this Bl**dy Heat exchanger....

[Googlebot]

I've bled it at the heat exchnager if thats what you mean Andy? But is there a way it could have an airlock from the engine side?

Look in the engine bay where the pipes exit the bulkhead, is there a bleed screw like this on the new black pipe? It doesn’t sound like an air lock though if the engine is getting warm from the Alde.

Sounds to me like a valve not opening on the engine circuit when the switch is pressed. It is frustrating as it’s working one way from the Alde but not the other.

 

[DavidG58]

How old is this MH Paul, if approaching 5 years you could with a fluid change by Alde, it’s not cheap but I am fairly sure they will either get it working or confirm why it doesn’t as part of any service done

 

[bigtwin]

ok, that's what I am looking for....

I know there is a valve on the heat exchange itself which I have checked,

anyway you could describe what you mean? or what the valve looks like? I'm thinking something on the engine side that is shutting off the flow to the exchanger.

The valve we have in our engine bay is operated by a fairly substantial lever (very similar to the valves used to drain the water tanks (and about 4” (10cm) long). However, we didn’t have one on our previous Dethleffs which, AFAIK, only had the little valve on the HX itself.

Ian

 

[DuxDeluxe]

yes, the heat exchanger uses the heat from the engine when travelling to heat the alde rads and give hot water, essentially saving gas.

I think, hot water from the engine coolant system should come to the exchanger whereby a seperate pump then pumps it round the system. At present, I am not getting any heat to the exchanger.

I have to say that mine worked really well on the Le Voyageur. Select temperature, both gas and electric heating disabled and toasty warm at journey’s end. The Alde circulation pump seemed to do it all. No idea how, it is all magic to me

 

[DuxDeluxe]

The valve we have in our engine bay is operated by a fairly substantial lever (very similar to the valves used to drain the water tanks (and about 4” (10cm) long). However, we didn’t have one on our previous Dethleffs which, AFAIK, only had the little valve on the HX itself.

Ian

Yep, same here

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[Oscarbobs]

Dont know if any of this helps as your system could be different from mine.

On my current Cathargo & 2 previous vans I do not turn on the dash fan switch for heating the hab area. That switch is for preheating the engine during freezing temps on mine.

When the engine is off & the Alde Hab circuit is on. The dash fan switch activates a 12v pump to circulate the engine coolant around the engine circuit via the heat exchanger so the engine can be preheated from the Alde habitation circuit. Using it with the engine running can damage the 12v pump & effect engine temps as it will be in direct conflict with the engines water pump.

To heat the hab area whilst underway I only need to ensure that the Alde panel is switched on, electric & gas are switched off & the temperature is set at above ambient. This allows the Alde habitation pump to continue circulating fluid through the heat exchanger therefore being heated by the engine coolant circuit which is being circulated by the engines own water pump.

There is a setting on mine within the Alde panel that requires the Alde circulation pump to be set to constant. I assume this is so you can turn off the gas & electric but the Alde circulation pump still operates the Hab circuit whilst your underway therefore being heated by the engine circuit.

Mine have always had a valve on the heat exchanger that can be switched off in summer to prevent the engine side from circulating through the heat exchanger. The valve may be on the hab circuit on yours.

If your getting no heat from the engine circuit at the heat exchanger something must be blocked/turned off. Could the valve on the heat exchanger be faulty (if its on the engine circuit) or is there another valve/tap under the bonnet.

My van also has an additional Alde Cab heater under the passenger seat linked to the Hab circuit. This has a fan switch low down on the dash that can be used whilst the engine is running to heat the cab. This is a different type of switch and has two fan speeds and an off position. It is not the on/off fan switch I'm referring to above that has a fan & wind symbol on it on my van.

Hope you get it sorted, it is handy having the van warm on arrival.

David

 

[Happy Jack]

Just so you know for future ref, the typical system is usually termed a "calorifier" system.

 

[haganap]

Look in the engine bay where the pipes exit the bulkhead, is there a bleed screw like this on the new black pipe? It doesn’t sound like an air lock though if the engine is getting warm from the Alde.

