The Electric Future of Motorhomes and Camper Vans

[Peppadog]

Because new ICE powered cars will be banned from 2030, development of EV' and, later, Hydrogen powered vehicles will be faster than some of you think. The cost of running a petrol or diesel powered vehicle will become so high that Electric will be the way to go.

This is all for now though. We are in the VHS / Beta period on this. Once it gets to cd's level, we will all have electric cars. Maybe they will levitate for efficiency. Who knows whats coming in 50 years!? Sadly, I doubt I will see much of it.

 

[DDJC]

We'll see them in the next few years. However, the economics will favour delivery vans first.

Doubt it.
At least I doubt that anyone except Elon Mask and Zuckerberk will be able to afford one.

 

[Coolcats]

People can still buy a horse and cart to use on the road. Steam engines can also be used so I suspect ICE vehicles will still be around for generations the only factor will be how much it costs to run.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Because new ICE powered cars will be banned from 2030, development of EV' and, later, Hydrogen powered vehicles will be faster than some of you think. The cost of running a petrol or diesel powered vehicle will become so high that Electric will be the way to go.

This is all for now though. We are in the VHS / Beta period on this. Once it gets to cd's level, we will all have electric cars. Maybe they will levitate for efficiency. Who knows whats coming in 50 years!? Sadly, I doubt I will see much of it.

The cost of running legacy ICE cars should be affordable for the foreseeable future. Same as many classic cars today, supported by skilled backstreet businesses manufacturing spare parts. If it shoots up, that is deliberate policy to force millions of marginal motorists off the roads altogether.

 

[cmcardle75]

Doubt it.
At least I doubt that anyone except Elon Mask and Zuckerberk will be able to afford one.

Seriously, for an extra £20,000, they could make a delivery van using today's technology and prices that would effectively do the required job. For a logistics company, that van might be doing 100,000 miles a year. They'll dump it after maybe 250,000 miles and buy another one.

If that is the case, (after its brief tenure before being sold to be converted into a PVC), it will have burnt about £53,000 in diesel and cost about a tenth of that in electricity, plus saved a load of servicing. That £20,000 extra purchase cost make a lot of sense. Very quickly. As soon as these vans are available, they will sell as many as they can make.

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[Coolcats]

Genuine question, so what 'soul' does an oil burner car have that a EV does not? From the bottom line and link on your posting regarding hearing the "fearsome BRM V16 GP engine fire up", I have to assume perhaps the soul you mention are the vroom vroom noises. OK, each to their own.

its not just the vroom vroom noise, it is also balance, poise, response, smell, it involves all the senses in a way an EV does not. But I get it if you have no passion for Ice Cars, I understand that you wouldn't think that a Car can have a soul....

 

[cyberyacht]

The thing is, cars make up a fraction of the overall carbon footprint of the country. We could change OH's eight year old runabout (2500-3000 miles pa) for an electric and massively increase our carbon footprint.

 

[glenn2926]

Because new ICE powered cars will be banned from 2030, development of EV' and, later, Hydrogen powered vehicles will be faster than some of you think. The cost of running a petrol or diesel powered vehicle will become so high that Electric will be the way to go.

This is all for now though. We are in the VHS / Beta period on this. Once it gets to cd's level, we will all have electric cars. Maybe they will levitate for efficiency. Who knows whats coming in 50 years!? Sadly, I doubt I will see much of it.

I fear you are correct re the cost of running ICE powered cars but the way it will be done is they will increase the cost of running ICE powered cars rather than reducing the cost of battery cars.
If battery cars could do all the things a ICE powered car can do and be cheaper the government wouldn’t need to ban ICE powered cars. Natural selection would do it for them. Now I wonder why it’s not being done this way?

 

[joe and sue]

Went to local Brandon Tool hire this morning, saw this on the counter, 20 ltr bag in box works out £1.70 / Ltd, when I asked about it was told that bulk quantities also available, but they were not sure about prices.
Why is this alternative not being promoted by gov and fuel companies.
Will dig deeper when I have time.
Looked at the website and looks interesting
Joe

 

[chrisgreen]

Went to local Brandon Tool hire this morning, saw this on the counter, 20 ltr bag in box works out £1.70 / Ltd, when I asked about it was told that bulk quantities also available, but they were not sure about prices.
Why is this alternative not being promoted by gov and fuel companies.
Will dig deeper when I have time.
Looked at the website and looks interesting
Joe

but it only reduces NOx by 30% an EV emits no NOx, and NOx is what gives people breathing problems in built-up areas.

