Travel with water in tanks.

[6894]

Hi all,
Can anyone confirm as to wether it is safe to travel with tank full of half full? I'm wondering if the tank is constructed to withstand the forces and the weight of all that swishing water. Or should I be travelling empty and filling up at sites? It's an Elddis 194 btw.
I have looked at the Elddis website and there is a recommendation not to travel with water, but no reason given as to why. It just seems a bit daft if we're traveling for a few days without using designated sites.
Many thanks.

 

[G-RMPS]

Aren't we all? I am.

 

[fred_jb]

Some of the power would be used by overcoming the extra weight. .. .I think.

That is only true while accelerating, so it will take the heavier vehicle longer to reach top speed.

However, both vehicles will reach the same top speed which is achieved when the maximum output from the engine is totally used up in overcoming the resistance to movement. This resistance is primarily made up of air resistance and frictional losses which should be pretty much the same in both cases.

However, at the same speed the heavier vehicle will posess more kinetic energy so will take more effort to stop and will do more damage in an accident.

 

[Bramidan]

For any given throttle opening a more heavily loaded vehicle will accelerate slower than the same vehicle with less load, no need to floor it to see the difference.

Whilst I’m sure the theory is correct, any stats for the difference for 100kgs?

 

[fred_jb]

Whilst I’m sure the theory is correct, any stats for the difference for 100kgs?

Nope, my maths are not up to working that out these days, but there will definitely be an effect. You could get the stopwatch out and compare 0-60 times with and without if you want to quantify the difference, but would need to floor it in both cases!

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[bigtwin]

You don't see many formula 10cars with 100l water tanks strapped to them.

Would it have a lower top speed. That's a good question. I think it would as too speed is governed by the available power. Some of the power would be used by overcoming the extra weight. .. .I think.

In material terms, the power is used to overcome drag rather than weight.

However, both vehicles will reach the same top speed which is achieved when the maximum output from the engine is totally used up in overcoming the resistance to movement. This resistance is primarily made up of air resistance and frictional losses which should be pretty much the same in both cases.

Thanks; you saved me from typing that lot out.

Ian

 

[Jim]

Yeah. If they are 100kgs.

So a 15st stone passenger and you notice the acceleration and just can't quite get to top speed. On your push-bike I'd believe you.

Oh and don't stop for me if you see me hitch-hiking, you wouldn't cope, I'm more than 100kg and no baffles

 

[Bramidan]

Nope, my maths are not up to working that out these days, but there will definitely be an effect. You could get the stopwatch out and compare 0-60 times with and without if you want to quantify the difference, but would need to floor it in both cases!

I refer the honourable member to my previous answers.
A fully loaded motorhome apart from one with 100kgs of water and one without.
0 to 60, marginal and apart from a stopwatch would you actually notice it and why would you want to do it?
When was the last time you tried to go from 0 to 60 in the shortest possible time?
I eventually get there on the motorway, with my cruise control set and of course on Eco setting!

 

[fred_jb]

For comparison it is relatively easy to calculate the kinetic energy in both cases with an online calculator.

As an example, this puts a 3500 kg vehicle doing 100 km/h as possessing 1350.3 kilojoules of energy with a 3400 kg vehicle having 1311.7 kilojoules at the same speed.

The difference is about 3%, but I'm not sure how that translates to acceleration.

 

[busbuddy]

The boss carries at least 100kg in her handbag, cant say it makes much difference to the handling no matter where she chucks it in the van....as long as it's not at my head

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[fred_jb]

When was the last time you tried to go from 0 to 60 in the shortest possible time?

Never, but it is an accepted method of comparison. It was only a tongue in cheek suggestion of course!

 

[dunnah01]

For any given throttle opening a more heavily loaded vehicle will accelerate slower than the same vehicle with less load, no need to floor it to see the difference.

Lewis Hamilton may notice an extra 1 sec/mile carrying 100l fuel compared to the Uber light qualifying weight but not sure any of us mortals would

 

[Bramidan]

Busbuddy you are exactly the man for the job.
Your task is to convince her not to take her handbag so you can give a factual report to all reading this thread.
Good luck with that and let us all know what casualty department you will be attending.

 

[fred_jb]

Lewis Hamilton may notice an extra 1 sec/mile carrying 100l fuel compared to the Uber light qualifying weight but not sure any of us mortals would

The point is that additional weight reduces acceleration and increases fuel consumption, whether you notice it or not. It may be marginal but it is real - you can't beat physics!

Some may want to optimise their vehicle loading if they can do so with minimal or no adverse consequences for usability, others may not be bothered. Entirely a matter of personal preference.

 

[dunnah01]

The point is that additional weight reduces acceleration and increases fuel consumption, whether you notice it or not. It may be marginal but it is real - you can't beat physics!

Some may want to optimise their vehicle loading if they can do so with minimal or no adverse consequences for usability, others may not be bothered. Entirely a matter of personal preference.

I often wear my contact lenses rather than my glasses to improve my fuel economy and acceleration

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[jonasw19]

We had the water tank break loose on our Autosleeper Suffolk, though it did not stop us travelling full. It was not the only thing, the amusing drop down cupboards fell off the wall, the bathroom door too. Not well put together for Portugal and Spain.
The worst road encountered, between Mauchline and Sorn the B743.
I have also wrecked the balance of our motorhome by substituting LiFePo batteries, AND eating too much, I however still travel under max at all times. When I am particularly adventurous, I sit in the passenger seat whilst Mrs ASW19 drives, a whole 20kg imbalance.
Whilst the physics of each KG is unarguable, I cant get excited about 2%. I can not measure it meaningfully or even devise a real world repeatable experiment to observe any effects.
I can however dance on the head of a pin with the best.

