Towing a car on a trailer

[Mikeco]

From the brochure (the van is in storage but I will look at the plate tomorrow. Thanks for all the help.
Max. front axle loading (kg) 2100
Max. rear axle loading (kg) 2400
Max. gross weight (kg) 4500
Max. gross train weight (kg) 5500
Mass in running order (kg) 3640
Max. towing weight (kg) 1500

It will be interesting to see what the plate says.

 

[Conal]

Will report back

 

[Badknee]

I asked the question of an A frame for my 1993 Eunos Roadster but it’s not possible due to the front end design so I bought a Pheonix twin axle trailer (480kg) with a 2500kgs capacity.

 

[Mikeco]

If your van weighs 4000 with you ,partner and all your stuff in it you can tow 1500 as you're not over the train weight of 5500kg

So if Mr Alco tells Mr Autotrail that his lightweight chassis is strong enough to tow 1000kg I don’t think that I would be towing 1500kg with it.

 

[bigtwin]

It’s the converters plate on the vehicle that will determine what the vehicle is allowed to tow which is Train weight less GVW.

No, that is no more than an assumption that is true only when the MH weighs 4,500Kg. For every Kg that the MH is below its GVW that is a Kg that can be added to the allowed towing weight (while staying below, in this case, 5,500Kg).

Conal has already indicated, there is a 1500Kg towing limit specified by the manufacturer (that is unrelated to the plated weights).

Section 7.3 in the following link supports the fact that it is permissible/legal to tow at a weight that is greater than GTW - GVW (provided, of course, that the GTW is not exceeded).

Department for Transport Guidance

Ian

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wack]

So if Mr Alco tells Mr Autotrail that his lightweight chassis is strong enough to tow 1000kg I don’t think that I would be towing 1500kg with it.

The brochure reads 1500kg , if it's 1000kg max I doubt there's a car and trailer combination on the market that comes in at under 1000kg

 

[bigtwin]

So if Mr Alco tells Mr Autotrail that his lightweight chassis is strong enough to tow 1000kg I don’t think that I would be towing 1500kg with it.

Ahh, while it is permissible to tow 1500Kg you are suggesting that, in your view, it would be unwise. However, in @Conal‘s case he has indicated that his MH manufacturer has specified that it would be perfectly safe.

Ian

 

[Mikeco]

Ahh, while it is permissible to tow 1500Kg you are suggesting that, in your view, it would be unwise. However, in @Conal‘s case he has indicated that his MH manufacturer has specified that it would be perfectly safe.

Ian

No he hasn’t, not till he looks at the plate.

 

[Mikeco]

No, that is no more than an assumption that is true only when the MH weighs 4,500Kg. For every Kg that the MH is below its GVW that is a Kg that can be added to the allowed towing weight (while staying below, in this case, 5,500Kg).

Conal has already indicated, there is a 1500Kg towing limit specified by the manufacturer (that is unrelated to the plated weights).

Section 7.3 in the following link supports the fact that it is permissible/legal to tow at a weight that is greater than GTW - GVW (provided, of course, that the GTW is not exceeded).

Department for Transport Guidance

Ian

A figure in a brochure means absolutely nothing.

 

[Mikeco]

The brochure reads 1500kg , if it's 1000kg max I doubt there's a car and trailer combination on the market that comes in at under 1000kg

True and there will be quite a few vans out there with a low towing weight especially any which have been plated upwards.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[sweetie]

As mine I usually run at about 4300kg with a max gross weight of 4500kg and max train weight of 5500kg so would be touch and go as I would only have 1200kg left for single axle trailer and car. A twin axle with with a car on would possible put over 5500kg train weight unless you where well under 4500kg gross weight.

 

[Conal]

sweetie
Yes, I think I will find the same weight as you. I would much rather have a more stable double axle trailer but it would be too heavy.

 

[Mikeco]

sweetie
Yes, I think I will find the same weight as you. I would much rather have a more stable double axle trailer but it would be too heavy.

I towed a Brian James single axle trailer which itself weighed 450kg and the C1 on top another 850kg, fortunately I was using a panel van which could tow 2500 kg so no problem.
There are some aluminium folding trailers about but very expensive and also very rare but also very light.

