The Electric Future of Motorhomes and Camper Vans

[RubyOptics]

Here in Katowice, Poland we have an E.Leclerc S/market CP right opposite our window there are 4x Tesla charging points and we see 1-2 cars a week using them, so take-up of EV vehicles here seems to be slow.

Geoff

Here in Warsaw however, the number of EVs on the road seems to be increasing every time I have to go there! A large number of BMW i3 which I suspect are being imported from Germany taking advantage of the incredibly low tax on electric vehicles. There's also a number of "shared vehicle" EV schemes with a similar proposal to that of electric scooters in that you simply use an app to access one on the street and pay for the mileage you use. Obviously not for everyone and somewhat unreliable in terms of access to a vehicle, but certainly solves a need for some.

I think that, in general, we are at the tipping point in many ways. One being the way we perceive vehicle useage. It wasn't that many years ago when driving 300 miles in a go was nearly unthinkable, for comfort reasons if not anything else. We were "happy" to put up with incredibly short service intervals and with the need to "tinker" with engines, not because we wanted to particularly but because that it what the vehicles at the time demanded/required.

I see the rise of the EV being somewhat similar in many ways to the rise of the modern car and in particular the rise of the reliable Japanese motor manufacturers in the 60's and 70's. There will be opposition, there will be those that embrace it with open arms, but either way, it is here to stay whether you like it or not. Price is, yes, a major problem for many, especially low-mileage users. To counter this I would suggest a look through some of the recent threads and posts regarding several low-cost EV's. Do they have a low range? Yes, they do. 80-100 miles typically. But if you are saying you are a low mileage user, then for the majority of your use case this simply isn't going to be an issue whatsoever. For those times that you need a longer range then either alternative transport or hiring a ICE or EV with longer range is, again, an option.

Even as the owner of a new motorhome, I am rather excited about the possibility of an all electric motorhome at some point in the future. Would one based on current technology serve my needs? No, not really if I'm being honest, however that is the beauty of the current situation. The EV industry is improving, refining and innovating as such an incredible pace that I feel certain that there will be a suitable vehicle in the near future. Whether this be through relaxation of the 3500kg limit, through a new type of battery chemistry or something else entirely, I have no idea at all. However, the possibility of a motorhome using one single power source, one that is clean and can be harvested by the vehicle itself (given of course access to sunlight!) could be an incredibly compelling one.

 

[Tombola]

Even as the owner of a new motorhome, I am rather excited about the possibility of an all electric motorhome at some point in the future.

And so am I, the battery tech will dictate this as it improves and proces keep falling

Charged up at home ready to go, plugged in on ehu keeping topped up, and meanwhile cooking on halogen, lighting, heating /hot water all from eh 100+kwh sat under your feet .

 

[Spriddler]

This is a rosey view of Parking in London, it is really hard to park outside your own house let alone have an electrical point.

For many years the people living in or the commuters working in Brighton have been parking in out-of-town streets about two miles away and using the bus. Previously quiet residential roads have become clogged rat runs.

 

[Tombola]

This Picture is a car park 30 miles outside of London for two large ex office blocks converted to apartments, So whilst a hundred or so cars can park off road who is going to pay for charging points here?

depends, it is one posiiblity as staff incentives/bonus, just as parking is used as a bonus/incentive in some companies now.
You points have been heard for centuries
The fact is, sure there are plenty variables, but thsi has been the same since year dot, form progressing from man power, to horse power. Similar things were said.
Where are you going to keep/feed all the horses
Then the same from horse power to steam power..TRAINS...bah, no chance, huge monsters, where will everyone get on, get off, who will build all the rails.
then from rail to Cars, no where to park them (most houses were terrace just as you state) to fuel them (no petrol stations back then, just chemists will fuel by the pint...blah blah blah.

You are mising a point, economy gets over all these problems if it makes sound economic sense, ways round these issues will be found, just as they have before.
Its far far easier to be a naysayer like you (not a realist ....a naysayer) and say something will never happen, than say AH, but what it we could do x y or z.

