Tam &Toby do Europe ...Take two

Northernraider said:
Someone wake up tonyidle I'm awaiting my next instructions.
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It's really hard waiting Tam. That's how i felt this morning & it's not even my van!!:giggle::giggle: I'm out for a few hours now, but guess what the 1st thing i'm doing when i get back?!!?!? Hopefully you will have the answer's by then & all will be working right.🤞🤞🤞🤞
 
I have only afew thoughts on what's happening: the charge current looks reasonable; the panel voltmeter is inaccurate; have you calibrated the panel to suit your battery?

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tonyidle said:
I have only afew thoughts on what's happening: the charge current looks reasonable; the panel voltmeter is inaccurate; have you calibrated the panel to suit your battery?
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Yep I did that when I fitted it the other week...2 x 100ah so 200 total
Then fully charged via EHU for 24 hours

It then sets useable ah at 80% which is the 160ah it shows when fully charged 100%
 
Northernraider said:
Yep I did that when I fitted it the other week...2 x 100ah so 200 total
Then fully charged via EHU for 24 hours

It then sets useable ah at 80% which is the 160ah it shows when fully charged 100%
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Have you any suspicions other than low charge? Are the batteries lasting well? I suppose until you do a decent trip you won't know whether your achieving 100% charge after a journey.

TBH if everything is working correctly your intended use would benefit from a B2B charger. They fool the alternator into providing a high charge that can bring the hab battery up very quickly on a drive.
 
tonyidle said:
Have you any suspicions other than low charge? Are the batteries lasting well? I suppose until you do a decent trip you won't know whether your achieving 100% charge after a journey.

TBH if everything is working correctly your intended use would benefit from a B2B charger. They fool the alternator into providing a high charge that can bring the hab battery up very quickly on a drive.
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Aye but going by other folks hymers with the same set up I shouldn't need to.

Shaudt ebl is supposed to be the best out there and both a&n caravans and apuljack say no need for b2b with them.

There was me thinking you were going to bring something new to the party lol

Lenny HB and I have been through all this stuff before which is why we arrived at faulty relay or shunt.
 
I dont have an electrobloc EBL, But:
Is it possible to do a visual check/or easily replace the split charge relay on an Electrobloc EBL?
I mean is it soldered onto a pcb board, or can it simply be pulled out and replaced?
I was thinking that maybe the contacts are a bit burnt maybe, and not giving a good contact at higher amperage's.
Just a thought.
LES
 
2020, what a year. And so many questions... Will we get a vaccine for covid-19? Will Trump still be president at christmas? Will the motorhome fun community ever find out what is wrong with Northernraider 's electrics? :unsure:

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And dont even mention the wee Dugs vaccines, and when to get them their jabs, even more bloody stress.;)
LES
 
TinaL said:
I dont have an electrobloc EBL, But:
Is it possible to do a visual check/or easily replace the split charge relay on an Electrobloc EBL?
I mean is it soldered onto a pcb board, or can it simply be pulled out and replaced?
I was thinking that maybe the contacts are a bit burnt maybe, and not giving a good contact at higher amperage's.
Just a thought.
LES
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I think its soldered to pcb. ....the ebl is in a stupid place and not easy to remove.
 
monzer said:
2020, what a year. And so many questions... Will we get a vaccine for covid-19? Will Trump still be president at christmas? Will the motorhome fun community ever find out what is wrong with Northernraider 's electrics? :unsure:
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You shouldn't laugh yours could be next
 
TinaL said:
I dont have an electrobloc EBL, But:
Is it possible to do a visual check/or easily replace the split charge relay on an Electrobloc EBL?
I mean is it soldered onto a pcb board, or can it simply be pulled out and replaced?
I was thinking that maybe the contacts are a bit burnt maybe, and not giving a good contact at higher amperage's.
Just a thought.
LES
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It's simply a relay. If what is going into the EBL when the engine is running is coming out to the hab battery that's the best it can do. The last test that Tam did proved that was the case. The EBL doesn't boost or alter the charge available from the alternator in any way - it just passes it through when the engine is running. Northernraider
Tam I know this is frustrating and I'm sure Lenny HB would agree when I say it's hard to perform any diagnosis remotely. My logic is this: if the alternator is correctly charging the engine battery but not the hab battery then there is either a fault in the connection between the two or the alternator is failing. The test you just did proved that what is going into the EBL is coming out so that eliminates the EBL. The voltages on each battery were the same. I'm still trying to think of another test. One thing that does concern me is that within a few minutes of starting the engine the voltage on the engine battery should be more than 14v with the engine held above 2000rpm. If that isn't happening either the alternator or its connection to the battery (which is direct and very short) or the engine earth strap is faulty. Your next tests should concentrate on the alternator on its own. Connect the EHU so the leisure battery isn't taking anything from the alternator. Clip your meter to the start battery & hold the engine around 1500 - 2500rpm. The voltage should be over 14.2v. If it is switch the headlights on on main beam. The battery voltage should stay over 14v. Let me know what happens. I don't need photos of your meter as proof - just the readings. :smiley:

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Northernraider

1596148325897.png



1596148975339.png


This is part of the EBL. That box on the right with 6 connections is the thing on the bottom of the EBL where both batteries and earth connect. You will notice that the starter battery connects to a relay contact which when closed connects it to the living area battery. The relay is operated when the engine starts. That's it - that's all there is in the EBL. A switch (the relay) that connects the two batteries together. The shunt is in circuit but if you could see it you would understand why I do not pay it much attention. It is possible for relay contacts to be dirty or for a shunt to have a poor connection but (you'll have to trust me on this) if that were the case the fault area would be very hot. Hot enough to damage anything near it and cause a very noticeable smell if not smoke.
 