 

[Conal]

Thanks Mikeco i will start looking for small aluminium trailers

 

[Mikeco]

Thanks Mikeco i will start looking for small aluminium trailers

Have a look at The Aluminium Trailer Company, single axle but for light cars so might not be man enough.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wack]

Thanks Mikeco i will start looking for small aluminium trailers

Prg trailers do a minisport trailer which weighs 365kg according to the spec sheet 1500kg gvw, they build them from scratch , that one in the picture is kitted out for a race car , they might be able to build something lighter , you'd have to ask them

 

[cmcardle75]

Hi everyone,
I hope those more knowledgeable can help me.
Recently, whilst visiting Whitby and Scarborough my wife injured her foot and we had to cut our trip short as walking in such hilly area became too painful. I t is not improving and we are both “getting on a bit” 66 Mand65 respectively so
We are now considering towing Amy hobby car.
After reading many posts here and elsewhere we are considering both a “A” frame and a micro maxi trailer.
Our first step had been to book into Watling Engineers to have a tow bar fitted. We have chosen an option that allows either method of towing.
Now to the questions.
Our Autotrail Delaware had a max weight of 4500kg, 1500kg towing capacity, and for the combined motor home and towing 5500kg.
Am I correct in thinking that if the actual loaded weight of the motorhome is less than 4500kg I can use the remainder for the trailer and car up to1500kg?
Secondly, my car is a Morris Minor convertible with a kerbside weight of around 770kg. The term is confusing because it could include a 75kg for a driver, or it may not. I understand the micro maxi trailer is around 400kg - give a combined weight around 1170kg, 170kg above the potential weight I might reach.
There are other factors I do not fully understand-
The tow bar will be around 35kg but most of that weight will be 2 metres from Rear wheels. The trailer may need extra parts that can’t be stored in the motorhome - winch, coupling etc... I can store the car spare wheel and rear seat in the motorhome, and leave it low on fuel.
Do you feel this approach is feasible?

People get all upset by the possible maximum weights. However, there is a difference between vehicle allowed weights and licence allowed weights. In general, licences are about the amount you are allowed to weight (i.e, you'll need a C1+E licence for this), whilst vehicles are about actual weights. Once you have the licence for it, you need to ensure that your towing vehicles does actually weight more than its MAM (4500kg). You need to ensure that your trailer doesn't weight more than its MAM (not specified) and that the both together doesn't weight more than the GTW (5500kg). You don't have to find other spurious weights not to exceed. Your C1+E (if you didn't take a test) has a total limit of 8250kg, which is unlikely to be exceeded.

 

[cmcardle75]

People get all upset by the possible maximum weights. However, there is a difference between vehicle allowed weights and licence allowed weights. In general, licences are about the amount you are allowed to weight (i.e, you'll need a C1+E licence for this), whilst vehicles are about actual weights. Once you have the licence for it, you need to ensure that your towing vehicles does actually weight more than its MAM (4500kg). You need to ensure that your trailer doesn't weight more than its MAM (not specified) and that the both together doesn't weight more than the GTW (5500kg). You don't have to find other spurious weights not to exceed. Your C1+E (if you didn't take a test) has a total limit of 8250kg, which is unlikely to be exceeded.

BTW, if you're licence is only B, do park up and take some legal advice.

 

[tonyidle]

You

Phill D
Good question. It is early days in my research. I belong to both the main forums for Morris Minors and have been trying to find archived info. If it is possible I think I would have to tow it backwards as otherwise the rear wheel diff would get very hot and I would tot up a lot of mileage!
The Morris seemed to fit the bill rather than changing my wife’s car for a lighter one as even the smallest four seater is at least this weight.

You cannot tow it backwards on an A frame which relies on unlocked steering to corner. An A frame tows the car on all four wheels. A recovery dolly (as opposed to an A frame) is illegal other than for recovery purposes.

 

[bigtwin]

No he hasn’t, not till he looks at the plate.

I eagerly await his feedback because I have yet to see a weight plate that defines a towing limit.

As I said in an earlier post:

I have never seen a plated towing weight; Only Axle 1, Axle 2, Axle 3 (if fitted), GVW & GTW.

GTW minus GVW is not a plated weight .......

Ian

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lorryman100]

Sorry I am a little confused by this post. The way to work out what trailer weight you can tow is the difference between plated excise weight and GTW. As an example our Moho revenue weight (plate) is 3850kgs. GTW is 5500kg leaving 1650kgs. We have a lightweight trailer plated at 1600kgs (load capacity of 1200kgs.) The plated weights of the Moho 3850kg and the trailer 1600kg come in at 5450kg, 50 kg under the GTW. It is the plated weights that DVSA and the Police use for checking loaded vehicle weights (Axle, GVW and GTW).
If the OP has a GVW plated weight of 4500kg and a GTW of 5500kg then the trailer will need to have a plated weight of <1000kg. If its a car on an A frame then it would be the maximum weight of the tow car plus the plated weight of the MoHo.
The MoHo manufacturer may set a structural limit to the weight being towed as a maximum but this doesn't mean you can tow up to this weight as you may not have the spare weight available between GVW and GTW. HTH.

 

[PeteH]

A lot depends on the construction of the Chassis, and the attachment of the tow bar, The Alko chassis is Constructionally a fairly lightweight frame, and needs serious consideration as to the points at which the loads are imposed. Therefore it is probable that an Alko equipped motorhome will have a lower towing limit than (say) one attached to the base vehicle`s chassis members. There will likely also be a difference between the "light" and "heavy" chassis too.

