Travel with water in tanks.

[6894]

Hi all,
Can anyone confirm as to wether it is safe to travel with tank full of half full? I'm wondering if the tank is constructed to withstand the forces and the weight of all that swishing water. Or should I be travelling empty and filling up at sites? It's an Elddis 194 btw.
I have looked at the Elddis website and there is a recommendation not to travel with water, but no reason given as to why. It just seems a bit daft if we're traveling for a few days without using designated sites.
Many thanks.

 

[Rozzer]

Out of interest, any Funsters ever been done for being over payload?

 

[Minxy]

Have tank half full ,drinking water in separate container ,fill up when we get to destination.( you can only drink tank water if you clean tank and pipes regularily )

You can drink it anyway.

We've not cleaned the water system on our MHs for years, we just empty when we get back from a trip and give it a quick flush through before filling for the new trip just before we go. Never had any issues ever and we use it for drinks etc.

 

[nicholsong]

I have never thought about NOT filling the tank, knowing that it is full when weighing and I am under max, so I am surprised at the length of this thread.

 

[fred_jb]

I have never thought about NOT filling the tank, knowing that it is full when weighing and I am under max, so I am surprised at the length of this thread.

Well this thread has shown that there are potentially good reasons, other than payload considerations, for not driving with a full tank. Having now been appraised of those considerations you may not change your policy, but others may benefit by doing so, in which case the thread is not a complete waste of time.

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[bigtwin]

Well this thread has shown that there are potentially good reasons,

Are you able to summarise them?

Ian

 

[gpat]

I have never thought about NOT filling the tank, knowing that it is full when weighing and I am under max, so I am surprised at the length of this thread.

It's because not everyone agrees with you.

And being different is what makes us what we are.

 

[VXman]

Thats interesting about useing your tank water for tea. I have wondered if people do or how many dont

Always - tea, coffee, cooking generally. Brushing teeth too.

 

[VXman]

A few thoughts about Fresh water tank usage
If you are motorhoming/ campervanning with babies or young children consider what change in water types may have on their metabolism if you live in soft water area's such as Wales and travel to a hard water area such as the South east the sudden change in water may be a cause for unexplained tummy troubles. I found this out when my children were younger through travelling back and for - Wales and Kent, once we started carrying home water everywhere tummy problems while camping ceased.
My previous life was an engineer at sea, so we had to look after our own water, what's to look after you may ask quite a lot. Any hoses, connectors filling tubes or containers are a potential contamination source. If any items are left with a drop of water in and are stored in say your van garage where the heating boiler is the garage ambient air temp can easily rise to 25° C, this is the magic temperature when any air-borne legionella bacteria become capable of becoming active. Water chlorination does suppress this but the residue amount in water supply systems from the major companies soon disappears when exposed to air i.e. filling a water container. I normally flush through such items 3 times a season with water and some bleach (just enough so you can just smell it in the water) then wash out the items 2 or 3 times with clean water until you cannot smell the bleach. Cheap bleach with do it's all Sodium Hypochlorite anyway, this was part of our planned maintenance on ships and records were checked by occasional port state inspectors. Tanks are another matter even those on vans have a large inspection cap for a reason, the tanks always have a slimy build up on surfaces this initially isn't a problem because the magic 25° C is not reached in a storage tank but a least once a year you should sterilize your whole system i.e. Tank, pump, pipes and taps, preferably at early spring before the camping season starts. The large opening allows you to get a hose in the tank and give all the surfaces a good spraying before sterilizing. To sterilize put 250ml of cheap bleach into the tank then fill your tank right to overflowing, whilst filling open all the taps, shower, boiler etc and leave to flow until you can smell the chlorine in the water coming out. Shut off all taps and once overflowing tank shut off and leave everything sealed up overnight. In the morning drain out entire system open anti frost valve as well. System should now be refilled and flushed at least 3 times after which you should not be able to smell chlorine ( if you can just smell or taste the chlorine flush again). The system is now ready for the season and you can safely drink the tank water. This is the system adopted on ships and I've done the same for the past 8 years in various vans and no-one has ever had a problem drinking on board water. You can of course ask for this to be done as part of the annual habitation checks but beware of the cost!!
Hope this helps anyone wanting to keep their on-board water safe

Change of water may affect kids stomachs but it's also a good way of building up a bit of resilience. I used to be wary of drinking water in foreign countries and it really affected me. After living abroad in the far east and travelling a lot I built up resistance and can drink anything anywhere now with little trouble.

 

[Barriesimpson]

That's the big bugbear with low payload in modern vans. I had a shock recently when I put my Van onto Local Farmers new digital weighbridge Full Fuel tank +2 full 11kg Cylinders + Full 100ltr of Water. + driver 85kg result 40kg overweight no room for wife!!! or goodies !!

So you left her behind then. That was lucky

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[nicholsong]

It's because not everyone agrees with you.

And being different is what makes us what we are.

But the ones on here who also travel with full water probably would never have posted about it if somebody had not raised the question.

Anyway a lot of posts were about drinking and purity of the water not about the quantity carried.