Im not saying Evs are the future for the world or the end is nigh, Im saying problems are there to be solved and hopefully try improve the world, rather than just be bah humbug.

They said man cant fly
They said man cant walk on the moon
They said loads of deseases woudl be the end
Make fire whats that all about
The what ? WHEEL? duh get a grip
The worlds what ROUND...prove it

Ive seen it all before about naysayers...your posts are just the modern day version
Id say all Cancers will be cured one day !!!(massive improvements already) you'd probably say nah, they cant cos the funding isnt enough and no one has enough room to park to get to the labs.

 

[nicholsong]

And so am I, the battery tech will dictate this as it improves and proces keep falling

Charged up at home ready to go, plugged in on ehu keeping topped up, and meanwhile cooking on halogen, lighting, heating /hot water all from eh 100+kwh sat under your feet .

Not for a week or two off-grid you won't.

We have just been on a Greek island (my favourite) for 2 weeks which has no campsites. Also has no LPG or gas re-fill stations.

We managed but would have been impossible with an EV MH.

Geoff

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[cmcardle75]

And so am I, the battery tech will dictate this as it improves and proces keep falling

Charged up at home ready to go, plugged in on ehu keeping topped up, and meanwhile cooking on halogen, lighting, heating /hot water all from eh 100+kwh sat under your feet .

I hope you meant cooking on induction. The only halogen hob I used was terrible, significantly worse than standard ceramic ones.

 

[cmcardle75]

Not for a week or two off-grid you won't.

We have just been on a Greek island (my favourite) for 2 weeks which has no campsites. Also has no LPG or gas re-fill stations.

We managed but would have been impossible with an EV MH.

I don't think anyone has said that the infrastructure is available yet. Certainly not on remote Greek islands.

 

[Jamesh]

The flaw in that assumption is the inevitable degredation of the HV battery and cost of its replacement.

When we consider the Bangernomics aspect the EV is in unknown territory escpecially the 1st generation EVs. I doubt that things like G-Wiz are still holding their value. Old Nissan Leafs at £5k are cheap because they are perceived as low range money pits.

At 120,000 miles the ICE vehicle is in its prime. Yesterday I saw an article about the most common car models that have passed the 750,000 mile mark and are still going strong. Even includes Astras and Fiestas.

Just like Nokia 3310!

I wonder how many cycles your average phone does in a typical useage 600?

A car being much larger in terms of battery will cycle less often and and therefore have a much longer life 12 years on average 20yrs as an outlier?

Cheers James

 

[Tombola]

I hope you meant cooking on induction. The only halogen hob I used was terrible, significantly worse than standard ceramic ones.

shit lol....yeah the bright orangey ones

 

[Coolcats]

depends, it is one posiiblity as staff incentives/bonus, just as parking is used as a bonus/incentive in some companies now.
You points have been heard for centuries
The fact is, sure there are plenty variables, but thsi has been the same since year dot, form progressing from man power, to horse power. Similar things were said.
Where are you going to keep/feed all the horses
Then the same from horse power to steam power..TRAINS...bah, no chance, huge monsters, where will everyone get on, get off, who will build all the rails.
then from rail to Cars, no where to park them (most houses were terrace just as you state) to fuel them (no petrol stations back then, just chemists will fuel by the pint...blah blah blah.

You are mising a point, economy gets over all these problems if it makes sound economic sense, ways round these issues will be found, just as they have before.
Its far far easier to be a naysayer like you (not a realist ....a naysayer) and say something will never happen, than say AH, but what it we could do x y or z.

Im not saying Evs are the future for the world or the end is nigh, Im saying problems are there to be solved and hopefully try improve the world, rather than just be bah humbug.

They said man cant fly
They said man cant walk on the moon
They said loads of deseases woudl be the end
Make fire whats that all about
The what ? WHEEL? duh get a grip
The worlds what ROUND...prove it

Ive seen it all before about naysayers...your posts are just the modern day version
Id say all Cancers will be cured one day !!!(massive improvements already) you'd probably say nah, they cant cos the funding isnt enough and no one has enough room to park to get to the labs.