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[Mike Rivers]

Have faith. Amazon already switching to electric vans. The range is getting better and is improving all the time. Rapid charging points are becoming more widely available. In summary we’re all at the start of an electric revolution. These things develop a momentum of their own.

 

[joe and sue]

Have faith. Amazon already switching to electric vans. The range is getting better and is improving all the time. Rapid charging points are becoming more widely available. In summary we’re all at the start of an electric revolution. These things develop a momentum of their own.

Not seen an electric Amazon van, or any others, around here
How is the infrastructure to support all of these EV's going to be built in just 9 years?
Will take that long to write the method statements and risk assessments

 

[Tombola]

Seriously, for an extra £20,000, they could make a delivery van using today's technology and prices that would effectively do the required job. For a logistics company, that van might be doing 100,000 miles a year. They'll dump it after maybe 250,000 miles and buy another one.

If that is the case, (after its brief tenure before being sold to be converted into a PVC), it will have burnt about £53,000 in diesel and cost about a tenth of that in electricity, plus saved a load of servicing. That £20,000 extra purchase cost make a lot of sense. Very quickly. As soon as these vans are available, they will sell as many as they can make.

Which is exactly why Amazon, DPD, UPS, etc are gearing up with leccy yvans.
Do we think its because they are all eco warriors, nah, (ok incentives) but mainly it is down to bottom line $ and gearing up for the future.
here is another delivering in North Wales yesterday.

If Electric cars, vans, and whatever were not cheaper to run and own long term no government could survive throwing all the population onto them. This is why they give "incentives" "grants" in the early days , and when the production grows, tech improves and prices come down the incentives wil be removed

 

[Tombola]

Because new ICE powered cars will be banned from 2030, development of EV' and, later, Hydrogen powered vehicles will be faster than some of you think. The cost of running a petrol or diesel powered vehicle will become so high that Electric will be the way to go.

And fuelling them could become more difficult, as filling stations - petrol deliveries become less important to the companies due to profit scale.

 

[Rapidoman 2011]

At the end of the day it boils down to how you generate all the electric needed, wind farms, solar, wave won’t get any where near. At the moment we are still burning coal but some dimwit decided it would be more friendly to burn wood. So that’s it is it, cut down as many trees as you can, then last week we find out that burning wood is more harmful than coal. At the end of the day there is a place for small electric cars for families that do low mileage on a daily or weekly basis. The only reason for a new diesel car ban is vote grabbing. Vote for me l am green. The world as a whole is changing, it’s now being run by kids on social media and as we all know, your popularity is up one minute then your sacked. My thoughts are look at the Amazon rain forest, football fields being cut down each day, time for the world to step in, see what’s needed to help the farmers then try and stop the cutting down of the forest. Simple things can make a big difference, no need to tell the people you need a new car, new boiler, new hob in the end, oh by the way a big government loan so your in debt till you die.

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[Pablotti]

Electric trucks (for cities) are coming...

Volta Trucks - Home

Electric trucks for sustainable cities, with people at the heart of everything we do.

voltatrucks.com

 

[SuperMike]

Yesterday on LBC, the Business Secretary said that at the moment we are installing 500 charging points per month, that makes 6000 per year. That’s going to help, we better get a move on.

Also, let’s talk about charging manners. Let’s say your street of ten houses has two charging points, who goes first and do you get up during the night to unplug and let somebody else have a go.

 

[buttons]

At the end of the day it boils down to how you generate all the electric needed, wind farms, solar, wave won’t get any where near. At the moment we are still burning coal but some dimwit decided it would be more friendly to burn wood. So that’s it is it, cut down as many trees as you can, then last week we find out that burning wood is more harmful than coal. At the end of the day there is a place for small electric cars for families that do low mileage on a daily or weekly basis. The only reason for a new diesel car ban is vote grabbing. Vote for me l am green. The world as a whole is changing, it’s now being run by kids on social media and as we all know, your popularity is up one minute then your sacked. My thoughts are look at the Amazon rain forest, football fields being cut down each day, time for the world to step in, see what’s needed to help the farmers then try and stop the cutting down of the forest. Simple things can make a big difference, no need to tell the people you need a new car, new boiler, new hob in the end, oh by the way a big government loan so your in debt till you die.