 

[fred_jb]

Are you able to summarise them?

Ian

There are two that stand out for me.

Firstly weight distribution and it's effect on vehicle handling and ultimately safety. Carrying 100kg entirely on the extreme right side and partly high up above the wheel arch as is the case for many PVCs, such as those from the Hymer group, is not ideal and is warned against in the vehicle handbook.

Secondly it seems from comments in this thread that many manufacturers, particularly those fitting underslung tanks do not specify the fixings of these tanks to withstand the forces generated by hitting serious road bumps while fully filled, and likewise warn against travelling fully filled. This is again a safety consideration, as a fully filled tank detaching when hitting a bad pothole could be extremely dangerous.

Obviously everyone has to make their own judgement on their appetite for risk, but at least this thread has provided some food for thought.

 

[fred_jb]

Just as a further thought on this. Travelling with a full tank, when the vehicle manufacturer expressly warns against doing so, could in extreme cases result in an insurance payout being declined or reduced in the event of an accident.

 

[dunnah01]

There are two that stand out for me.

Firstly weight distribution and it's effect on vehicle handling and ultimately safety. Carrying 100kg entirely on the extreme right side and partly high up above the wheel arch as is the case for many PVCs, such as those from the Hymer group, is not ideal and is warned against in the vehicle handbook.

Secondly it seems from comments in this thread that many manufacturers, particularly those fitting underslung tanks do not specify the fixings of these tanks to withstand the forces generated by hitting serious road bumps while fully filled, and likewise warn against travelling fully filled. This is again a safety consideration, as a fully filled tank detaching when hitting a bad pothole could be extremely dangerous.

Obviously everyone has to make their own judgement on their appetite for risk, but at least this thread has provided some food for thought.

The weight of a tank is about the same as carrying a passenger so not a problem.
If the tank fixings aren't designed to support a full tank in any reasonable situation then the van isn't fit for purpose and dangerous. The stipulation about not carrying full tanks is only to allow the manufacturers to cheat the payload and 3500kg system

 

[Bramidan]

So 100 kg on the extreme right hand is not ideal for handling.
What about if you have two “large” passengers in the back of a car?
Is this different to a motorhome built on a commercial vehicle chassis used for deliveries and as builders vans?
The tank fixings I can understand.
Dunnah01 we crossed!

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[fred_jb]

So 100 kg on the extreme right hand is not ideal for handling.
What about if you have two “large” passengers in the back of a car?
Is this different to a motorhome built on a commercial vehicle chassis used for deliveries and as builders vans?
The tank fixings I can understand.
Dunnah01 we crossed!

Well rear passengers tend to be lower and more centralised but still have an effect. The many tragic instances of cars with four or five youngsters on board crashing on bends probably has something to do with inexperienced drivers not making allowances for the adverse affect on handling of additional weight.

The main difference in handling between my Ducato based van and previous VW conversions is the feeling of being less stable on bends and in particular I believe the effect of a full right side water tank in my van can be felt as a tendency to understeer on left hand bends. Maybe it's just my imagination, but I now travel with the tank only partially filled! In any case the handbook says 25 litres and this is on a van with loads of payload so I don't think it is solely about total weight, though that may come into it on some vans.

 

[Apacheman]

Once again a post where there are different points of view. As I said in a previous post water or no water depends on where we are going and planning to do. There are advantages to both. There can’t be a one size fits all and it’s good we all do things differently.

 

[Hedgewitch]

Carrying 100kg entirely on the extreme right side and partly high up above the wheel arch as is the case for many PVCs, such as those from the Hymer group, is not ideal and is warned against in the vehicle handbook.

OK, "bear with occasionally small brain" here, so be gentle with me: is fred_jb saying that a company as experienced as Hymer (and perhaps other major motorhome manufacturers) are expressly going against the advice given by the chassis manufacturer?

I am currently looking at a van from the Pilote Group (who have been very successfully making motorhomes for 50 years or so . . .) which has a 110 L water tank on one side, and on the other side:
a Truma heater (16kg)
space for two 13kg gas (25kg each = 50kg when full)
two 110 Ah AGM batteries (approximately 30 kg each = 60kg)

Seems pretty well balanced to me . . .

 

[fred_jb]

OK, "bear with occasionally small brain" here, so be gentle with me: is fred_jb saying that a company as experienced as Hymer (and perhaps other major motorhome manufacturers) are expressly going against the advice given by the chassis manufacturer?

I am currently looking at a van from the Pilote Group (who have been very successfully making motorhomes for 50 years or so . . .) which has a 110 L water tank on one side, and on the other side:
a Truma heater (16kg)
space for two 13kg gas (25kg each = 50kg when full)
two 110 Ah AGM batteries (approximately 30 kg each = 60kg)

Seems pretty well balanced to me . . .

That is a good point in that it may be that some layouts are such that they could allow a full water tank to not present an unbalanced load.

