Towing a car on a trailer

[Lorryman100]

FWIW In my case it does. Also why would you want a cursory inspection turn into a possible investigation and a weigh in if the plated weight of the trailer and the Moho GVM exceeded the plated GTW? I have no doubts that on inspection I am 100% legal in my plated weights and for me that’s all I need for my peace of mind. Plus the 40 odd years of towing from tractors to arctics helps in my understanding of what the inspectors look for JMTW

 

[pappajohn]

think I would have to tow it backwards as otherwise the rear wheel diff would get very hot and I would tot up a lot of mileage!

Your mistaking an A frame for a recovery dolly.
A dolly is a pivoting wheeled A frame on which one axle is fixed..... Can be used to tow backwards.
An A frame is merely a towbar and all four wheels are on the ground.
Due to the cars steering geometry it can't tow backwards.
The diff won't get any hotter than if it was being driven, even possibly cooler as less load is applied to the drive train

 

[gus-lopez]

Am I correct in thinking that if the actual loaded weight of the motorhome is less than 4500kg I can use the remainder for the trailer and car up to1500kg?

Yes.

If your combined plated weight is 5500 and the vehicle 4500 how have you arrived at a towing allowance of 1500kg

Every kg under the MH actula weight against plated weight can go on the trailer up to the tow bar & trailer capacity as long as overall MTW is not exceeded

If it is possible I think I would have to tow it backwards as otherwise the rear wheel diff would get very hot and I would tot up a lot of mileage!

You can't do that with an A frame

The weight that can be towed is the difference between the GVW which is 4500 and the plated train weight which is 5500 so where does it say that the vehicle can tow 1500kg.

As above .If you could reduce the MH weight by stripping it out every kg extra can go on the trailer up to the tow bar & trailer weight & MTW

So if Mr Alco tells Mr Autotrail that his lightweight chassis is strong enough to tow 1000kg I don’t think that I would be towing 1500kg with it.

Mr.Alco knows this & has to ensure that if I strip the 4500kg GVW Motorhome out to a maximum 2000kgs GVW so I can fit a 3,5T towbar & remain under the 5500kg MTW his chassis will be capable of towing it.

It is the plated weights that DVSA and the Police use for checking loaded vehicle weights (Axle, GVW and GTW).

They tend to do that out of laziness. It isn't legal. The unit as a whole must be weighed & then weighed seperately.

Maximum Train Weight less the ACTUAL weight of the motorhome?

Yes this is the correct method.

Transit 350 Van is 3500 GVW and 5500 GTW

Unless they are plated different in the Uk my 330Medium wheel base had an unladen weight (UL) of 1737kgs with a towing capacity of 2450kgs braked?

** I meant to say that the OP would do well to remember the Minors inherent flaw in bottom link going .I certainly wouldn't want to drag one around & even think of reversing one as it would be putting huge strain on the old suspension**

 

[emjaiuk]

I've seen some confusing threads............!

Simple question. LEAVING ASIDE for the sake of argument any physical limitations imposed by Base Vehicle/Convertor/Tow Bar Manufacturer

Is the FORMULA for calculating the maximum towable weight either

Maximum Train Weight less the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT shown on the MH convertors plate
OR
Maximum Train Weight less the ACTUAL weight of the motorhome?

Instinct tells me it's the GVW that's relevant, but I don't know for certain. I certainly understand that for A frame towing it's the GVW of the toad that authorities use when checking the weight of the 'trailer'.

Answering my own question, from the link provided earlier to the DfT Towing advice website,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...towing-a-trailer-with-a-car-or-van-the-basics

my highlighting

'Where the sum of the maximum plated weights of the towing vehicle and of the trailer added together exceed the plated GCW of the towing vehicle, this is not a problem as long as the ‘actual’ weights of the vehicle and trailer (which may not be fully laden at the time) do not exceed the plated GCW.'

