Tide turning against wild camping

scotjimland said:
agreed and as I said ^^^^^^^^^^^^

sadly, it is still posted on many FB groups and other media that you are allowed to 'wild camp' in Scotland with a van / morotome ..

there has literally been an explosion of campervans and motorhomes .. particularly since the pandemic.. but it started long before that, and there has been very little infrastructure provided to support the hobby ..

areas in Scotland like the NC500 will need to controlled by making them national parks, (like the Trossachs and Loch Lomond National Park ) and with a permit to access for a limited time.. and only for self-sufficient vans.. if travelling by car other other transport .. proof you are booked into a campsite, an Hotel or B&B .. for the permit duration.

money raised used to provide overnight stops with basic services, ie water and waste disposal, .. numbers strictly controlled.. employ park rangers to enforce regulations..
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Hi Scotjimlad,

It would be great if everyone who visits Scotland and/ or enjoys the use of the land did read the Access Code as it does make clear what ‘wild Camping’ means in terms of the legislation. The web abounds with guidance, makes clear that it does not apply to vehicles, and that off site, or off road use of land is by permission of the landowner.

Only better education and clarification on the misunderstanding will help to address the issue. There is little doubt that the land pressures exerted by Campervans/ Motorhomes and other leisure vehicles is just not from such misunderstanding. Much is from the volume, and the sometimes selfish and uncaring behaviour by some too! Unfortunately we are often all branded the same - we are not easy to miss and make sweeping generalisations about - so if we all can do our little bit it may slow the inevitable controls - which actually in the long run might be no bad thing in the general way you have described!
 
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Brains said:
The correct term is 'Stealth Camping'
That is; camping on or near, a road, or in an semi-urban location.
Normally trying to blend into background and it not be recognised that you are in residence.
This can apply to rough sleepers, tent campers, cars & small vans, or caravans & motorhomes.

"Wild Camping"
Is what you describe above.
By definition it is not within sight or sound of a road or buildings.
It could be on agricultural land, but more likely on moors, heath, forest or upland areas.
It would normally involve a tent, tarp, hammock or similar.
"Take nothing but memories leave nothing but footprints"

It annoys me as well every time I see the use of the words 'wild camping' when they mean 'stealth camping'.
It is almost impossible to 'wild camp' in a conventional 2x4 motorhome.

Perhaps Jim could update the glossary of terms
;)
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The proper term is 'Selfish Freeloading'! Why not ask for permission and make a small payment to help someone else ?.... It's better than just helping yourself!
 
Just viewed the blog of the guy and his wife and hound doing the Spanish coast and the road he tried park on . . . WTF !
Where are all those folk doing with
Refuse, soiled water and not to mention toilet waste ! It’s no wonder locals are kicking off regarding MH and Hippy vans. It’s such a shame our much loved pass time has been ruined by the thoughtless masses. 🤬🤯😓

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The Ice Man said:
Just viewed the blog of the guy and his wife and hound doing the Spanish coast and the road he tried park on . . . WTF !
Where are all those folk doing with
Refuse, soiled water and not to mention toilet waste ! It’s no wonder locals are kicking off regarding MH and Hippy vans. It’s such a shame our much loved pass time has been ruined by the thoughtless masses. 🤬🤯😓
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Not only abroad, the selfish thoughtlessness extends to farms, countryside and campsites in this country! 😡

Just closing farm gates and not driving down the main road, dribbling waste water on the cars behind, would give a far better impression of M/Hers to the general public! 🤔
 
Brains said:
The correct term is 'Stealth Camping'
That is; camping on or near, a road, or in an semi-urban location.
Normally trying to blend into background and it not be recognised that you are in residence.
This can apply to rough sleepers, tent campers, cars & small vans, or caravans & motorhomes.

"Wild Camping"
Is what you describe above.
By definition it is not within sight or sound of a road or buildings.
It could be on agricultural land, but more likely on moors, heath, forest or upland areas.
It would normally involve a tent, tarp, hammock or similar.
"Take nothing but memories leave nothing but footprints"

It annoys me as well every time I see the use of the words 'wild camping' when they mean 'stealth camping'.
It is almost impossible to 'wild camp' in a conventional 2x4 motorhome.

Perhaps Jim could update the glossary of terms
;)
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We took our motorhome up to Scarborough yesterday,went down to the south bay,absolutely packed with motorhomes,must have been near to sixty,with lots staying over winter.
 