That is just the start, where are we going to charge these vehicles? Everyone would prefer a home charger, even if you have room for off roar charging what about your domestic 240v 60amp supply. I have no idea if this is correct but....
Most Electric Vehicles can take in about 32 amps/hour , adding around 25 miles of Range Per Hour of charging, thus a 32-amp charging station is a good choice for most vehicles. You may also want to increase your charging speed time so a faster 50-amp charger that could add about 37 miles of range in an hours charge.
Put the kettle on or use the elec shower and you could blow your main fuse.

 

[Spriddler]

no need to tell the people you need a new car, new boiler, new hob in the end, oh by the way a big government loan so your in debt till you die.

Whilst we're putting ourselves in financial hock to reduce the U.K's 1% share of global emissions I must do some research to see the reduction programmes being promoted by China, USA and India to reduce their 50% contribution. However, much of their CO2 pollution is due to producing goods cheaply on 'our' behalf.

Global CO2 emissions.
Data updated Aug 2020

Each Country's Share of CO2 Emissions

Which 20 countries emit the most carbon dioxide? You may be surprised.

www.ucsusa.org

 

[Coolcats]

That is just the start, where are we going to charge these vehicles? Everyone would prefer a home charger, even if you have room for off roar charging what about your domestic 240v 60amp supply. I have no idea if this is correct but....
Most Electric Vehicles can take in about 32 amps/hour , adding around 25 miles of Range Per Hour of charging, thus a 32-amp charging station is a good choice for most vehicles. You may also want to increase your charging speed time so a faster 50-amp charger that could add about 37 miles of range in an hours charge.
Put the kettle on or use the elec shower and you could blow your main fuse.

Might have to switch the hot tub off whilst charging the EV's many homes have more than one car

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[joe and sue]

Yesterday on LBC, the Business Secretary said that at the moment we are installing 500 charging points per month, that makes 6000 per year. That’s going to help, we better get a move on.

Also, let’s talk about charging manners. Let’s say your street of ten houses has two charging points, who goes first and do you get up during the night to unplug and let somebody else have a go.

Where is all the electricity to feed those charging points coming from ???
No-one can / will answer this question

 

[Coolcats]

And fuelling them could become more difficult, as filling stations - petrol deliveries become less important to the companies due to profit scale.

Maybe but if a vehicle lasts 20 years+ that's an awful lot of vehicles to convert to EV's so it will probably be 2040's by the time Ice Cars start becoming rarer

 

[busbuddy]

Electric trucks (for cities) are coming...

Volta Trucks - Home

Electric trucks for sustainable cities, with people at the heart of everything we do.

voltatrucks.com

Had electric 7.5t trucks when I was working at tnt a decade ago, they all got transferred to the london depots when the lez came in

 

[Coolcats]

Where is all the electricity to feed those charging points coming from ???
No-one can / will answer this question

France

Ooops

Maybe rather than the government paying £5k subsidies for heat pumps (which can be inefficient) how about letting the consumer choose the green technology £5k towards maybe but solar panels/ lithium storage would be good but that wouldn't keep the energy sector happy

 

[Garry - June]

I find it hilarious people get so worked up about this...firstly ICE vehicles will be around on our roads up until 2050....secondly I'm sure in that time if they manage to overcome all the issues over cost,range,and charging then none of us would object...in the meantime why worry about it..most of us are too old to see the way future pans out anyway...

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[cmcardle75]

Maybe but if a vehicle lasts 20 years+ that's an awful lot of vehicles to convert to EV's so it will probably be 2040's by the time Ice Cars start becoming rarer

Although the increase in proportion of electric cars actually driving about will be much quicker. Most mileage is done by relatively new cars (which are more likely to be electric than older cars). And for these newer cars, the highest mileage ones have a particular incentive to be electric due to the way Total Cost of Ownership pans out. ICE cars will be much more likely to stay on the drive due to the economics. Or, alternatively you could express this as low mileage drivers will select ICE cars (both new and older) due to the economics.