 

[John and Jo]

Always use our freshwater tank for tea... don't fancy using the grey

Earl grey

 

[gpat]

So a 15st stone passenger and you notice the acceleration and just can't quite get to top speed. On your push-bike I'd believe you.

Oh and don't stop for me if you see me hitch-hiking, you wouldn't cope, I'm more than 100kg and no baffles

Perhaps not. It would weigh on my mind though

 

[busbuddy]

Busbuddy you are exactly the man for the job.
Your task is to convince her not to take her handbag so you can give a factual report to all reading this thread.
Good luck with that and let us all know what casualty department you will be attending.

Oh hell no.....I have bupa and my funeral is already paid for but that's a risk I ain't taking


I have driven stuff that does does 0-100mph in under a second and other stuff with a big fat caterpillar engine that will pull 60 tons up to 50mph after changing gear through a couple of gearboxes and about an entire county.
Yes...I can tell if my van is 4 ton or 3.5 ton and I can 'feel' if that weight is in the van or the garage but as to whether the extra weight is in the water tank or in kegs of vodka
Most people can 'feel' when the boot of the car is rammed full of shopping and tell the difference between buying 8 bags of coal or the weekly shop but I drive the van for leisure so couldn't care less about the 0-60 and tend to drive it like I did the trucks.......keep the momentum and lose the gearshifts

 

[Oldrat]

For any given throttle opening a more heavily loaded vehicle will accelerate slower than the same vehicle with less load, no need to floor it to see the difference.

Must talk to ‘er indoors to see if she’ll go on a diet

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[nicholsong]

I have driven 7.5t flatbed trucks empty and with 2t of steel on board. I noticed the difference, but 100kg?

 

[Bobbejaan]

So one extra person in your car and you guys are sweating and gripping the wheel then.

I certainly tend to sweat more when I'm in the passenger seat and my wife's the person gripping the steering wheel.

 

[Dolmen]

My van weighs around 3100kg. 100kg of water onboard equals around 3%, does it make a difference, never felt it, however, I weigh 92kg, I drank 5 pints during the football last night which also equals around the same 3%. Once again I couldn't tell the difference, apparently my wife could. So it seems its all rather subjective

 

[G-RMPS]

How do you measure acceleration time with a Confortmatic? My van stops when it changes from first to second, so when do I start counting from?

 

[bigtwin]

so when do I start counting from?

Yesterday?

Ian

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[gpat]

I have driven 7.5t flatbed trucks empty and with 2t of steel on board. I noticed the difference, but 100kg?

My van weighs around 3100kg. 100kg of water onboard equals around 3%, does it make a difference, never felt it, however, I weigh 92kg, I drank 5 pints during the football last night which also equals around the same 3%. Once again I couldn't tell the difference, apparently my wife could. So it seems its all rather subjective

Speaking for me only, I have never said you would notice a difference. I keep saying that there is a difference. It may be imperceptible, but its there. Fact

Using the example of taking Jim with us in the van. If Jim weighs 100kg and he was part of the party and entertained us with his repartee. In addition to this if he stayed with us in the South of Spain and we enjoyed his company then even more of a bonus. 100kg carried well worth it.

However if Jim just sat in the back, not moving and not speaking thus contributing nothing other than occasionally flushing our wastes into the loo and rinsing out a few cups......it would become less of a value. This would be made even worse if we then found that when we reached our destination, Jim was already there, in fact there were Jims all over then I would then curse carting him over thousands of metres of inclines.

 

[dunnah01]

How do you measure acceleration time with a Confortmatic? My van stops when it changes from first to second, so when do I start counting from?

Mark it on the calendar

 

[eddie]

Thank God for MHF!

If it weren’t for the tireless work of some, I’d never of appreciated just how much danger I’ve been in using my camper.

Since I was 28 I’ve been recklessly Gung Ho about my safety

This picture, our last camper is a fine example of just how close I’ve been.

This is us at Catalan Village, close to the Spanish border.

Staying on a motorway Aire, which apparently is akin to suicide

You’ll notice the beer fridge is slid out

You’ll further notice I’m clutching a bottle of Fizz to celebrate meeting up at the start of a trip

Eagle eyed amongst you will notice I’m wearing flip flops, which I drive in

Towing a massive trailer!

And what you can’t see, is the larger capacity, factory fitted fresh water tank, which like Jim I ‘force fed’ till
bulging to give us a bit extra capacity

While I’m confessing we also, make food when driving, use the loo, get drinks and snacks and when tired the passenger goes and lays down on the bed, as yes, shock horror, Lyn my wife is a maverick, and looks in pity at women who “claim to drive” but “Of course I don’t drive the motorhome”

Forgive me Father, for I have sinned, continually for 34 years

 

[Mr porky]

We always travel with a full tank of freshwater, this isn't our issue.
The issue is the copious amounts of wine and beer we have to use to balance out any misalignment of loading the water in the tank can cause.
It's very difficult to get it right, not forgetting that sparkling wine bottles weigh more.
It's a hard life

 

[bigtwin]

It may be imperceptible, but its there

I would then curse carting him over thousands of metres of inclines.

Cursing over something that’s imperceptible is a waste of energy that could be put to good use, like drinking beer.

Ian

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[OttovanKamper]

Hands up how many people sterilise their shower head at home........

At work (ship) the shower heads had to be soaked in bleach solution every 3 months.
The treatment for drinking water has been stepped up and it is UV and silver ‘filter’ now to prevent bacteria, oh and it is still required to have a level that of free chlorine in water at taps.