Troubleshooting KS Energy Lithium Leisure Battery Discharge (7 Viewers)

[Tombola]

the KS energy app is very clunky at best I found, you have to keep opening and closing it
but if your engine is running on those screenshots above, you are not getting any input from the b2b at all.

 

[MichaelT]

the KS energy app is very clunky at best I found, you have to keep opening and closing it
but if your engine is running on those screenshots above, you are not getting any input from the b2b at all.

You have to go into the cells part then press disconnect and it's fine.

 

[helzie2020]

I have a Sterling B2B, similar to the OP's B2B, except that the input is 70A at about 12V but the output is suitable for charging a 48V battery bank. Some aspects of the setup are exactly the same, I think.

It is important when setting up the B2B that it is triggered by the D+ signal from the alternator. However this is not the default behaviour, and if you did a factory reset then the D+ triggering will need to be set up again (the default mode is a voltage trigger level, which is problematic with smart alternators). The green stripe across the front panel tells me that the firmware upgrade to enable D+ triggering has been implemented.

The procedure for setting it into the D+ triggering mode is detailed in the manual, and involves multiple presses of the flaky SETUP/ENTER and SELECT keys for the defined number of seconds. Very tedious and prone to error. Looking on the bright side, it only needs to be done once. Unless someone does a factory reset, of course.

The manual breezily suggests that the B2B will work fine straight out of the box, but that's not true if it's a smart alternator.

I can't see anything in the manual about triggering by the D+ signal.

There is a section about two operational modes: Default and Ignition Feed Mode. Is this what you mean?

I can see that we do have a line to the ignition feed on the B2B so presumably we should be using Ignition Feed Mode but I can't see how to change to that in the instruction manual.

We did another factory reset this morning and made sure that we selected the LiFePO4 charging profile. Everything seemed to be set up correctly as the various LEDs lit up as described in the manual. However, we didn't do anything about changing from Default to Ignition Feed Mode.

 

[autorouter]

On Page 7 of my manual, 'Guide To Buttons' table, there is something they call 'Pure Ignition Mode'. The B2B turns on when the voltage on that 'Ignition' wire exceeds about 12V, and turns off when it is less than about 12V. It will ignore any voltage rise in the starter battery voltage, which in a in a complex system like a motorhome could be caused by solar charging the starter battery etc. Also a smart alternator dials back the voltage when the starter battery is partly charged, and this voltage drop would cause the B2B to turn off if the voltage sensitive mode was used. Pure Ignition Mode ensures the B2B is definitely on when the engine is running, and definitely off when the engine stops, as required.

It looks like you have to press the SETUP/ENTER button for 'more than 40 seconds'. And if you release it inadvertently after 30 to 40 seconds it goes into 'OEM Lock Mode', and you have to repeat the procedure to get it out of OEM Lock - so be careful.

Just to clear up the difference between the D+ and the Ignition: when you turn on the key, the dash lights come on - that's the Ignition. When the engine starts, the alternator light goes off - that's the D+. It's best to trigger the B2B from the D+ rather than the Ignition, to ensure that the alternator is definitely on and producing charge when the B2B gets turned on. That's probably how it's wired already, people often confuse the Ignition and D+.

It's easy to check that with a meter, if you have one starting the engine and one looking at the meter to see when the voltage rises.

 

[helzie2020]

On Page 7 of my manual, 'Guide To Buttons' table, there is something they call 'Pure Ignition Mode'. The B2B turns on when the voltage on that 'Ignition' wire exceeds about 12V, and turns off when it is less than about 12V. It will ignore any voltage rise in the starter battery voltage, which in a in a complex system like a motorhome could be caused by solar charging the starter battery etc. Also a smart alternator dials back the voltage when the starter battery is partly charged, and this voltage drop would cause the B2B to turn off if the voltage sensitive mode was used. Pure Ignition Mode ensures the B2B is definitely on when the engine is running, and definitely off when the engine stops, as required.

It looks like you have to press the SETUP/ENTER button for 'more than 40 seconds'. And if you release it inadvertently after 30 to 40 seconds it goes into 'OEM Lock Mode', and you have to repeat the procedure to get it out of OEM Lock - so be careful.

Just to clear up the difference between the D+ and the Ignition: when you turn on the key, the dash lights come on - that's the Ignition. When the engine starts, the alternator light goes off - that's the D+. It's best to trigger the B2B from the D+ rather than the Ignition, to ensure that the alternator is definitely on and producing charge when the B2B gets turned on. That's probably how it's wired already, people often confuse the Ignition and D+.

It's easy to check that with a meter, if you have one starting the engine and one looking at the meter to see when the voltage rises.

Okay, I see that row in the table now.

Do I need the engine running to do those 40+ presses of the blue SETUP/ENTER button to enable pure ignition mode? Or is it enough to wake the BB from sleep mode by pressing either button?

Do I need to do another factory reset, then go into the initial set up mode to choose lithium again before I put the BB into pure ignition mode?

Thanks very much.

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[autorouter]

Do I need the engine running to do those 40+ presses of the blue SETUP/ENTER button to enable pure ignition mode? Or is it enough to wake the BB from sleep mode by pressing either button?