View attachment 977392

Sounds to me like a valve not opening on the engine circuit when the switch is pressed. It is frustrating as it’s working one way from the Alde but not the other.

Well at least I am looking in the right place. Can't recall seeing anything on the hose but will check again.
I have to say, that i am leaning towards the valve not opening on th engine circuit but have no idea where this would be located.. And it's like performing an operation via a letter box to see anything.

How old is this MH Paul, if approaching 5 years you could with a fluid change by Alde, it’s not cheap but I am fairly sure they will either get it working or confirm why it doesn’t as part of any service done

Its just 4 years old David. I have spoken to Alde and they are happy to do th fluid change and look in to why it's not working, however, they say that they think it is all working from their side and it is likely an engine side issue. Problem is, no one wants to take a look as they don't know what they are looking at, other than TW of course who I "might" have to bite my tongue and get them to look at it if I cant sort it.

 

[jongood]

No extra pump for circulation only the Alde circulation pump fitted

I think they have an additional pump to circulate the water from the engine to the heat exchanger ( mine certainly does)

 

[Roger S]

With ours on the Alde control panel you have to turn the heat source (ie electric or gas) both off for the exchanger will work. Someone in our van forgets to do that

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[haganap]

I think they have an additional pump to circulate the water from the engine to the heat exchanger ( mine certainly does)

yes they do, mine has one too according to N&B themselves. it's operated by the fan switch , My Flair never, it was either on or off by using the valve on the heat exchanger. My Hymer was the same. Another van had one which used the blue radiator button on the hab panel.

I think here lies the problem, there is nothing standard, it's all this and that and opeated in loads of different ways. However, Stefan at N&B walked me through mine and its opeation. Therefore I am confident it's not opeational issue, Ie I'm a bit thick.

I have tried without fan, with fan, without fan but rad symbol activated, with fan and no rad symbol, HX valve in different positions.

What Stefan says is that there ar fuses and a relay behind drivers seat, fuses checked and I can hear relay click when i put the fan button on, this in turn operates something in the engine bay, it's just i dont know what...

But I will find it... somehow, or it's TW a huge hole in my pocket and tears.

 

[jongood]

yes they do, mine has one too according to N&B themselves. it's operated by the fan switch , My Flair never, it was either on or off by using the valve on the heat exchanger. My Hymer was the same. Another van had one which used the blue radiator button on the hab panel.

I think here lies the problem, there is nothing standard, it's all this and that and opeated in loads of different ways. However, Stefan at N&B walked me through mine and its opeation. Therefore I am confident it's not opeational issue, Ie I'm a bit thick.

I have tried without fan, with fan, without fan but rad symbol activated, with fan and no rad symbol, HX valve in different positions.

What Stefan says is that there ar fuses and a relay behind drivers seat, fuses checked and I can hear relay click when i put the fan button on, this in turn operates something in the engine bay, it's just i dont know what...

But I will find it... somehow, or it's TW a huge hole in my pocket and tears.

I think the fan symbol is misleading because its actually a pump. Can you hear the pump? I'm pretty sure we could in our Arto

 

[haganap]

I think the fan symbol is misleading because its actually a pump. Can you hear the pump? I'm pretty sure we could in our Arto

no I cant hear the pump, but ALDE said it was unlikely I would.

 

[AdrianChen]

Our Carthago works exactly as Oscarbobs has described, however on a different system we had, the problem was that the engines main water pump had become a little lazy, and was not moving the coolant through the quite long extended pipework through the exchanger. A new pump sorted it.

Hopefully there is a simpler situation for yours!

If the engine preheat works with the engine off then there must be circulation around the engine circuit with that additional pump, so I cant see there's a blockage stopping the flow from what should be a much more powerful engine water pump, but might just be worth getting the engine coolant system flushed?

 

[funflair]

Yes I am confused by the fan switch Paul, on your CBE control panel you should have a switch that lights up blue when on and it looks like a M inside a radiator, this is the one for the pump to heat the engine (I think it’s third in from the left) is there another switch with a fan on?