However, in my case although I have two 5kg gas cylinders in the locker at the left rear, the two AGM leisure batteries are under the driver's seat which is RHD, so these are on the same side as the 100L water tank. I do try to put heavier items of luggage on the left side but there is a limit to what that can achieve. The van has the classic EU layout with sliding door on the right so this also puts extra weight on that side. The rest of the layout is probably fairly even with bathroom and dinette on the left balanced out by kitchen and fridge on the right.

 

[gpat]

The weight of a tank is about the same as carrying a passenger so not a problem.
If the tank fixings aren't designed to support a full tank in any reasonable situation then the van isn't fit for purpose and dangerous. The stipulation about not carrying full tanks is only to allow the manufacturers to cheat the payload and 3500kg system

100kg is quite a big guy

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[poppycamper]

100kg is quite a big guy

Not if "big boned"

 

[Clive Beeza]

That's the big bugbear with low payload in modern vans. I had a shock recently when I put my Van onto Local Farmers new digital weighbridge Full Fuel tank +2 full 11kg Cylinders + Full 100ltr of Water. + driver 85kg result 40kg overweight no room for wife!!! or goodies !!

try leaving the wife at home to cut the lawns and see to the garden
Oh! and you should also consider living in the van full time

 

[Clive Beeza]

You can drink it anyway.

We've not cleaned the water system on our MHs for years, we just empty when we get back from a trip and give it a quick flush through before filling for the new trip just before we go. Never had any issues ever and we use it for drinks etc.

do exactly the same,
empty out any water left when we get home
on next trip brim the tank to the top,
open the drain again, and refill
never has any problems
and you are drinking water you live with at home every day

 

[Dolmen]

Lots of interesting thoughts above. How important is the sloshing effect of a part filled tank, say 75l in a 100l tank (which is typical of how I travel). Every time I brake does the 75kg all slosh forward testing the fixtures, and then back again, presumably thousands of times on each journey or is the sloshing effect neutralised in some way? Like others. never had a problem over the last 10 years, just wondering if the sloshing effect is anything to worry about

 

[Paul Wilkins]

Oops!

Ian

150lts of Mercury perhaps…

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[LittleGreyCat]

This reminds me that our Rapido has an extra drain tap on the fresh water tank to empty all but the last 20 litres.
No idea if it works.
We nearly always use fully serviced sites so a half full tank lasts us a very long time!
Memo to self: weighbridge.

 

[DDJC]

Empty, empty, empty. Always drain clean, grey and black before travelling.
But then we nearly always use sites and have bottled water in the trailer.

Once we have sold the children (offers?), we will have the weight and will probably travel with a quarter full tank.

 

[bigtwin]

Lots of interesting thoughts above. How important is the sloshing effect of a part filled tank, say 75l in a 100l tank (which is typical of how I travel). Every time I brake does the 75kg all slosh forward testing the fixtures, and then back again, presumably thousands of times on each journey or is the sloshing effect neutralised in some way? Like others. never had a problem over the last 10 years, just wondering if the sloshing effect is anything to worry about

What do you think happens with your fuel tank?

150lts of Mercury perhaps…

It’d certainly be a bit closer.

Ian

 

[Landy Andy]

Lots of interesting thoughts above. How important is the sloshing effect of a part filled tank, say 75l in a 100l tank (which is typical of how I travel). Every time I brake does the 75kg all slosh forward testing the fixtures, and then back again, presumably thousands of times on each journey or is the sloshing effect neutralised in some way? Like others. never had a problem over the last 10 years, just wondering if the sloshing effect is anything to worry about

I’d prefer to have a completely full tank than a part full tank. Due to the sloshing about.

 

[The POPs]

Hi all,
Can anyone confirm as to wether it is safe to travel with tank full of half full? I'm wondering if the tank is constructed to withstand the forces and the weight of all that swishing water. Or should I be travelling empty and filling up at sites? It's an Elddis 194 btw.
I have looked at the Elddis website and there is a recommendation not to travel with water, but no reason given as to why. It just seems a bit daft if we're traveling for a few days without using designated sites.
Many thanks.

Personal opinion

Hi all,
Can anyone confirm as to wether it is safe to travel with tank full of half full? I'm wondering if the tank is constructed to withstand the forces and the weight of all that swishing water. Or should I be travelling empty and filling up at sites? It's an Elddis 194 btw.
I have looked at the Elddis website and there is a recommendation not to travel with water, but no reason given as to why. It just seems a bit daft if we're traveling for a few days without using designated sites.
Many thanks.

1 LT of Water equals 1 KG
Fill your water tank and do your figures + full tank of fuel.
My case with a a 4.2 ton Carthago and Fiat Ducato 150 Multi Jet Deisel 2.3
Full tank of water equals gutless wonder
Small amount of water and my buss flies.

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[Jim]

Personal opinion

1 LT of Water equals 1 KG
Fill your water tank and do your figures + full tank of fuel.
My case with a a 4.2 ton Carthago and Fiat Ducato 150 Multi Jet Deisel 2.3
Full tank of water equals gutless wonder
Small amount of water and my buss flies.

Muse be scary when after you've filled up and start making your way to your pitch, all that water sloshing around.