this Bl**dy Heat exchanger....

[JockandRita]

Make sure you tune in on Saturday morning for the next episode in " my f87$kng heat exchanger won't work..

Will do Paul, with trepidation and anticipation ...................but not if you are going to involve that shower at Trouble World.

You shouldn’t need a separate pump and these heaters only work when the engine is running.

Our engine pre-heater is a separate 12v pump, to that providing the flow from the heat exchanger to the Habitation area.

I would be very surprised if there is a thermostat inline going to the heat exchanger.

You could just take the two pipes off the bit of plastic and join them together.

In doing so by pass the plastic bit and see if both pipes warm up.

I like that idea as an element of elimination.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[M50]

I’m guessing it’s something like this it might help you trace the pipe work as a starter for 10
Please bear in mind the equipment might not be in the order I’ve drawn it (badly )



1 engine radiator
2 engine waterpump
3 engine
4 additional pump operated on dash (to preheat engine from Aldi system when Aldi is warm)
5 by pass to stop heat in summer from passing through the heat exchanger (could be a leaver or a fancy solenoid )
Red box heat exchanger
6 Aldi heating pump controlled from Aldi panel should be mounted near/on Aldi boiler
7 Aldi boiler

 

[Silver-Fox]

Our engine pre-heater is a separate 12v pump, to that providing the flow from the heat exchanger to the Habitation area.

Really, I’m gob smacked as the hab heating and engine coolant are two separate systems.
Or have I misread or not understood your post?

Don’t ya just love a mystery

 

[funflair]

I’d be surprised if it’s an engine pre heater.

Ours use an Erbespacher that is plumbed into the coolant system and helps heat the engine.
Water is circulated via the engines water pump.

You shouldn’t need a separate pump and these heaters only work when the engine is running.

Again I’m happy to be corrected but I know how our system works on the Merc base.

edit

Not sure if you’ve used the old fashioned method either.

Start engine push all your buttons to make everything work.
Get a long handled screwdriver put it on various pipes etc you think is going to the heat exchanger and stick your ear against the screwdriver handle.

Or a stethoscope if you have one

It’s quite common on the Alde Heat exchanger system to be able to heat the engine from the Alde, the normal and intended function of the heat exchanger is to use waste heat from the engine and pass it into the Alde system which all work from the engine water pump (usually) as an option you can add a little pump that effectively makes the system run the other way in that it pumps heat from the Alde to the engine cooling system actually warming the engine.

Yes I am familiar with the Mercedes system and of course they use/used this on cars and vans which didn’t have a secondary heating system to tap into, we had it on a C class.

Oh and yes I am familiar with the screwdriver trick.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I’m guessing it’s something like this it might help you trace the pipe work as a starter for 10
Please bear in mind the equipment might not be in the order I’ve drawn it (badly )



1 engine radiator
2 engine waterpump
3 engine
4 additional pump operated on dash (to preheat engine from Aldi system when Aldi is warm)
5 by pass to stop heat in summer from passing through the heat exchanger (could be a leaver or a fancy solenoid )
Red box heat exchanger
6 Aldi heating pump controlled from Aldi panel should be mounted near/on Aldi boiler
7 Aldi boiler View attachment 977746

That makes sense but why would you use hab heating to warm engine coolant.

Unless you don’t have an erber like us on the Merc.
Now that was me presuming and I apologise.

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[M50]

 

[M50]

 

[Silver-Fox]

It’s quite common on the Alde Heat exchanger system to be able to heat the engine from the Alde, the normal and intended function of the heat exchanger is to use waste heat from the engine and pass it into the Alde system which all work from the engine water pump (usually) as an option you can add a little pump that effectively makes the system run the other way in that it pumps heat from the Alde to the engine cooling system actually warming the engine.

Yes I am familiar with the Mercedes system and of course they use/used this on cars and vans which didn’t have a secondary heating system to tap into, we had it on a C class.

That makes sense but why would you use hab heating to warm engine coolant.

Unless you don’t have an erber like us on the Merc.
Now that was me presuming and I apologise.

As above I cocked up and presumed something.
The fook up of all engineering

Apologise to all.

 

[M50]

You use hab heating to pre warm engines in very cold conditions
Pics above heat exchanger
Circulating pump Aldi
Sorry if you already knew this is what they look like

 

[funflair]

I’m guessing it’s something like this it might help you trace the pipe work as a starter for 10
Please bear in mind the equipment might not be in the order I’ve drawn it (badly )



1 engine radiator
2 engine waterpump
3 engine
4 additional pump operated on dash (to preheat engine from Aldi system when Aldi is warm)
5 by pass to stop heat in summer from passing through the heat exchanger (could be a leaver or a fancy solenoid )
Red box heat exchanger
6 Aldi heating pump controlled from Aldi panel should be mounted near/on Aldi boiler
7 Aldi boiler View attachment 977746

Basically yes, the engine feed for the heat exchanger usually comes off the feed to the heater matrix so to shut it off in the summer you just close it at the heat exchanger or in the engine bay as it comes off the heather feed so the heater will still work and no need for the bypass, I have only ever seen this as a manual valve but that certainly doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways of doing the same thing.

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[bigtwin]

I’m guessing it’s something like this it might help you trace the pipe work as a starter for 10
Please bear in mind the equipment might not be in the order I’ve drawn it (badly )



1 engine radiator
2 engine waterpump
3 engine
4 additional pump operated on dash (to preheat engine from Aldi system when Aldi is warm)
5 by pass to stop heat in summer from passing through the heat exchanger (could be a leaver or a fancy solenoid )
Red box heat exchanger
6 Aldi heating pump controlled from Aldi panel should be mounted near/on Aldi boiler
7 Aldi boiler View attachment 977746

Yes, that’s a good summary of the system but pump #4 would be located to the RHS of your HX bypass line.