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[bigtwin]

If the engine preheat works with the engine off then there must be circulation around the engine circuit with that additional pump, so I cant see there's a blockage stopping the flow

Yes, this is the bit that undermines the suggestion that the HX is valved out and makes this problem a bit of a mystery.

Ian

 

[funflair]

Yes, this is the bit that undermines the suggestion that the HX is valved out and makes this problem a bit of a mystery.

Ian

I would want to actually feel the block getting warm on engine heating, the heat exchanger basically comes off the pipe for the heather matrix so I wonder if this is why heat is instantly available at the Fiat vents.

 

[jongood]

no I cant hear the pump, but ALDE said it was unlikely I would.

Ours was the older model if you listened hard you could hear when it was running, bit of a background hum.

 

[Steve and Denise]

I think they have an additional pump to circulate the water from the engine to the heat exchanger ( mine certainly does)

Not on ours the only pump in the engine compartment is to circulate water to pre-heat the engine from the Alde

 

[funflair]

Not on ours the only pump in the engine compartment is to circulate water to pre-heat the engine from the Alde

Hopefully that is what Jon means

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[jongood]

Not on ours the only pump in the engine compartment is to circulate water to pre-heat the engine from the Alde

Our previous 2010 arto didnt have the pre heat option, I'm fairly sure the supplementary pump operated the heat exchanger side, Don't fortget that the cab floor in a ducato base is a lot lower than Iveco base, does this neccesitate the pump?

 

[funflair]

Our previous 2010 arto didnt have the pre heat option, I'm fairly sure the supplementary pump operated the heat exchanger side, Don't fortget that the cab floor in a ducato base is a lot lower than Iveco base, does this neccesitate the pump?

Basically No our Flair was lower and only used the pump for engine heating I do remember Robin always saying there was something to switch on the heat exchanger in his Arto though.

 

[haganap]

Yes I am confused by the fan switch Paul, on your CBE control panel you should have a switch that lights up blue when on and it looks like a M inside a radiator, this is the one for the pump to heat the engine (I think it’s third in from the left) is there another switch with a fan on?

Yes. The one you mention that looks like a radiator is to pre heat the engine.

The fan is on the dash board in the cluster with start stop etc

 

[EuroTrotters]

I fitted my own heat exchanger on our previous Frankia.

The Mercedes Chassis came with a Diesel ADD heater. That is an Eberspacher that could be used, Only when the engine is running.

I replaced the ADD switch with an ADD/Manual Mercedes Switch. Then paid Mercedes to Program the ECU to allow the Diesel Heater to be activated by the on-board computer, the new switch or optional FOB.

I then looped the pipework from the Eberspacher , to the heat exchanger and then to the ALDE. The Mercedes Factory installed pump boosted flow to the heat exchanger.

This had two benefits:

The diesel heater could now be used without the engine running, meaning if we ran out of LPG on EHU, then we would not be without heating.

Also, in very cold climates, Norway as an example. The heater could be run along with engine to boost the ALDE.

What can happen, is on some installations, there is a non-return flow valve installed in the system, in addition to the ALDE non return valve .These valve bodies are usually brass, but the valve inside is plastic/nylon and can stick, blocking flow both ways. So haganap night want to look for one of these buried in the cabinet/floor. But also, there could be an additional pump installed in the system to boost flow from the engine.

 

[stewartwebr]

Well at least I am looking in the right place. Can't recall seeing anything on the hose but will check again.
I have to say, that i am leaning towards the valve not opening on th engine circuit but have no idea where this would be located.. And it's like performing an operation via a letter box to see anything.





Its just 4 years old David. I have spoken to Alde and they are happy to do th fluid change and look in to why it's not working, however, they say that they think it is all working from their side and it is likely an engine side issue. Problem is, no one wants to take a look as they don't know what they are looking at, other than TW of course who I "might" have to bite my tongue and get them to look at it if I cant sort it.

I would suggest based on the price they shall charge and the probability of them fixing it you would be better giving Travelworld a miss and get yourself across to Polch.

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[WESTY66]

Dont know if any of this helps as your system could be different from mine.

On my current Cathargo & 2 previous vans I do not turn on the dash fan switch for heating the hab area. That switch is for preheating the engine during freezing temps on mine.