This is not a staff car park this is for the leaseholders of the apartments

it was a rhetorical question in terms of who will pay for charging points here and it will be the leaseholders not the landlords in the way that cladding that needs replacing is currently not the builders/architects/suppliers/landlords but the leaseholders, those without off street parking will be able to charge thier vehicles but this will be at an additional cost if there is no off street parking.

I am not saying it won't happen but as ever those with will have more access to home charging and associated rates and those without will just have pay more and suddenly an EV isn't so cheap anymore.

You can have your car converted to run on Batteries here is one London company that does it I did hear on the radio a London company that will monitor your car then come along and charge it ready for you to use, although not sure I want a concierge service like that.

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[Tombola]

This is not a staff car park this is for the leaseholders of the apartments

it was a rhetorical question in terms of who will pay for charging points here and it will be the leaseholders not the landlords in the way that cladding that needs replacing is currently not the builders/architects/suppliers/landlords but the leaseholders, those without off street parking will be able to charge thier vehicles but this will be at an additional cost if there is no off street parking.

I am not saying it won't happen but as ever those with will have more access to home charging and associated rates and those without will just have pay more and suddenly an EV isn't so cheap anymore.

You can have your car converted to run on Batteries here is one London company that does it I did hear on the radio a London company that will monitor your car then come along and charge it ready for you to use, although not sure I want a concierge service like that.

Understood.
Yeah i see even Victron was doing a remote charge unit for Tesla in somewhere I think Norway?
dunno...maybe an RAC type "fill up" service to get you juice to the next charger as you say, they already do it for scooters and have a van whizzing round topping them up/changing them. A lot easier than cars of course. But even that...if you look at the UK charge network now, its huge, even low KW chargers for emergencies they reckon are never more thna 15 minute drive.

I duuno there are millions of variables but most, if not all will be overcome.
Its like I heard the other day, some remote villages are now 20 or 30 miles from the nearest petrol station, all turned into other things/car washes or sold off. They are going to be ones that suffer, as ICE vehicles and support for them decline, so EV and home charge facility will be better suited to that lot too.

It doesnt answer your questions regards the car park and leaseholders above, but most new builds and public ground works now are having cables laid at the same time for charge points drawing of the lighting ducting runs for future proofing. (grants )

 

[Puddleduck]

Solar forecourt scheme proposed

A solar electric forecourt featuring a large solar farm and range of facilities for motorists has been proposed for a site in the North East.

www.insidermedia.com

This might be the future!

 

[Coolcats]

Solar forecourt scheme proposed

A solar electric forecourt featuring a large solar farm and range of facilities for motorists has been proposed for a site in the North East.

www.insidermedia.com

This might be the future!

indeed it may do plus the panels could generate Hydrogen as well

 

[joe and sue]

Can't see any spaces for MH's caravans, larger vans etc,

 

[Bryn_Middx]

As a newbie to the Forum, I have enjoyed an exciting ride in a dual-motor Tesla, and offered sympathy as another Tesla owner tried to find suitable fast charge points between London and Truro. I am not planning to buy one. Meanwhile, how about a recent 2022 Ducato range advert?
https://www.fiatprofessional.com/uk/ducato-electric-van/range
It will not suit my pocket, but they are coming.

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[Tombola]

as another Tesla owner tried to find suitable fast charge points between London and Truro

lol...been there done that
It has improved now though

 

[Coolcats]

As a newbie to the Forum, I have enjoyed an exciting ride in a dual-motor Tesla, and offered sympathy as another Tesla owner tried to find suitable fast charge points between London and Truro. I am not planning to buy one. Meanwhile, how about a recent 2022 Ducato range advert?
https://www.fiatprofessional.com/uk/ducato-electric-van/range
It will not suit my pocket, but they are coming.

its coming for sure however if your a delivery company its probably ideal as Fiat say "Built with urban deliveries in mind, the top speed is just 62 mph" So it probably won't be until mid this decade or a bit later before the technology arrives to allow better range and more suitability for these to get anywhere near what is needed for MoHo use.