I don't think you need the engine running to do the setup. And it's not 40+ presses, it's one continuous press for 40+ seconds.

And if you let go accidentally after 30 seconds that will send it into OEM Lock mode, and you'll have to do another 30+ seconds to get it out of OEM Lock before you can alter any more settings. You'll notice that the button backlight comes on while you are pressing the button, so if you watch that, it helps you decide if it's been one continuous press or not. As I said, tedious and error-prone.

Do I need to do another factory reset, then go into the initial set up mode to choose lithium again before I put the BB into pure ignition mode?

I don't think another factory reset is necessary to set up the Pure Ignition Mode.

 

[helzie2020]

I don't think you need the engine running to do the setup. And it's not 40+ presses, it's one continuous press for 40+ seconds.

And if you let go accidentally after 30 seconds that will send it into OEM Lock mode, and you'll have to do another 30+ seconds to get it out of OEM Lock before you can alter any more settings. You'll notice that the button backlight comes on while you are pressing the button, so if you watch that, it helps you decide if it's been one continuous press or not. As I said, tedious and error-prone.


I don't think another factory reset is necessary to set up the Pure Ignition Mode.

Great, thanks. We’ll give that a try in the morning.

 

[helzie2020]

I didn’t have time to set up the Pure Ignition Mode this morning but I did it tonight.

So, I think that we have now finally correctly completed the whole reset procedure: the factory reset, changing the charging profile to lithium and setting up pure ignition mode.

Last night we were on EHU. The KS Energy app showed that the SOC increased up to 100% overnight then we had lots of bright sunshine today (yippee), which more or less managed to keep the SOC in equilibrium — but the battery did discharge whenever we were in shade.

We are on EHU again tonight so we will only get an idea of what is happening once there is less sunshine (which is forecast for Sunday). I doubt if we have solved the problem but I’ve learnt a bit more about the B2B. I had looked at the manual several times but it is SO badly written that I had given up.

I think we might just bite the bullet and replace the Sterling with the Victron Orion XS 50A B2B but that will have to wait until we are back in the UK.

 

[Tombola]

when you are unhooked from ehu, start the engine, even if you are getting low solar the b2b should increase the charge in the ks app.
or is possible flick the solar off or park in shade

 

[GoldenVision]

I think we might just bite the bullet and replace the Sterling with the Victron Orion XS 50A B2B

Is that unit voltage or ignition driven?

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[Pausim]

Is that unit voltage or ignition driven?

The Victron XS has a complex voltage algorithm that they claim works with smart alternators. However it can also be set to be triggered by other signals including D+.

 

[helzie2020]

when you are unhooked from ehu, start the engine, even if you are getting low solar the b2b should increase the charge in the ks app.
or is possible flick the solar off or park in shade

The B2B is definitely not charging the battery. We drove through several long tunnels today and the KS Energy app changed from Charging status to Discharging each time. When we came back out into the sunshine, the status changed to Charging, albeit quite slowly around 1 or 2A.

On EHU last night, the app showed that we were charging at 12.70A. First thing this morning with no sun, still on hook up, the app showed 100% SOC and only charging at 0.2A, presumably in float or absorption.

The lithium battery itself seems fine. It didn’t get below 50% ever. Solar and EHU charge it but not driving.

 

[autorouter]

I think you need to run some tests, with a multimeter testing the voltage at least. First check that the starter battery voltage is present at the B2B input, and the leisure battery voltage is present at the B2B output. You'll have to measure the battery voltages, and see if they are present at the B2B.

Next look at the 'Ignition' input (actually a D+ signal, not an ignition signal, as I detailed earlier). At the B2B the voltage should be about 12V to 14V when the engine is running,and about zero volts when the engine is stopped.

Another thing you could do is to apply about 12V to the B2B Ignition input. If you do that, it should start charging immediately, taking power from the starter battery and charging the leisure battery. Obviously not something you want to do for more than a minute or two, but it's OK to do this as a test to see if that Ignition input is working.

Measuring amps is a bit problematic with a multimeter, it involves disconnecting wires and wiring the meter into the circuit. It's a lot easier with a clamp meter. You just clip the clamp around one of the wires, no electrical connection or disconnection required, The clamp meter measures the magnetic field generated by the amps, and uses this to measure the amps flowing.

I use a Uni-T UN210E clamp meter. Note that not all clamp meters measure DC amps, a lot are designed to only measure AC amps as in domestic mains circuits. Even if the label says 'AC/DC Clamp Meter', they might only measure AC amps, but measure AC and DC voltage. You have to read the small print.

Once you have a clamp meter it's easy to measure the charging amps. Note that you might only get the full 60A charge if the battery is 80% or lower. Above 80% the charger might dial back the charging amps to a lower value.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UNI-T-Resistance-Capacitance-Multimeter-Temperature/dp/B00O1Q2HOQ/?tag=mhf04-21

Those tests will show whether the wiring connections are good or not. If they are OK, then presumably there's an error in the setup somewhere, or maybe a fault in the B2B itself.