The Electric Future of Motorhomes and Camper Vans

[Ejaydee]

If it wasn't for the fact that our Ioniq 5 didn't always select its drive gear or its reverse gear, or refused to move, or close its central locking system properly, or open correctly in the first instance, or if the driving aides weren't wonky and intolerable, or if it didn't sometimes revert to emergency break mode in the highstreet, or throw up a wobbly with its parking sensors, or the electric boot failed, or the computer would constantly throw up warnings........

Ooops, that is a real problem, sounds like one of the old British Leyland Monday or Friday cars! You certainly had a bad car there, shame really as the Ioniq 5 seems on the face of it to be a nice car!

I had a few 'teething problems' when I bought my first Zoe, but they were nothing like as bad as your experience and they were sorted out in a couple of months. I kept that car for almost six and half years before buying the new model, and before you ask, yes I have had a couple of small niggles which have had to be sorted. However, I have had other new (company) ICE cars in the past some of which were not fault free from new either, including a BMW Model 3, and a Peugeot 405, so not just an EV issue!

 

[Ejaydee]

That's not snow!!! It's a light dusting and no excuse not to go to work.

This is snow:

........and you wouldn't be driving an average family saloon in that either, without the snow plough. The point I was making is that EV's work perfectly well in snow (and low temperatures), contrary to what several Funsters were claiming!

 

[Ejaydee]

No such thing.

Les, that is absolute rubbish.

EVs are like laptops, i.e. you buy a top spec model and then a month later it is out of date and under spec'd.

Just like used ICE cars then. If you look at a 4 or 5 year old ICE car and compare it with the latest model, there will be lots of changes, as there will be with any consumer item at the moment (phones, TVs etc).

 

[LesW]

Les, that is absolute rubbish.







Just like used ICE cars then. If you look at a 4 or 5 year old ICE car and compare it with the latest model, there will be lots of changes, as there will be with any consumer item at the moment (phones, TVs etc).

Your assumption that there are"EV family cars for the majority of the population" on what planet is that then?

 

[Tombola]

Your assumption that there are"EV family cars for the majority of the population" on what planet is that then?

I mean, you could go to Norway where over half the cars there are EV
or you could maybe try the UK havng the Tesla model 3 (just tesla not including any other evs) being the biggest selling car in the uk for september.
And that is just NEW sales, let alone the percentage of the old evs sold 2nd hand.

so erm earth as a start really.

If you are talking cars for a grand then no, but if you are talking good quality 2nd hand, which I as a family man would try and acheive then loads.

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[Tonks]

I mean, you could go to Norway where over half the cars there are EV
or you could maybe try the UK havng the Tesla model 3 (just tesla not including any other evs) being the biggest selling car in the uk for september.
And that is just NEW sales, let alone the percentage of the old evs sold 2nd hand.

so erm earth as a start really.

If you are talking cars for a grand then no, but if you are talking good quality 2nd hand, which I as a family man would try and acheive then loads.

The Tesla sells to fleet buyers, due to the low BIK and running costs for fleet use. A friend of mine will be getting a Tesla company car in about 5 weeks, despite never having either seen (for close inspection) or driven one. He has driven an electric car as his wife has an e-Up. A nippy little thing as I've been a passenger in it, but even he says he wouldn't want to travel for more than about 45 minutes in it!

I would be deeply cautious about buying a second hand EV, due to the limited life span of the batteries and the cost to replace them. IF I go 'E', it will likely be a hybrid, not a pure EV, due to where I live and the kind of driving I do. Currently, even if fuel prices rocketed and CAZs expanded (which they will clearly do) there's still no way it would be cheaper to change from my fully paid for, reliable, ICE vehicle.

As far as E-campers go, Hillside Leisure introduced theirs in 2014 but it's no longer in their offered/advertised range. The kind of camping I do would not be supported by the kind of use of an E-MoHo described in many previous posts.

 

[Jamesh]

No one does. I have been in touch with every single manufacturer (well over 60 Marques - not all have evs on the market yet) I have found (researching on behalf of my MP and Chloe Smith MP - Minister of State)* no manufacturer has any clear idea of what is required. The rail system for the batteries is where the ramp housing and mechanism would need to be sited. Because e-vehicles are the shape they are they aren't tall enough to accommodate a chair and occupant. Absolute minimum internal height of the vehicle would need to be 1.4 m - and the door a similar height and wide opening.

Side ramps are not practical as they would need to extend so far out.

Even motability replies that there are no eWAVs on the market and as far as they are aware no eWAV is even on the drawing board.

* We were due to do a fact finding mission to see which charging points were wheelchair friendly but had to cancel due to my family issues.