BUT

Driving licence regulations are based on the PLATED Maximum Weight of both vehicle and trailer

For example

Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997
You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).
You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer is not more than 3,500kg.

So in theory you could have a vehicle/trailer combination which is legal on the road but your licence may not entitle you to drive it.

 

[cmcardle75]

I've seen some confusing threads............!

Simple question. LEAVING ASIDE for the sake of argument any physical limitations imposed by Base Vehicle/Convertor/Tow Bar Manufacturer

Is the FORMULA for calculating the maximum towable weight either

Maximum Train Weight less the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT shown on the MH convertors plate
OR
Maximum Train Weight less the ACTUAL weight of the motorhome?

Instinct tells me it's the GVW that's relevant, but I don't know for certain. I certainly understand that for A frame towing it's the GVW of the toad that authorities use when checking the weight of the 'trailer'.

Vehicle weight limits (NOT LICENCE LIMITS!!!) are based on actual weights. So the maximum trailer weight is the Gross Train Weight (also called Gross Combination Weight) minus the ACTUAL weight of the towing vehicle. Note that the MAM of the trailer can exceed this value quite legally.

To find out if it is legal, there are just some simple checks:
Does the towing vehicle weigh more than its MAM?
Do any of the axle loading exceed their permitted maximum?
Does the static downward pressure on the towbar exceed its maximum?
Does the trailer weigh more than its MAM?
Does the total actual weight of the towing vehicle and trailer weigh more than the GTW?

So an example: you have a 3500kg MAM vehicle with a 5500kg GTW. The vehicle actually weighs 3000kg. You can tow a 3500kg MAM trailer provided it actually weighs less than 2500kg on the day.

Note that the vehicle manufacturer may also specify a "maximum braked trailer weight". This does not have the force of law and is just a recommendation. However, exceeding it may be considered as evidence of dangerous loading, although it is not an offence in itself. They'd have to prove it was actually dangerous (i.e. towing a 3500kg full (not semi) trailer behind a Transit that had been stripped down to only weigh 1500kg might be within GTW, but would clearly have unacceptable driving characteristics. However, it is the dangerous condition that is illegal, not merely exceeding the manufacturer's recommendation.

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[Speve]

(i.e. towing a 3500kg full (not semi) trailer behind a Transit that had been stripped down to only weigh 1500kg might be within GTW, but would clearly have unacceptable driving characteristics. However, it is the dangerous condition that is illegal, not merely exceeding the manufacturer's recommendation

Here’s all the info you need :

Towing with a car

Towing trailers, caravans and horseboxes with a car, including the weight and size limits, and what licence you need to have

www.gov.uk

 

[pappajohn]

Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997
You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg).
You can also tow heavier trailers if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer is not more than 3,500kg.

And if you passed before 1st Jan 1997 as I'm sure most here did?

EDIT.... Just the same for all years

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Indeed you would...AND illegal
2400kg van plus 3400kg trailer equals 5800kg. You say GTW was 5500kg????

sorry meant 3100kg trailer

 

[bigtwin]

Here’s all the info you need :

Towing with a car

Towing trailers, caravans and horseboxes with a car, including the weight and size limits, and what licence you need to have

www.gov.uk

That’s not the first time, nor the second time, that link has been posted on this thread.

Ian

 

[Conal]

Right, just returned from a bike ride to the storage yard.

Photos below but no description of what they refer to, and no mention of 5500

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[Conal]

pappajohn and gus-lopez
Yes, I was confusing an A frame with a dollie. Even though I have upgraded the suspension I would not tow it on all four wheels so that option is out.

 

[Phill D]

asa you have already stated that is
1. Front 2100
2, rear 2500
GVW 4500
max train weight 6000

sop max tow if you are at gvw 4500 is 1500 or more if the actual gvw is less than 4500

 

[Speve]

That’s not the first time, nor the second time, that link has been posted on this thread.

