Tam &Toby do Europe ...Take two

[Just smiffy]

I don’t know a lot but my thinking is towards the starter motor not quite being right.....

 

[Just smiffy]

Or is that alternator .....

told you I don’t know a lot....

 

[Lenny HB]

You are running before you can walk Tam. The current will vary a bit as the battery starts to accept a charge.

1. Have you got solar disconnected?
2. Connect the lead direct between the batteries with the 50 amp fuse removed like you did yesterday. Measure the current through the lead.
3. Remove lead replace fuse so it is back to standard.
4. After the last test the battery will have come up a bit so put a bit of a load on it for ½ hour.
5.Now measure the current with engine running.

When you have done that I will give you a couple of other things to try.

As Garry says it is starting to look like it might be the alternator but as he doesn't know the difference between the alternator & a starter motor I wouldn't worry too much at the moment.

 

[Just smiffy]

You are running before you can walk Tam. The current will vary a bit as the battery starts to accept a charge.

1. Have you got solar disconnected?
2. Connect the lead direct between the batteries with the 50 amp fuse removed like you did yesterday. Measure the current through the lead.
3. Remove lead replace fuse so it is back to standard.
4. After the last test the battery will have come up a bit so put a bit of a load on it for ½ hour.
5.Now measure the current with engine running.

When you have done that I will give you a couple of other things to try.

As Garry says it is starting to look like it might be the alternator but as he doesn't know the difference between the alternator & a starter motor I wouldn't worry too much at the moment.

I do know the difference but as you Yourself know Lenny 12 midday is still too early For my brain....

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

I do know the difference but as you Yourself know Lenny 12 midday is still too early For my brain....

That's why there are so many hours in a day, you just choose one that suits.

I have an electrical circuit that won't reset, some lights, a roof fan and a radio in the back don't work. You Northernraider have put me off ever trying to fix it!

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[Lenny HB]

I do know the difference but as you Yourself know Lenny 12 midday is still too early For my brain....

What brain?

 

[Northernraider]

You are running before you can walk Tam. The current will vary a bit as the battery starts to accept a charge.

1. Have you got solar disconnected?
2. Connect the lead direct between the batteries with the 50 amp fuse removed like you did yesterday. Measure the current through the lead.
3. Remove lead replace fuse so it is back to standard.
4. After the last test the battery will have come up a bit so put a bit of a load on it for ½ hour.
5.Now measure the current with engine running.

When you have done that I will give you a couple of other things to try.

As Garry says it is starting to look like it might be the alternator but as he doesn't know the difference between the alternator & a starter motor I wouldn't worry too much at the moment.

Right we have a slight problem lol

While I was doing my jump lead test I discovered that really my connections at leisure batteries wasn't too great so I decided to remove all the battery terminals and redo all the connections...

Of course while doing that I have reset the bloody panel and dumped all my water etc ...so the dt201 is now requesting a full charge as it thinks my batteries are half charged.


But

I've had it running now about 10 minutes and on initial startup I had 15amps going in and its only dropped to 10amps and seems to be staying around that at the minute which is higher than ive been getting so far

In 10 minutes with engine running its raised it from 80ah to 82ah

So tightening the connections seems to have helped somewhat at least.

But to reset panel ill have to connect 240v till tomorrow I think

 

[Lenny HB]

Forget the panel for now.

 

[busby]

Right we have a slight problem lol

While I was doing my jump lead test I discovered that really my connections at leisure batteries wasn't too great so I decided to remove all the battery terminals and redo all the connections...

Of course while doing that I have reset the bloody panel and dumped all my water etc ...so the dt201 is now requesting a full charge as it thinks my batteries are half charged.


But

I've had it running now about 10 minutes and on initial startup I had 15amps going in and its only dropped to 10amps and seems to be staying around that at the minute which is higher than ive been getting so far

In 10 minutes with engine running its raised it from 80ah to 82ah

So tightening the connections seems to have helped somewhat at least.

But to reset panel ill have to connect 240v till tomorrow I think

Well above my pay grade,,if it doesnt work after hitting it with a hammer its a job for the garage,,BUSBY

 

[Northernraider]

Forget the panel for now.

Still putting out 10 / 11amps just now which is more than before


Right I'm not understanding the jump lead instruction

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[Northernraider]

Right if I pull the fuse and connect jump lead I'm only getting 6- 7amps on jump lead.

Put fuse back in and check on wire from starter battery to ebl im getting 11.8amps



Still getting around 10amps on panel

Now up at 85ah from 80ah

 

[Lenny HB]

I would expect the results to be the other way unless your cable is not heavy enough and you are getting a volt drop across the cable.
Measure the voltage at each end of the cable.

 

[Northernraider]

I would expect the results to be the other way unless your cable is not heavy enough and you are getting a volt drop across the cable.
Measure the voltage at each end of the cable.

I'm using a heavy duty jump lead but I have to join 2 together to reach the batteries.