When the engine is off & the Alde Hab circuit is on. The dash fan switch activates a 12v pump to circulate the engine coolant around the engine circuit via the heat exchanger so the engine can be preheated from the Alde habitation circuit. Using it with the engine running can damage the 12v pump & effect engine temps as it will be in direct conflict with the engines water pump.

To heat the hab area whilst underway I only need to ensure that the Alde panel is switched on, electric & gas are switched off & the temperature is set at above ambient. This allows the Alde habitation pump to continue circulating fluid through the heat exchanger therefore being heated by the engine coolant circuit which is being circulated by the engines own water pump.

There is a setting on mine within the Alde panel that requires the Alde circulation pump to be set to constant. I assume this is so you can turn off the gas & electric but the Alde circulation pump still operates the Hab circuit whilst your underway therefore being heated by the engine circuit.

Mine have always had a valve on the heat exchanger that can be switched off in summer to prevent the engine side from circulating through the heat exchanger. The valve may be on the hab circuit on yours.

If your getting no heat from the engine circuit at the heat exchanger something must be blocked/turned off. Could the valve on the heat exchanger be faulty (if its on the engine circuit) or is there another valve/tap under the bonnet.

My van also has an additional Alde Cab heater under the passenger seat linked to the Hab circuit. This has a fan switch low down on the dash that can be used whilst the engine is running to heat the cab. This is a different type of switch and has two fan speeds and an off position. It is not the on/off fan switch I'm referring to above that has a fan & wind symbol on it on my van.

Hope you get it sorted, it is handy having the van warm on arrival.

David

Our Carthago works exactly as Oscarbobs has described, however on a different system we had, the problem was that the engines main water pump had become a little lazy, and was not moving the coolant through the quite long extended pipework through the exchanger. A new pump sorted it.

Hopefully there is a simpler situation for yours!

If the engine preheat works with the engine off then there must be circulation around the engine circuit with that additional pump, so I cant see there's a blockage stopping the flow from what should be a much more powerful engine water pump, but might just be worth getting the engine coolant system flushed?

Exactly the same as mine I have a switch to turn a fan on to circulate the air from under the drivers seat (LHD) and another switch to warm the engine coolant up from the hot alde circuit. The alde pump as mentioned Must be Running with the desired temp in the hab area with NO gas or mains electric selected!
I too am perplexed as to why the warm liquid is going one way and not the other, either way the if the engine valve is open it would receive warm liquid from the hab alde and if the alde valve is open it would receive warm liquid from the engine, but the alde valve must be open to send the warm liquid to the engine, and the engine valve must be open for the alde to receive it

 

[Lenny HB]

I'm wondering if there is an electric 3 way valve somewhere under the bonnet that is failing to change over.

 

[jongood]

I would suggest based on the price they shall charge and the probability of them fixing it you would be better giving Travelworld a miss and get yourself across to Polch.

Alde at Wellingborough would probably be the better solution for this particular issue

 

[haganap]

Alde at Wellingborough would probably be the better solution for this particular issue

They aren't.

I've already spoken to them. Because it's a cab issue they can't assist

 

[Silver-Fox]

I’m not familiar with this system but it should just be basic engineering of fluid control.

This is how ours works, all be it a cheaper older system.

1 Start engine and coolant circulates through the engine via mechanical water pump (usually)

2 At the a given temperature,around 90 degrees the thermostat opens.
This allows the coolant to circulate through the engine Bay Area.

3 Press button, pull lever or rotate knob to red setting, this allows the mechanical valve to open that in turn allows engine coolant to get to the heat exchanger.

Irrespective of what happens after doesn’t matter as the coolant from the engine is only there to transfer heat into another “radiator” that’s connected to your hab heating system.

Ours just heats the “extra” radiator looks like an engine radiator and a fan blows the heat into our hab area.

Your system has radiators and is totally separate to the engine cooling system.

Valve in engine bay not working equals no heat going into pipes that go to heat exchanger.

Hope that helps, if I’m totally wrong call me a nob and I’ll shut up

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