Ian

Oh well I suppose they’ll get the message soon it’s pretty straight forward to me

 

[Conal]

Phill D
So the brochure is incorrect in so much as I can load the motorhome up to its maximum 4500kg and tow a trailer and car with a combination weight of up to 1500.
I will try to keep weights down but one of the reasons we bought a bigger motorhome is so we would not have to worry about payload.
I am sure I can find a light trailer.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Conal]

Landy Andy
Thanks, will try the Weigh Bridge

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[pappajohn]

Yes. Alko have increased the gross weight by 250kg BUT reduced the train weight by the same 250kg.

 

[Phill D]

Phill D
So the brochure is incorrect in so much as I can load the motorhome up to its maximum 4500kg and tow a trailer and car with a combination weight of up to 1500.
I will try to keep weights down but one of the reasons we bought a bigger motorhome is so we would not have to worry about payload.
I am sure I can find a light trailer.
Thanks for your help.

yep as long as the total van weight is not more than 4500 and each individual axle particularly the rear is not over its max

 

[denisejoe]

Don’t forget axel weight on rear axle

 

[cmcardle75]

Yes. Alko have increased the gross weight by 250kg BUT reduced the train weight by the same 250kg.

Yes, the Alko plate takes precedence over the Fiat plate.

 

[cmcardle75]

Phill D
So the brochure is incorrect in so much as I can load the motorhome up to its maximum 4500kg and tow a trailer and car with a combination weight of up to 1500.
I will try to keep weights down but one of the reasons we bought a bigger motorhome is so we would not have to worry about payload.
I am sure I can find a light trailer.
Thanks for your help.

Remember that only the actual weight of the trailer matters. You could buy one with a 3500kg MAM (actually quite normal for a flat bed car transporter trailer) and it would be fine legally. The only thing that matters is the physical weight of the trailer plus the physical weight of the car. Together they need to be under 1500kg if you want to load the motorhome to 4500kg. There is no need to downplate the trailer to 1500kg.

BTW, although you could reduce your motorhome loading and allow extra trailer weight, I would not advise this, as the Alko chassis is designed to be lightweight and is not very strong for towing and you don't want to overload it with a heavy trailer that could bend the chassis under heavy braking or a light knock.

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[Conal]

cmcardle75
Thanks for the advice. I will try to by the lightest trailer available to keep the strain on the engine to a mimimum

 

[minesapint]

Hi everyone,
I hope those more knowledgeable can help me.
Recently, whilst visiting Whitby and Scarborough my wife injured her foot and we had to cut our trip short as walking in such hilly area became too painful. I t is not improving and we are both “getting on a bit” 66 Mand65 respectively so
We are now considering towing Amy hobby car.
After reading many posts here and elsewhere we are considering both a “A” frame and a micro maxi trailer.
Our first step had been to book into Watling Engineers to have a tow bar fitted. We have chosen an option that allows either method of towing.
Now to the questions.
Our Autotrail Delaware had a max weight of 4500kg, 1500kg towing capacity, and for the combined motor home and towing 5500kg.
Am I correct in thinking that if the actual loaded weight of the motorhome is less than 4500kg I can use the remainder for the trailer and car up to1500kg?
Secondly, my car is a Morris Minor convertible with a kerbside weight of around 770kg. The term is confusing because it could include a 75kg for a driver, or it may not. I understand the micro maxi trailer is around 400kg - give a combined weight around 1170kg, 170kg above the potential weight I might reach.
There are other factors I do not fully understand-
The tow bar will be around 35kg but most of that weight will be 2 metres from Rear wheels. The trailer may need extra parts that can’t be stored in the motorhome - winch, coupling etc... I can store the car spare wheel and rear seat in the motorhome, and leave it low on fuel.
Do you feel this approach is feasible?