Its also difficult to get a good connection as the positive terminal of my starter battery has a fuse box connected to it so not the easiest ...but definitely not more than 7.8amps with the cable connected between them.

Getting 9amps through system now so it is dropping gradually. Still low though

It does go up a bit when engine at 2000rpm
But conscious of the noise here at minute ...might be driving neighbours mad

 

[Bart]

Right we have a slight problem lol

While I was doing my jump lead test I discovered that really my connections at leisure batteries wasn't too great so I decided to remove all the battery terminals and redo all the connections...

Of course while doing that I have reset the bloody panel and dumped all my water etc ...so the dt201 is now requesting a full charge as it thinks my batteries are half charged.


But

I've had it running now about 10 minutes and on initial startup I had 15amps going in and its only dropped to 10amps and seems to be staying around that at the minute which is higher than ive been getting so far

In 10 minutes with engine running its raised it from 80ah to 82ah

So tightening the connections seems to have helped somewhat at least.

But to reset panel ill have to connect 240v till tomorrow I think

Have you ever tried just 1 leasure battery, in case there was a problem with some of the other batteries in your bank. As in that one maybe not wanting to take a charge , if that is even possible for a battery to go faulty and stop requesting current for a charge.
If so I would disconnect the battery bank from the MH Circuit , then the leisure batteries from each other and let the batteries settle unconnected for 30 mins , then measure the voltage , they should all be approx the same.
Then connect say battery (1) back up to the MH and then use your inverter for a set period of time to draw say 10 amps from battery (1) , disconnect battery (1) , connect battery (2) and repeat above power draw test using your inverter.
So if you have 3 batteries do the above test 3 times.
Next leave the batteries disconnected and after they have rested for 30 mins - 1hr measure voltages on each separated battery , they should all be approx the same.
The reason I would suggest the above test is to make sure they are all working ok independently.
As remember the amps that are drawn from the alternator to the battery is totally down to the batteries condition / state of charge.
Now if it is totally impossible for a battery to get damaged and to stop it from requesting the proper charge after they had received 17v as your batteries once did , then just ignore my post as I'm probably just babbling on

 

[Northernraider]

Turn fridge off I get 11amp idle and 12.5amp at 2000rpm

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[busby]

Getting exciting now,,BUSBY,,,Sorry Tam it must be doing your head in,,

 

[Northernraider]

Getting exciting now,,BUSBY,,,Sorry Tam it must be doing your head in,,

Yeah you could say that lol

 

[intokenny]

Tam, i know nothing, but like busby i'm getting a little bit excited, i think your definetly getting somewhere. Maybe even today you might be done & sorted. I have a feeling in my water by tomorrow you will know the whole problem. Good luck, i think were all waiting & hoping.

 

[Northernraider]

ok so after approx 45 minutes with engine running it did stay around 10 amps input which is definitely more than before

Whether or not that was because of bad connection at leisure batteries or if it was due to me having disconnected them and therfore causing the panel to reset i dont know .

But really I now need to get the panel to recognise the 100% charge again so I need to connect to 240v overnight and then start again lol.

Interestingly enough though that now on hookup its only drawing 12.2amps in which is only 1 or 2 amps more than the engine charge was

So we will have to wait and see once its all reset if its made any difference.

At least all my battery terminals are now done correctly and are tight ...and batteries are better secured than they were previously

 

[Northernraider]

Next project ....

Turn this in to fridge fans

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[Northernraider]

I'm now getting the same 10.5amp input from 240 hook up as I was getting from the engine ....hmmm

 

[Just smiffy]

I'm now getting the same 10.5amp input from 240 hook up as I was getting from the engine ....hmmm

Didn’t someone mention bad earths....?

 

[gus-lopez]

Didn’t someone mention bad earths....?

Yes it might be worth looking at the ends to chassis terminals?

 

[Podney]

The suspense is killing me! After gawd knows how long,and a number of very useful suggestions as well as some daft ones,the solution must be imminent..........surely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OR....is this the technical query that even the best brains on MHF can’t answer????????...... Maybe?

I do wish you’d get on with it and we can get back to gassing,wilding/parking,payloads,toilet threads and water ingress....again!

 

[tonyidle]

The suspense is killing me! After gawd knows how long,and a number of very useful suggestions as well as some daft ones,the solution must be imminent..........surely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OR....is this the technical query that even the best brains on MHF can’t answer????????...... Maybe?

I do wish you’d get on with it and we can get back to gassing,wilding/parking,payloads,toilet threads and water ingress....again!

The problem with diagnosis from a distance is that it is very difficult to explain exactly what tests are needed to someone with, on his own admission, very little basic electrical knowledge. The steps are:

Check all terminals for corrosion.
Make sure that the fridge is off.
Use only one measuring instrument and, in particular, ignore the EBL control panel.
Disconnect or disable any source of charge other than the alternator
Check alternator voltage under the heaviest load you can present to it.
Check the voltage at the leisure battery when it is under 80% and loaded with as much as you can give it.