 

[ronecc1]

I think once boris and carrie have gone and we get a sensible person running the country, this all electric nonsense will vanish. Britain produces 1% of the worlds pollution, and China 30% and climbing. As long as the west keeps having everything produced by the Communist Regime, it will not change. It is very hypocritical of boris and co to say we will be green, when all they are doing is shifting the onus onto China. Electric cars will have their place for a while, but it is not feasible to supply every terraced/garden fronted house with charging points and every household/block of flats with £10,000 heat source pumps (that you will need back up boilers to give some heat).

 

[Coolcats]

I think once boris and carrie have gone and we get a sensible person running the country, this all electric nonsense will vanish. Britain produces 1% of the worlds pollution, and China 30% and climbing. As long as the west keeps having everything produced by the Communist Regime, it will not change. It is very hypocritical of boris and co to say we will be green, when all they are doing is shifting the onus onto China. Electric cars will have their place for a while, but it is not feasible to supply every terraced/garden fronted house with charging points and every household/block of flats with £10,000 heat source pumps (that you will need back up boilers to give some heat).

Regarding ICE Vs to EV Every manufacturer is switching to Electric, even Lotus has said the Emira is the last ICE powered Lotus

Excitement beyond the ordinary. The official website of Lotus Cars. Revolutionary automotive technology and design with racing pedigree. Born in Hethel, England.

Excitement beyond the ordinary. The official website of Lotus Cars. Revolutionary automotive technology and design with racing pedigree. Born in Hethel, England.

www.lotuscars.com

Heat Source pumps can provide sufficient warmth if a building is sufficiently insulated, I was in an apartment doing some work recently I asked if I could open the door to cool a little and was told the door was open and the apartment stays pretty warm even in winter I suspect that would be a suitable candidate for a Heat Pump.

Solar Panels and Lithium to stop the energy is another way to go.

Stating we only produce 1% of the worlds pollution is a bit of greenwashing as many of our goods are manufactured in countries with a bigger pollution number, you can make that number go down by producing goods here but then our pollution number would go up......

The only way to make our number go down is a) less consumption b) invest in renewables

 

[Gromett]

I've been think of what the future of motorhomes and camper vans will be once the switch to full electric is complete.

It might take a while but at some point the only viable option will be electric vans. Anything the burns a fuel is going to be priced off the road.

I know a lot of people might be worried about range but I don't see that as an issue if you're heading to a camp site that has charging point, or destination charging. Now finding a site that has charging (not just shore power) will be a whole other issue.

Heating and hot water in an all electric MoHo will be a massive drain on the battery so wild camping will have some challenges.

What are your thoughts on the electric future for motorhomes and camper vans?

I am looking forward to it to be honest.

I tend to use CL's so would charge up just before arriving at the site to ensure I have a full charge.

I did some calculations some time ago with regards to how much electric a well insulated van would use over a 24 hour period to heat and it worked out at less than 6KWh. If you van has a 70KWh battery this is less than 10% of the range per day.
If you are on hookup with a 6Amp limit then you would more than offset this. With the advantage that the built in inverter would allow you to peak over this.

As for Wild Camping. I only stay in one place for a maximum of 2 nights when wilding, so this is well within the capabilities of a van with a decent range battery.

The other advantage of this is that your entire van would be electric, so no stopping to get gas bottles, diesel and finding sites with EHU to top up batteries in inclement weather.
You would probably also dump solar panels as they wouldn't make enough of a difference to be worth having. B2B chargers, solar controllers and lots of other things will also be a thing of the past.

A simple halogen hob and oven, an 800 watt water heater and even a microwave would be sufficient for most people.

I know this won't be liked by a lot of people but I am actually looking forward it, especially if I can get one that self drives Imagine getting in and just saying take me to X,Y or Z and then relaxing for the journey.

 

[Dave LL]

I am curious to find that nobody has mentioned the costs that “cannot be spoken about”
The government are keeping extremely quiet when it comes to taxation in all the forms that affect ICE vehicles.
This, currently massive, source of government income is quietly being savagely eroded and will need to be replaced. Inevitably the powers that be will leave things until too late and the new taxation needed to replace the existing losses will be higher than we pay today.

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