Ian

 

[M50]

I’d not worry about switch’s and pumps for now
Get the engine hot ( you should struggle to hold the pipes) 80/90 deg and follow/trace them making sure they are hot not just warm
If you find the heat exchanger again they should be hot on either side of the exchanger
Then try the same with the Aldi hab side of the circuit
Once happy they are hot all round you need to ensure the circulating pump (item 4 on my poor drawing) on the engine side is working when you energise it from the dash

 

[funflair]

As above I cocked up and presumed something.
The fook up of all engineering

Apologise to all.

Sometimes you have to go with what you know but be prepared to be wrong and learn as you go, if it was straightforward we would all be able to get it right all the time.

 

[Ridgeway]

Sorry just answering the earlier point on the AMV. This is a common solution added by NiBi on Arto’s to supplement the Alde heating system

AMV Wohnmobiltechnik | Innovation rund ums Wohnmobil

amv-wohnmobiltechnik.de

What it does:

There’s a small and separate control panel, fag box size if you have one.

 

[M50]

My isolation valve is as basic as this
Good luck

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[Silver-Fox]

Sometimes you have to go with what you know but be prepared to be wrong and learn as you go, if it was straightforward we would all be able to get it right all the time.

Absolutely, I’m always happy to be corrected as in this case

 

[bigtwin]

My isolation valve is as basic as this
Good luck

View attachment 977763

As is mine; you couldn’t miss it so I doubt that, if it’s there, he’d have overlooked it.

Ian

 

[funflair]

That could have some credibility, but not if there are any wires coming from that device (which would rather suggest that it’s an impeller type pump).

Ian

Yes I still think it’s a pump as well, you can see that the exit is off to one side, as it should be on a centrifugal pump.

 

[bigtwin]

Yes I still think it’s a pump as well, you can see that the exit is off to one side, as it should be on a centrifugal pump.

Agreed, It also has an arrow on the housing showing the rotational direction.

Ian

 

[haganap]

Ok just to pick up on a couple of bits...

The thermostat serves the purpose of ensuring that the engine heat is taken care of first, only then when the coolant is hot enough in the engine is the thermostat opened to then flow from the engine to the heat exchanger.

Looking at what I believe is a thermostat housing but PJ thinks is a pump, this having been T pieced from the matrix with a pipe that comes from it, into the heat exchanger. (I hope) ..

I am unsure what part the fan switch plays, it could if it has wires to it, operate the what I believe is a thermostat. Or if it is some form of pump, it could be pumping the fluid to the HX contolrolled by the fan switch.

I can not see any inline pumps but as you can imagine, it's a minefield in there.

One other thing to consider is that it's entirely possible we've been looking in the wrong place and the diagram given would suggest this.

The two hoses that I pictured going in to the bulkhead underneath the air con pipes may simply be for the heater matrix as available on any van without a HX.

My guess is that the pipe from said object runs in to the van and to the HX via another route next to the Drivers side.

Here's hoping anyway.

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[M50]

Have you found the heat exchanger?
I’m guessing it will be more than likely in the motorhome rather than the engine bay one of mine was under the passenger seat

 

[bigtwin]

The thermostat serves the purpose of ensuring that the engine heat is taken care of first, only then when the coolant is hot enough in the engine is the thermostat opened to then flow from the engine to the heat exchanger.

The normal thermostat on the engine takes care of that function so not sure why you’d need a second one. However, it is possible that a second could be fitted.

In theory, after the engine/block thermostat has opened, you’d want to prioritise the habitation heating over the engine radiator so it’s possible that a second thermostat could be used to achieve that objective.

Ian

 

[funflair]

Sorry just answering the earlier point on the AMV. This is a common solution added by NiBi on Arto’s to supplement the Alde heating system

AMV Wohnmobiltechnik | Innovation rund ums Wohnmobil

amv-wohnmobiltechnik.de

What it does:

View attachment 977754

There’s a small and separate control panel, fag box size if you have one.

That's interesting, I thought that N+B offered something like this but couldn't find any info, I wonder if they have done their own interpretation of it without the control panel, when Paul said he could get heat from the vents but not to/from the engine made me think, to be fair though I am still thinking

 

[Ridgeway]

From the Bordbuch:

 

[Ridgeway]

Paul if you need the Bordbuch I have the full version in PDF in English

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[funflair]

View attachment 977751

That's a standard Alde system pump though and won't be the same as the one Paul is looking for to operate the engine heating/circulation.

 

[haganap]

Paul if you need the Bordbuch I have the full version in PDF in English

That would be useful. Thanks.. the explanation above is exactly what I thought.

There is no heat in those two pipes to and from the engine side

 

[funflair]

From the Bordbuch:

View attachment 977775

View attachment 977776

View attachment 977777

View attachment 977778

Good info so that confirms that the elusive valve is electric operated so now Paul just needs to find it and give it a twat with the handle of a screwdriver it will be in the engine bay somewhere off the heater matrix supply pipes I guess.

 

[Googlebot]

Good info so that confirms that the elusive valve is electric operated so now Paul just needs to find it and give it a twat with the handle of a screwdriver it will be in the engine bay somewhere off the heater matrix supply pipes I guess.

If it was me, I would hit it too hard and break something. :-(

Hopefully the end is near, I am invested in this!

 

[JockandRita]

Really, I’m gob smacked as the hab heating and engine coolant are two separate systems.
Or have I misread or not understood your post?

I've not caught up with the thread, but hopefully Martin's post quoted below, will help to clarify.

as an option you can add a little pump that effectively makes the system run the other way in that it pumps heat from the Alde to the engine cooling system actually warming the engine.

And that's how ours is, and Martin would know, as he replaced the pump at some stage.

Cheers,

Jock.

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