If the two voltages are within 3% of each other voltage drop isn't a problem
If they are not check the voltages into and out of the EBL.
At this point you will know where any volt drop is occurring and can look for problems.

Measuring current has not been of any importance up to this point and so far we have proven there is:

No fault in the EBL
No fault in the wiring
No poor connections

Now is the time to do a current test. If, with 80% or less in the leisure battery and as much load as you can offer, you do not see a substantial current flow then you can consider the alternator. But, and IMO it's a big but, I cannot think of or imagine any way a generator can develop a fault that limits its output current whilst maintaining the correct voltage at its output. Note it is irrelevant at which point you measure the current so I'd suggest the best place is on the leisure battery negative (earth) connection.

Now those, to me, are a set of simple tests that should take perhaps an hour to perform including head-scratching and a tea break. But to someone who has no theoretical knowledge of electrickery even describing how to physically perform those tests is an exercise in gobbledegook. No disrespect to Tam is intended - not only does he struggle with limited knowledge of the subject but he has work to attend and other calls on his time. And if he carries on as patiently as he has been we'll get there in the end.

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[Northernraider]

The problem with diagnosis from a distance is that it is very difficult to explain exactly what tests are needed to someone with, on his own admission, very little basic electrical knowledge. The steps are:

Check all terminals for corrosion.
Make sure that the fridge is off.
Use only one measuring instrument and, in particular, ignore the EBL control panel.
Disconnect or disable any source of charge other than the alternator
Check alternator voltage under the heaviest load you can present to it.
Check the voltage at the leisure battery when it is under 80% and loaded with as much as you can give it.

If the two voltages are within 3% of each other voltage drop isn't a problem
If they are not check the voltages into and out of the EBL.
At this point you will know where any volt drop is occurring and can look for problems.

Measuring current has not been of any importance up to this point and so far we have proven there is:

No fault in the EBL
No fault in the wiring
No poor connections

Now is the time to do a current test. If, with 80% or less in the leisure battery and as much load as you can offer, you do not see a substantial current flow then you can consider the alternator. But, and IMO it's a big but, I cannot think of or imagine any way a generator can develop a fault that limits its output current whilst maintaining the correct voltage at its output. Note it is irrelevant at which point you measure the current so I'd suggest the best place is on the leisure battery negative (earth) connection.

Now those, to me, are a set of simple tests that should take perhaps an hour to perform including head-scratching and a tea break. But to someone who has no theoretical knowledge of electrickery even describing how to physically perform those tests is an exercise in gobbledegook. No disrespect to Tam is intended - not only does he struggle with limited knowledge of the subject but he has work to attend and other calls on his time. And if he carries on as patiently as he has been we'll get there in the end.

OK well having just been to let dogs out for a pee the batteries are now back at 100% and panel should reset itself overnight.

Solar is disconnected...fridge is on gas.

Lenny HB had suggested disconnecting one of the leisure batteries tomorrow to make it easier to run it down below 80% so I'll do that in the morning then run it down a bit and see where we are at.

 

[mitzimad]

Nothing to do with the charging problem but I realised how and why the fridge is wired like it is.

Tam's fridge has a relay on the back that switches the 12v but it is still wired via the relay in the EBL the reason for this is so the fridge can be run of the habitation batteries if required.

mine is an e box and it seems the 12v supply just goes in and back out theres two connectors both 3 wires plus minus and d plus think is just a convienient way for the ebox and loom supplied to connect. convertor just connects from battery and d plus input which is also used for the split charge most of my wiring apear to have been made for a nine metre van and coiled up under cupboa

 

[Northernraider]

Decided against disconnecting one battery as it would throw the panel off again and I'd have to reconnect to EHU

So it was at 100% 160ah this morning ...ive disconnected from ehu etc

All lights and TV on to run batteries low ....ill leave them on till i finish work at midnight which should take them below 80%

Day off tomorrow so will have more time to run the tests ....although it is forecast for rain here which is a pain

 

[Northernraider]

tonyidle

Lenny HB

The batteries should be way below 80% by morning so if you tell me the night what you want me to do tommorowvthen ill try and do it before rain starts.

I've borrowed Razamataz jump leads also so I can run one from live and neg to leisure batteries if need be

I have to join 2 together as they don't reach otherwise

 

[Lenny HB]

Two jump leads clipped to get her is not a good idea, when we spoke yesterday you said you were going to get a new cable.
What you could do but you won't like it as its a pain with where your EBL is. But you could take the starter & leisure battery cables out of the EBL and join then with a terminal block a bit of 30 amp choc block will do for the test. Then see what the current is with the EBL by-passed.
Then check the current with the EBL connected best to do this test first.
Between test put a load on the batteries for at least ½ hour otherwise you will get confusing results.

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