 

[Wack]

cmcardle75
Thanks for the advice. I will try to by the lightest trailer available to keep the strain on the engine to a mimimum

If it's the 3.0 iveco engine it'll be fine, I had one for my job , put 350,000 miles on it in 5 years , mostly pulling a 3.5t trailer at 7t train weight , no breakdowns or problems with it, the camchain got a bit rattly on startup but fine once running for a few seconds , oil changed every 10,000 miles , I don't believe this 2 year 20-25,000 mile servicing is a good thing at all

 

[minesapint]

Hi everyone,
I hope those more knowledgeable can help me.
Recently, whilst visiting Whitby and Scarborough my wife injured her foot and we had to cut our trip short as walking in such hilly area became too painful. I t is not improving and we are both “getting on a bit” 66 Mand65 respectively so
We are now considering towing Amy hobby car.
After reading many posts here and elsewhere we are considering both a “A” frame and a micro maxi trailer.
Our first step had been to book into Watling Engineers to have a tow bar fitted. We have chosen an option that allows either method of towing.
Now to the questions.
Our Autotrail Delaware had a max weight of 4500kg, 1500kg towing capacity, and for the combined motor home and towing 5500kg.
Am I correct in thinking that if the actual loaded weight of the motorhome is less than 4500kg I can use the remainder for the trailer and car up to1500kg?
Secondly, my car is a Morris Minor convertible with a kerbside weight of around 770kg. The term is confusing because it could include a 75kg for a driver, or it may not. I understand the micro maxi trailer is around 400kg - give a combined weight around 1170kg, 170kg above the potential weight I might reach.
There are other factors I do not fully understand-
The tow bar will be around 35kg but most of that weight will be 2 metres from Rear wheels. The trailer may need extra parts that can’t be stored in the motorhome - winch, coupling etc... I can store the car spare wheel and rear seat in the motorhome, and leave it low on fuel.
Do you feel this approach is feasible?

Hi we looked at both options but the A frame option won, for a few reasons. 1- you will need to store the trailer, 2 - The weight issues with a trailer and all of its bits and pieces. 3 - Storage of the trailer on sites. 4 - The pain of loading and unloading the car. We went for an A Frame from TowAframe it is light weight stows easily in the boot of the car and takes only a few minutes to put on. It has an electronic braking system which works on all four wheels, and technically is far ahead of the trailer override system and it can be reversed, which most trailer override systems will not allow unless you get out and apply the reversing lock to the tow hitch.
We have used this all season and are very happy with it.

 

[tonyidle]

3 - Storage of the trailer on sites. 4 - The pain of loading and unloading the car.

Where necessary the trailer is my car park on site.

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[PrettyandFluffy]

I think you're several leaps ahead of where you need to be. First, get your wife fit again with (private) physio etc - this will take time and money and she will have to be diligent about doing the exercises, following advice etc. This makes the most sense irrespective of travel plans. Secondly, in the short term if you want to go away either choose your destinations with her walking capability in mind or consider an e-bike or car hire at your destination.

I say this as someone who has numerous orthopaedic problems and who enjoys motorhoming.

 

[Armytwowheels]

Conal I can reccomened Woodford trailers near Daventry. They tailor made a double axle trailer for us according to the size of car we were going to tow and the weight we could tow.

We have plenty of train weight to play with but didn't want to waste fuel towing something unnecessarily heavy. Our trailer come in at a tad less than 400kg. The car is a 4 door Toyota Aygo around 900kg. We load the car backwards so the engine weight is away from the tow bar.

 

[Peterd]

The more I read posts like these the more I admire the people on MotorhomeFun. You are such a helpful lot, just what we all need at a time like this.
I know some may think this post a waste of your time but it still needs saying

 

[Conal]

Hi Wack
The engine is 150bhp 2.3litre fiat. From what I have read the 3litre is better but they weren’t offering it in 2016.

 

[Conal]

PrettyandFluffy You make good common sense points and, believe me, we have considered them. Hilary is going to seek a private consultation if she doesn’t improve.
We will definitely have the tow bar gitted but may not buy the trailer yet. We might rent one firstto see if the arrangement works for us.

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