What about A VW caravelle.

The were the choice for ewav before they became too expensive.

The bolts for the Irwin rails go through the floor which might be a problem or you could just use the caravelle interior with those hook up points.

Tail lift in the boot etc.

Getting a wav from Hoyles of Denholme or rainbow car sales and getting a converter to transfer across wouldn't be too hard.

Hope that makes sense - not a expert just have an ex wav carravelle and niece with wheelchair.

Cheers James

Cheers James

 

[Tombola]

I would be deeply cautious about buying a second hand EV, due to the limited life span of the batteries and the cost to replace them

explain that one please. Go on Tonks

I know there will alwyas be anomolies, but a mdels s went rhough 400,000 miles.
average ev battery life = 100,000, and then degredation can range from 10% throught to 20%, it doesnt just die.
Similar to the horse power of a well used engine.
In the USA you cant even produce an ev without giving a minimum 100,000 mile warranty on the battery

 

[Spriddler]

I guess camp site operators would be fitting meters to all their EHU points.... or would they have to construct onsite dedicated EV charging bays?

(I'm not being neg Tombola but just thinking through the implications for electric caravanners and m/homers )

 

[Tombola]

I guess camp site operators would be fitting meters to all their EHU points................... or would they have to install onsite dedicated EV charging bays?

(I'm not being neg Tombola but just thinking through the implications for electric caravanners and m/homers )

yeah I was thinking about this my friend owns a couple of sites in North Wales, one quite big, and ive visited him a few times in my car and plugged in at his EHU points with my commando. I said if he promoted commando socket EV charging in the quiet time, for either campers who want to tow (hardly anyone atm obvs) or visitors, or even people passing, could be another income, as he is based right off the A55.
The answer was metering how ?? , not so much the capability of the cabling etc as the ev will only pull granny charge from 13amp.

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[Ejaydee]

Your assumption that there are"EV family cars for the majority of the population" on what planet is that then?

Planet Earth, no need to look any further.

 

[Blue Knight]

Sorry, I just couldn't help laughing at your tale of Ioniq woe. I feel guilty now.

I find it funny just reading it back

It wasn't a great start to EV'ing but we can take comfort that it was a quick and easy rejection process with our cash now safely back in the bank

This could have turned into a nightmare but thankfully it's all good now. No more EV shopping for me, lol.

 

[LesW]

Planet Earth, no need to look any further.

You and the other bloke are in a world of you own, thinking most of the population can afford £30,000 - £50,000 for a motor, just because you can...

 

[Blue Knight]

The answer was metering how ?? , not so much the capability of the cabling etc as the ev will only pull granny charge from 13amp.

We just used our mobile granny charger during the period of ownership. It had 4 settings but to select the third biggest (10A charge setting), it would need to be connected to a 13A socket while the biggest 12A option would need a 15 or 16A supply.

We always used the 10A setting which translated to the car charging at 2.3Kwh.

This further translated to a total of 9.9 miles being added to the tank for every hour charged via the granny charger, assuming that I could achieve an average consumption rate of 4.3miles per KWh.

The guy pulling the 1.3T Swift caravan achieved a consumption figure of 1.8 miles per Kwh so in all honesty he couldn't use the campsite power source to achieve any real distance. But instead he had to rely on the DC charging network to gain any real charging capability.

That said, I did miss the option of spending 10-minutes at a petrol station to get an 850-mile motorway range in our Autobahn muncher.

 

[Blue Knight]

Just like used ICE cars then. If you look at a 4 or 5 year old ICE car and compare it with the latest model, there will be lots of changes, as there will be with any consumer item at the moment (phones, TVs etc).

'Mileage dependent', I would certainly give a 5-year old ICE car a shot but I wouldn't buy a laptop of the same vintage.

I think it's great that some folk are moving to EVs as they'll discover the niggles that will help the manufacturers produce a perfect fault free car for me to buy in the future.

Well done to the pioneers - someone has to go first.

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[Spriddler]

I think it's great that some folk are moving to EVs as they'll discover the niggles that will help the manufacturers produce a perfect fault free car for me to buy in the future.

Let's hope they manage it quicker than m/home manufacturers .

 

[Tombola]

You and the other bloke are in a world of you own, thinking most of the population can afford £30,000 - £50,000 for a motor, just because you can...

and the other bloke
the one with facts not rants you mean. Id be grateful if you didnt judge me on what I drive or what I can afford, you dont know who or what I am, or have had. Touch of the green eyed monster is there ???