 

[Puddleduck]

As a newbie to the Forum, I have enjoyed an exciting ride in a dual-motor Tesla, and offered sympathy as another Tesla owner tried to find suitable fast charge points between London and Truro. I am not planning to buy one. Meanwhile, how about a recent 2022 Ducato range advert?
https://www.fiatprofessional.com/uk/ducato-electric-van/range
It will not suit my pocket, but they are coming.

That is the sort of vehicle to suit the WAV market - assuming that the ramp and tie down points can be fitted

 

[SuperMike]

It doesn't have to work like that. Your notional 10 users all connect to a single charger with 10 connection points. You tell your car when it is next required. The charger determines which vehicle(s) is/are charged and in what order. Most vehicles are unlikely to need a full charge and that information too can be used by the charger.

That would be good, but consider the scenario of ten terraced houses in a road where you can only park one side because of the road width. If the charger is in the middle then that's five either side of the charging point and the last one, each side, now out on a very long cable.

 

[tonyidle]

That would be good, but consider the scenario of ten terraced houses in a road where you can only park one side because of the road width. If the charger is in the middle then that's five either side of the charging point and the last one, each side, now out on a very long cable.

I've no real idea how, or if, it would work but comms technology is going to have to play a large part. When I described a possible solution I didn't mean that users would cluster round a multi- outlet charger. I envisage one fast charger for a street, or area, with its outlets distributed via, say, lamp posts or other nodes. The single fast charger could decide which outlets to power, and when, depending on user need.

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[SpeedyDux]

As a newbie to the Forum, I have enjoyed an exciting ride in a dual-motor Tesla, and offered sympathy as another Tesla owner tried to find suitable fast charge points between London and Truro. I am not planning to buy one. Meanwhile, how about a recent 2022 Ducato range advert?
https://www.fiatprofessional.com/uk/ducato-electric-van/range
It will not suit my pocket, but they are coming.

Interesting. The range has increased from the first e-Ducato offering a while ago. Correct me if I am wrong - that was a maximum 100 miles.

The questions are going to be (a) how much do the battery modules weigh and (b) how much user payload will be left after conversion into a MH. The starting point seems to be 900Kg payload for the bare van. Not a lot.

The Ducato wasn't designed as a BEV so the Control Panel thingy is a small tablet stuck onto the dashboard when it needs to be integrated into the dashboard itself. The longer range 79 kwh 5 battery module configuration looks like the space for a waste tank is gone as might also be the spare wheel.

When is a major converter going to produce a working prototype MH on this e-Ducato? Does anyone know?

 

[tonyidle]

An interesting Hydrogen video?

 

[Bryn_Middx]

At the moment, the brochures for working vans match the Fiat e-Ducato against the Ford E-Transit for 2022, with speculation that the Ford has the edge for cost. Both seem to need power at 75 to 80kWh for a 200 mile range so will there be enough space within the chassis, while leaving some payload and staying inside 3500kg?

 

[Coolcats]

Interesting. The range has increased from the first e-Ducato offering a while ago. Correct me if I am wrong - that was a maximum 100 miles.

The questions are going to be (a) how much do the battery modules weigh and (b) how much user payload will be left after conversion into a MH. The starting point seems to be 900Kg payload for the bare van. Not a lot.

The Ducato wasn't designed as a BEV so the Control Panel thingy is a small tablet stuck onto the dashboard when it needs to be integrated into the dashboard itself. The longer range 79 kwh 5 battery module configuration looks like the space for a waste tank is gone as might also be the spare wheel.

When is a major converter going to produce a working prototype MH on this e-Ducato? Does anyone know?

Why would a converter do this other than a prototype as the manufacturer states it’s for local deliveries. Also many Ducato’s are no longer supplied with a spare wheel.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Why would a converter do this other than a prototype as the manufacturer states it’s for local deliveries. Also many Ducato’s are no longer supplied with a spare wheel.