The X250 series specifies a Maximum Trailer Load of 2000Kg. (2010 Alko Data Brochure)

 

[emjaiuk]

I've seen some confusing threads............!

Simple question. LEAVING ASIDE for the sake of argument any physical limitations imposed by Base Vehicle/Convertor/Tow Bar Manufacturer

Is the FORMULA for calculating the maximum towable weight either

Maximum Train Weight less the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT shown on the MH convertors plate
OR
Maximum Train Weight less the ACTUAL weight of the motorhome?

Instinct tells me it's the GVW that's relevant, but I don't know for certain. I certainly understand that for A frame towing it's the GVW of the toad that authorities use when checking the weight of the 'trailer'.

 

[poppycamper]

I always thought MTW was the max allowed weight of vehicle and trailer combined.
GVW was the MAX weight of vehicle... HOWEVER if actual weight of vehicle was less than it's GVW the difference could be added to trailer as long as the MTW was not exceeded nor any max towing weights specified vehicle manufacturer.!!!

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Its a bit more complicated than that- for example
Transit 350 Van is 3500 GVW and 5500 GTW

Empty it weighs ( give or take) 2400 kg
If you stick a 3400 kg trailer on it when empty, you would be in difficulties

Additionally, Trailer Max on an Autotrail is to do with the strength of the chassis, not the capabilities of the cab

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[poppycamper]

Its a bit more complicated than that- for example
Transit 350 Van is 3500 GVW and 5500 GTW

Empty it weighs ( give or take) 2400 kg
If you stick a 3400 kg trailer on it when empty, you would be in difficulties

Additionally, Trailer Max on an Autotrail is to do with the strength of the chassis, not the capabilities of the cab

Indeed you would...AND illegal
2400kg van plus 3400kg trailer equals 5800kg. You say GTW was 5500kg????

 

[bobnick]

What confuses me is the trailer that is 350 Kgs is towed not carried so how is the allowance for towing arrived at????

 

[poppycamper]

What confuses me is the trailer that is 350 Kgs is towed not carried so how is the allowance for towing arrived at????

Only guessing here but I would say the vehicle manufacturers decide what a safe towing limit would be for any of its particular models based on engine size..gear ratios... chassis design etc.

 

[Augusta08]

I tow a Porsche 944S2 1000kg (lots of carbon fibre panels and plastic windows) on a 600kg trailer. So I'm near the top of the allowance, but the AlKo chassis is fine with it. I'm careful to load the car so that the towball weight is circa 25kg on level ground. This reduces strain on the rear axle despite considerable overhang.

 

[bigtwin]

Sorry I am a little confused by this post. The way to work out what trailer weight you can tow is the difference between plated excise weight and GTW. As an example our Moho revenue weight (plate) is 3850kgs. GTW is 5500kg leaving 1650kgs. We have a lightweight trailer plated at 1600kgs (load capacity of 1200kgs.) The plated weights of the Moho 3850kg and the trailer 1600kg come in at 5450kg, 50 kg under the GTW. It is the plated weights that DVSA and the Police use for checking loaded vehicle weights (Axle, GVW and GTW).
If the OP has a GVW plated weight of 4500kg and a GTW of 5500kg then the trailer will need to have a plated weight of <1000kg. If its a car on an A frame then it would be the maximum weight of the tow car plus the plated weight of the MoHo.
The MoHo manufacturer may set a structural limit to the weight being towed as a maximum but this doesn't mean you can tow up to this weight as you may not have the spare weight available between GVW and GTW. HTH.

Your assertion is true only if the actual MH weight = the GVW. Each and every Kg that the MH is below its GVW is a Kg extra that can be towed (provided that neither the GTW of the MH nor tge GVW of the ‘trailer’ are not exceeded).

See the DfT link that I posted earlier:

Section 7.3 in the following link supports the fact that it is permissible/legal to tow at a weight that is greater than GTW - GVW (provided, of course, that the GTW is not exceeded).

Department for Transport Guidance

I've seen some confusing threads............!

Simple question. LEAVING ASIDE for the sake of argument any physical limitations imposed by Base Vehicle/Convertor/Tow Bar Manufacturer

Is the FORMULA for calculating the maximum towable weight either

Maximum Train Weight less the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT shown on the MH convertors plate
OR
Maximum Train Weight less the ACTUAL weight of the motorhome?

Instinct tells me it's the GVW that's relevant, but I don't know for certain. I certainly understand that for A frame towing it's the GVW of the toad that authorities use when checking the weight of the 'trailer'.

As indicated above, it is the latter and not the former.

I always thought MTW was the max allowed weight of vehicle and trailer combined.
GVW was the MAX weight of vehicle... HOWEVER if actual weight of vehicle was less than it's GVW the difference could be added to trailer as long as the MTW was not exceeded nor any max towing weights specified vehicle manufacturer.!!!

In one! Folks insist on creating/deriving a mythical additional ‘plated’ weight of GTW - GVW that simply does not exist.

Ian

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}