We have all had the scrapper, that doesnt start in a morning, its just that now Ive seen the light..... and its a bright Lithium star leading the way, Praise Elon

Look at a 2014 nissan leaf electric with about 60 on the clock you can pick up for about 5-6 k
A Petrol or diesel honda Jazz, similar sized car same age ...5 or 6 k
peugot, Vauxhall, honda, all around the same.
Electric cars new you say ? your just Tesla ist i reckon, and Im gonna write to my MP.

Gve me facts and not rants LesW and Ill listen to your bluster, other than that its just noise, similar to your mate there Simon Cowell, he judges people quite harshly for attention too.

Show me the dark side Les, go on.

 

[LesW]

and the other bloke
the one with facts not rants you mean. Id be grateful if you didnt judge me on what I drive or what I can afford, you dont know who or what I am, or have had. Touch of the green eyed monster is there ???

We have all had the scrapper, that doesnt start in a morning, its just that now Ive seen the light..... and its a bright Lithium star leading the way, Praise Elon

Look at a 2014 nissan leaf electric with about 60 on the clock you can pick up for about 5-6 k
A Petrol or diesel honda Jazz, similar sized car same age ...5 or 6 k
peugot, Vauxhall, honda, all around the same.
Electric cars new you say ? your just Tesla ist i reckon, and Im gonna write to my MP.

Gve me facts and not rants LesW and Ill listen to your bluster, other than that its just noise, similar to your mate there Simon Cowell, he judges people quite harshly for attention too.

Show me the dark side Les, go on.

No rants from me matey, I have absolutely no issues with battery cars.. we may get one in the not so distant future, it'll probably be on a leased deal, I wouldn't want to actually buy something that may be out of date very quickly... we can afford the monthly costs involved, though many people can't and possibly never will.

It shows your completely 'tone deaf' attitude, assuming most families can afford family EV cars, not the silly little out of date things you so kindly mentioned.

If the time ever comes when people on the lower end of the pay scale get priced off the road, I can see serious civil unrest.

Battery cars are seriously overpriced, and until that issue is resolved, they will be a niche vehicle for those with the income to splash out.

 

[Tombola]

Gve me facts and not rants @LesW and Ill listen to your bluster, other than that its just noise, similar to your mate there Simon Cowell, he judges people quite harshly for attention too.

you didnt notice this bit then.
never mind, ! I dont want to push the point, Ive made it with stats and facts
we are all welcome to our own opinion, no matter how bad we are at facts,

I can see serious civil unrest

 

[buttons]

Don't use sites and most car charging points you can't park a large Motorhome at so I'd be stuffed.
Electric cars don't make financial sense to me and I can't see a Motorhome doing it.

EV doesn't make any sense at all for low mileage hobbyist's. The carbon energy footprint alone to build new and scrap an old motorhome would never be recouped.

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[Lenny HB]

EV doesn't make any sense at all for low mileage hobbyist's. The carbon energy footprint alone to build new and scrap an old motorhome would never be recouped.

Yep, my car does 1500-2000 miles a year max.
My Motorhome does 8,000 - 10,000 miles a year, now if I could buy an EV one for the same price as a diesel & it had a similar range 450 miles and could be easily charged anywhere I'd buy one.

 

[buttons]

Yep, my car does 1500-2000 miles a year max.
My Motorhome does 8,000 - 10,000 miles a year, now if I could buy an EV one for the same price as a diesel & it had a similar range 450 miles and could be easily charged anywhere I'd buy one.

Yours could be a long wait Lenny.

 

[Coolcats]

I think we all know they’re coming it’s just a shame that those of us that enjoy driving and enjoy cars will loose all that. Sure they’re better for the planet but boring. We’ve been lucky to have enjoyed our interest. Unfortunately we’ll be the last generation to have that.
We could very possibly be the last generation where the average earner can afford a car.

Spot on, I am not anti EV having driven and i3 and an eGolf they are both nice vehicles however there is something they lack and that is soul, they have no soul.

HEAR THE FEARSOME BRM V16 GRAND PRIX ENGINE FIRE UP IN DYNO TESTING​

 

[Ejaydee]

there is something they lack and that is soul, they have no soul.

Genuine question, so what 'soul' does an oil burner car have that a EV does not? From the bottom line and link on your posting regarding hearing the "fearsome BRM V16 GP engine fire up", I have to assume perhaps the soul you mention are the vroom vroom noises. OK, each to their own.

 

[Peppadog]

Never mind soul. They Rock... off the line like a Bat out of Hell

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[DDJC]

I've got a 4x4 hybrid Mitsubishi PHEV and it is the nuts, but I neither want nor could afford a Tesla.
By babying the speed and acceleration, I get twenty five miles out of a tank of electric in summer, but in winter that drops to about fifteen.
The best car I have ever owned, without doubt.