Not acceptable to delete the spare wheel. That ain't progress.

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[funflair]

Interesting. The range has increased from the first e-Ducato offering a while ago. Correct me if I am wrong - that was a maximum 100 miles.

The questions are going to be (a) how much do the battery modules weigh and (b) how much user payload will be left after conversion into a MH. The starting point seems to be 900Kg payload for the bare van. Not a lot.

The Ducato wasn't designed as a BEV so the Control Panel thingy is a small tablet stuck onto the dashboard when it needs to be integrated into the dashboard itself. The longer range 79 kwh 5 battery module configuration looks like the space for a waste tank is gone as might also be the spare wheel.

When is a major converter going to produce a working prototype MH on this e-Ducato? Does anyone know?

The difference in payload between the Diesel and Electric seems to be around 300kg so that 100% of the payload with a lot of 3500kg vans,

 

[Jamesh]

At the moment, the brochures for working vans match the Fiat e-Ducato against the Ford E-Transit for 2022, with speculation that the Ford has the edge for cost. Both seem to need power at 75 to 80kWh for a 200 mile range so will there be enough space within the chassis, while leaving some payload and staying inside 3500kg?

I'd heard (not sure where) they were thinking of increasing the 3500kg limit to 4250kg for electric vans to account for the greater weight??

Cheers James

 

[SpeedyDux]

I'd heard (not sure where) they were thinking of increasing the 3500kg limit to 4250kg for electric vans to account for the greater weight??

Cheers James

I think that roughly corresponds with the MPTLM of the Maxi chassis version. The biggest challenge would not be technical, but amending all the relevant national legislation and international agreements to provide this higher limit for e-vans.

The other relevant question could be about range when the van is loaded to the limit. I assumed that the optimistic FIAT range figures would only be achievable with an unladen or lightly loaded e-Ducato during ideal external temperature conditions for HV batteries. We need to see some real world range numbers, from independent road tests. On goggle there seem to be only armchair reviews and waffle about the driving experience.

The UK price seems high - from £47,675 excluding VAT (after the Government PiVG). Presumably that's a short range basic van. Not going to sell many except to business users in ULEZ cities when diesel is totally banned, quite soon I expect. Strong competition from the e-Transit and e-Vito.

 

[ronecc1]

I am curious to find that nobody has mentioned the costs that “cannot be spoken about”
The government are keeping extremely quiet when it comes to taxation in all the forms that affect ICE vehicles.
This, currently massive, source of government income is quietly being savagely eroded and will need to be replaced. Inevitably the powers that be will leave things until too late and the new taxation needed to replace the existing losses will be higher than we pay today.

The tax lost from diesel engined m/h will be collected from electricity usage, so all costs will increase, household and vehicle electricity. Do not be mistaken by government promises, they will grab your money any way they can. There is talk of subsidies for fitting new boilers etc. The government will not pay subsidies as they have no money. It is we, the tax payer who will pay the subsidies from the taxes we pay. Hence the tax and prices will constantly rise as people are forced into turning green. They will have us either way. The current trendy uptake of electric vehicles far outstrips the investment in energy production, charging point infrastructure, standardisation and reliability. Have a look at Guy Martin, Fastest electric car on You Tube. He drives one from Lincolnshire to John O Goats, and the problems he has, with charging and costs.

 

[ronecc1]

Heat Source pumps can provide sufficient warmth if a building is sufficiently insulated, I was in an apartment doing some work recently I asked if I could open the door to cool a little and was told the door was open and the apartment stays pretty warm even in winter I suspect that would be a suitable candidate for a Heat Pump.

But only if the house has been designed to be air and draught proof. The great majority of British houses would never meet the criteria. My stone house cannot be modified, so I have no chance. John Humphries off tv, stated recently, his heat source pump has cost a fortune, because the house and water are only warm, so has to back it up by having a wood burner. So, yes, if a new build has been designed to be heated by air or ground source, that is okay and it will cost a fair penny to do that, but for the average home, no chance,

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