As long as they pay their fees and spend a bit of wonga in the local shops & pubs, and leave no trace behind them then happy days all round. I’m lucky enuf to live close to the coast and we regularly dodge down to the beach from parking do a walk, have a coffee an amber nectar or ice cream. Putting a bit into the local businesses.
 
Petroleumblownapart said:
The proper term is 'Selfish Freeloading'! Why not ask for permission and make a small payment to help someone else ?.... It's better than just helping yourself!
Click to expand...

You quoted Brains

'...on or near a road...'

If it is a road with no parking restrictions, from whom would one ask permission and make payment, including outside one's own house?
 
nicholsong said:
You quoted Brains

'...on or near a road...'

If it is a road with no parking restrictions, from whom would one ask permission and make payment, including outside one's own house?
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This webpage may be helpful to some! There are many others offering guidance on parking on land and public roads. Unfortunately it uses the language of ‘Wild Camping’ too - but does refer briefly to the Scottish dimension.

How long can a motorhome or campervan be parked on the street?

The laws for parking your motorhome and campervan on the street in the UK baffle many vehicle owners. There’s no legal right to do so, but neither is there a law to prohibit it. Discover the rules and how to stay safe when parking with this Motorhome Protect guide.
www.motorhomeprotect.co.uk

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Markman said:
"Wild camping" . . . while we are sorting things, can we also finality resolve how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
en.wikipedia.org

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Maybe you should ask those who have to live with inconsiderate Campervaners, Motorhomers and other vehicle owners, and see if they think it is not important. You might get an interesting answer - and perhaps straight to the ‘point’!
 
Brains said:
Even harder to do it in the wild!
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With ours being 8.26 metres long we will never be “stealth”🤣🤣but just camping that happens to be in the wild off grid - certainly not going to make a fuss of what it’s called.

It’s a shame that some moho users are still abusing where they stay regardless of nationality or housing state I believe everyone should respect the country that they are visiting !!
 
Smokaijo said:
With ours being 8.26 metres long we will never be “stealth”🤣🤣but just camping that happens to be in the wild off grid - certainly not going to make a fuss of what it’s called.

It’s a shame that some moho users are still abusing where they stay regardless of nationality or housing state I believe everyone should respect the country that they are visiting !!
Click to expand...
8.26m Motorhome - “camping”, “wild”! 🥴🤣🤣🤣

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1000028139.jpg
Wild camping the Scottish way.
 
scotjimland said:
Nice try... but I think your Google is broken... 🙄

Manchester Homeless People Face Jail Over City Centre Tent Camps | Manchester | The Guardian
why-do-homeless-people-have-tents
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I think you get the general idea. Joking apart I know there are thousands of homeless people living in vehicle's, not as a life choice but down to necessity. I even know of full time workers who are doing exactly that.

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Hi folks. Interesting thread.
We started motorhoming when we were students, graduating from a tent. For many years we were very short of money but as we had kids, we tried to spend some time on sites, so they could play and meet other children. We would also do “wild camping” nights so we could save a bit of money to spend in towns or cities. Once we cottoned on to designated car parks etc we used them.

Our golden rule is only leave tyre prints. We have lugged rubbish for days before finding reasonable bins.
Now we route Europe without the children, only stopping on full sites for laundry days. We are happy to pay and shop locally. Searchforsites and the likes guide our stops. For us the freedom to roam is what it’s all about rather than ‘free loading’.

The Europeans seem to recognise that if they provide a car park with overnight stay permitted, the visitors will spend money in the town/village and push off in a few days.
How many small towns and villages are dying in this country with ‘No overnight parking’ and height restrictions on their empty car parks?

Just a thought
 
tinkertaylor said:
I think you get the general idea. Joking apart I know there are thousands of homeless people living in vehicle's, not as a life choice but down to necessity. I even know of full time workers who are doing exactly that.
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Hardly ‘wild camping’ though! I would have described that as living on the street - sadly whether in a car, sleeping bag or cardboard box!
 
Blaydon said:
Hi folks. Interesting thread.
We started motorhoming when we were students, graduating from a tent. For many years we were very short of money but as we had kids, we tried to spend some time on sites, so they could play and meet other children. We would also do “wild camping” nights so we could save a bit of money to spend in towns or cities. Once we cottoned on to designated car parks etc we used them.

Our golden rule is only leave tyre prints. We have lugged rubbish for days before finding reasonable bins.
Now we route Europe without the children, only stopping on full sites for laundry days. We are happy to pay and shop locally. Searchforsites and the likes guide our stops. For us the freedom to roam is what it’s all about rather than ‘free loading’.