It doesn't matter how good full EV vehicles are, they are out of many people's price range, and will be for many, many years yet. Citing Planet Earth issues to argue the case for EVs from a ecological PoV is meaningless, if no one can afford them. Solar panels, heat pump and a wind generator would be great, but I can't afford that either. The understanding and the will to act is common to most people, and so the eco-whiners and motorway blockers need to stop haranguing us and start haranguing the manufacturers to get the price down. Won't happen because they don't understand money, being mostly upper middle class toffs or rabid anarchists.

So how is this argument going to be work with electric motorhomes?

Basically it isn't.
Firstly, anyone who buys an electric motorhome is going to pay a bloody fortune. Its not only the cost (likely to be 50% higher than a new derv moho today) and secondly because the PX value of your moho is plummeting.
Secondly, the range will never be able to match what you can do with a derv moho today. In ten years time, EV motorhomes may reach 200 miles range. Today, my derv moho can make 400 miles easy, and then takes only two minutes to fill up. However, if your motorhoming is less than 15 miles, solely within the UK, you'll be fine.

I suppose you could of course tow a 2000kg trailer full of batteries, but not particularly practical. And where do you put the beer and illicit sausages?

However, hydrogen motorhomes...?
Now that is worth considering.

 

[cmcardle75]

Secondly, the range will never be able to match what you can do with a derv moho today. In ten years time, EV motorhomes may reach 200 miles range. Today, my derv moho can make 400 miles easy, and then takes only two minutes to fill up. However, if your motorhoming is less than 15 miles, solely within the UK, you'll be fine.

A motorhome has about half the fuel economy of a car. My Kona will do 300 miles on a 64kWh battey. A motorhome to get 300 miles range would need about 130kWh battery. That will cost about £20,000 in today's prices. The motor is cheaper than the engine/transmission it replaces, so you'd get some of that back. Battery prices will come down. £20,000 on top of a vehicle price of £60,000 is a lot, but not catastrophic. Besides, there would be savings in fuel and servicing. The high voltage battery could be tapped for habitation usage, reducing cost of heating/gas appliances/tanks etc. Ideally, the cab heat pump could be used for heating/cooling of the interior.

However, hydrogen motorhomes...?
Now that is worth considering.

Except that hydrogen costs an absolute fortune and is currently extremely environmentally unfriendly, effectively a particularly high carbon fossil fuel over the complete lifecycle (yes, no carbon emitted at the tailpipe, but that isn't the issue). To produce hydrogen (and use it efficiently) in an environmentally sound way is still ruinously expensive compared to battery technology. Maybe these issues will be overcome, but the technology is well behind. It would be most useful where energy density is more important than cost.

 

[DDJC]

A motorhome has about half the fuel economy of a car. My Kona will do 300 miles on a 64kWh battey. A motorhome to get 300 miles range would need about 130kWh battery. That will cost about £20,000 in today's prices. The motor is cheaper than the engine/transmission it replaces, so you'd get some of that back. Battery prices will come down. £20,000 on top of a vehicle price of £60,000 is a lot, but not catastrophic. Besides, there would be savings in fuel and servicing. The high voltage battery could be tapped for habitation usage, reducing cost of heating/gas appliances/tanks etc. Ideally, the cab heat pump could be used for heating/cooling of the interior.

300 mile moho?
Not in my price range, in my lifetime.
I do admire your optimism, but my although we have a pretty good lo-energy, eco lifestyle, and I am fully cognisant of the eco arguments, we won't be looking at an EV motorhome.

 

[Blaydon]

Hi all. I think we need to remember that new regs on removal of ICE vehicles is for new ones. There will be a long phasing out of petrol and diesel vehicles. There has to be. If all the vehicles on the road were all to be electric the national grid would stop. There just isn’t enough supply. Quite apart from heat pumps for houses and all the other things going electric
there will be a huge detrimental impact on the environment if all the cars and vans are replaced too quickly. The most destructive part of the life cycle of any vehicle is the manufacture. This is worse for electric vehicles.
what governments need to focus on is the international polluters in things such as shipping and flights which do far more damage that Mr or Mrs Blogs going on holiday in their campervan or MoHo.

 

[cmcardle75]

300 mile moho?
Not in my price range, in my lifetime.
I do admire your optimism, but my although we have a pretty good lo-energy, eco lifestyle, and I am fully cognisant of the eco arguments, we won't be looking at an EV motorhome.

We'll see them in the next few years. However, the economics will favour delivery vans first.

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