The Europeans seem to recognise that if they provide a car park with overnight stay permitted, the visitors will spend money in the town/village and push off in a few days.
How many small towns and villages are dying in this country with ‘No overnight parking’ and height restrictions on their empty car parks?

Just a thought
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I think the difference is, abroad, they often have more space, the UK is, often, overcrowded?

Make the most of abroad, 'the times they are achanging' as someone once said! 🤔
 
Kayak Kid said:
Hardly ‘wild camping’ though! I would have described that as living on the street - sadly whether in a car, sleeping bag or cardboard box!
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Yea your right, but at the same time what is wild camping, living in the woods, living on a field, in a tent , in a box, in car?

What we need is alternatives for the homeless and for the wild camping brigade, whatever that actually means , which for me its staying somewhere and not paying, either in a city or a wood.
 
tinkertaylor said:
Yea your right, but at the same time what is wild camping, living in the woods, living on a field, in a tent , in a box, in car?

What we need is alternatives for the homeless and for the wild camping brigade, whatever that actually means , which for me its staying somewhere and not paying, either in a city or a wood.
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My postings on here are not about the homeless - I will leave that to another thread and to those better placed than me to comment. My postings are fundementally about trying to protect what we have as we are going to miss it when it is restricted further.

You have asked in your post what is ‘Wild Camping’ - for sure it is not in a motorhome!
The more that people stay overnight in areas where it is not permitted or is inappropriate, the more restrictions we will see. In Scotland, I see this more and more where local people and landowners( private and public) have had enough!

My attempts here are to try and clarify that there are different rights of access in Scotland and ‘wild camping’ does not mean vehicular access and overnight sleeping in it. It would be helpful if more visitors to the outdoors here understood and respected the requirements - which were indeed hard fought for in the courts and elsewhere. Some from Scotland and elsewhere don’t understand them or disregard them - but many do respect them. The universal use of the term ‘wild camping’ when visiting Scotland in a Campervan/ Motorhome does little to help to avoid the increasing misunderstanding and conflict as the number of vehicular tourists increase annually.

Many of us travel in a variety of countries and I suspect like me they try to respect the local laws and regulations and try not to spoil it for others. We have threads on here complaining about the Germans and Dutch (as an example) behaving badly in Spain and prompting restrictions.

The same pressures are happening in Scotland in high season (and elsewhere in the U.K.) and we all have a part to play to slow down the inevitable!
 
Kayak Kid said:
My postings on here are not about the homeless - I will leave that to another thread and to those better placed than me to comment. My postings are fundementally about trying to protect what we have as we are going to miss it when it is restricted further.

You have asked in your post what is ‘Wild Camping’ - for sure it is not in a motorhome!
The more that people stay overnight in areas where it is not permitted or is inappropriate, the more restrictions we will see. In Scotland, I see this more and more where local people and landowners( private and public) have had enough!

My attempts here are to try and clarify that there are different rights of access in Scotland and ‘wild camping’ does not mean vehicular access and overnight sleeping in it. It would be helpful if more visitors to the outdoors here understood and respected the requirements - which were indeed hard fought for in the courts and elsewhere. Some from Scotland and elsewhere don’t understand them or disregard them - but many do respect them. The universal use of the term ‘wild camping’ when visiting Scotland in a Campervan/ Motorhome does little to help to avoid the increasing misunderstanding and conflict as the number of vehicular tourists increase annually.

Many of us travel in a variety of countries and I suspect like me they try to respect the local laws and regulations and try not to spoil it for others. We have threads on here complaining about the Germans and Dutch (as an example) behaving badly in Spain and prompting restrictions.

The same pressures are happening in Scotland in high season (and elsewhere in the U.K.) and we all have a part to play to slow down the inevitable!
Click to expand...

As far as I understand if one parks a motorhome in Scotland in a permitted parking space with no restrictions one is free to spend the night inside, if one does not put out 'camping gear'.

I agree that the access legislation does not permit vehicular access, but that is meant to restrict off-road access. It cannot restrict vehicular access to roads and parking areas.
 
nicholsong said:
As far as I understand if one parks a motorhome in Scotland in a permitted parking space with no restrictions one is free to spend the night inside, if one does not put out 'camping gear'.
Click to expand...
that is correct, the same applies in England and Wales, ..not just Scotland

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