tonyidle said:
It's simply a relay. If what is going into the EBL when the engine is running is coming out to the hab battery that's the best it can do. The last test that Tam dfid proved that was the case. The EBL doesn't boost or alter the charge available from the alternator in any way - it just passes it through when the engine is running. Northernraider
Tam I know this is frustrating and I'm sure Lenny HB would agree when I say it's hard to perform any diagnosis remotely. My logic is this: if the alternator is correctly charging the engine battery but not the hab battery then there is either a fault in the connection between the two or the alternator is failing. The test you just did proved that what is going into the EBL is coming out so that eliminates the EBL. The voltages on each battery were the same. I'm still trying to think of another test. One thing that does concern me is that within a few minutes of starting the engine the voltage on the engine battery should be more than 14v with the engine held above 2000rpm. If that isn't happening either the alternator or its connection to the battery (which is direct and very short) or the engine earth strap is faulty. Your next tests should concentrate on the alternator on its own. Connect the EHU so the leisure battery isn't taking anything from the alternator. Clip your meter to the start battery & hold the engine around 1500 - 2500rpm. The voltage should be over 14.2v. If it is switch the headlights on on main beam. The battery voltage should stay over 14v. Let me know what happens. I don't need photos of your meter as proof - just the readings. :smiley:
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OK ill do that tomorrow
 
tonyidle said:
It's simply a relay. If what is going into the EBL when the engine is running is coming out to the hab battery that's the best it can do. The last test that Tam did proved that was the case. The EBL doesn't boost or alter the charge available from the alternator in any way - it just passes it through when the engine is running. Northernraider
Tam I know this is frustrating and I'm sure Lenny HB would agree when I say it's hard to perform any diagnosis remotely. My logic is this: if the alternator is correctly charging the engine battery but not the hab battery then there is either a fault in the connection between the two or the alternator is failing. The test you just did proved that what is going into the EBL is coming out so that eliminates the EBL. The voltages on each battery were the same. I'm still trying to think of another test. One thing that does concern me is that within a few minutes of starting the engine the voltage on the engine battery should be more than 14v with the engine held above 2000rpm. If that isn't happening either the alternator or its connection to the battery (which is direct and very short) or the engine earth strap is faulty. Your next tests should concentrate on the alternator on its own. Connect the EHU so the leisure battery isn't taking anything from the alternator. Clip your meter to the start battery & hold the engine around 1500 - 2500rpm. The voltage should be over 14.2v. If it is switch the headlights on on main beam. The battery voltage should stay over 14v. Let me know what happens. I don't need photos of your meter as proof - just the readings. :smiley:
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I'm just thinking though if I connect EHU it also charges my starting battery so won't that affect the readings
 
Hi Tam. Excuse this if it’s a mad suggestion but I don’t suppose the previous owner was fiddling with it and reversed the two leads from the connector to the batteries? I.e. what you think is the positive to the starter is actually going to the hab batt and vice versa.
 
Northernraider said:
So when I got in tonight my batteries are at 82% 132ah and 12.4v

Starter battery is at 13.1 v

Will see what its reading in the morning before I start van up.
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Good morning all,
So Tam,
I have depleted my Hab Battery to
104ah =82% =12.2 volts
starter showing 14.4 v0lts
As soon as i have started engine +34 ah and slowly dropping and 13volts
After 5 mins
17.4 ah
After 10 mins
15.6 ah =85% =13.5 volts Starter 14.1 volts
Switched everything off ........Put Solar fuse in and Showing+2.8 ah
hope this helps.
 
Razamataz said:
Good morning all,
So Tam,
I have depleted my Hab Battery to
104ah =82% =12.2 volts
starter showing 14.4 v0lts
As soon as i have started engine +34 ah and slowly dropping and 13volts
After 5 mins
17.4 ah
After 10 mins
15.6 ah =85% =13.5 volts Starter 14.1 volts
Switched everything off ........Put Solar fuse in and Showing+2.8 ah
hope this helps.
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So about twice as much as mine
 
tonyidle said:
Northernraider

View attachment 411652


View attachment 411657

This is part of the EBL. That box on the right with 6 connections is the thing on the bottom of the EBL where both batteries and earth connect. You will notice that the starter battery connects to a relay contact which when closed connects it to the living area battery. The relay is operated when the engine starts. That's it - that's all there is in the EBL. A switch (the relay) that connects the two batteries together. The shunt is in circuit but if you could see it you would understand why I do not pay it much attention. It is possible for relay contacts to be dirty or for a shunt to have a poor connection but (you'll have to trust me on this) if that were the case the fault area would be very hot. Hot enough to damage anything near it and cause a very noticeable smell if not smoke.
Click to expand...
I only mentioned the shunt previously as it is the only other item in the circuit . I f the shunt had a poor connection or gone high resistance it would affect everything else connected to the EBL but since fitting the new panel everything else is working.

Assuming the alternator is OK it can only be a connection in the EBL or the relay, If the relay is PCB mounted it could just be a soldered joint causing the problem (I'm not sure when they changed to PCB mounted relays).
Although we have changed the 50 amp fuse next to the starter battery I don't think we have eliminated all the cable connections, knowing it does on occasions charge at a decent rate it could be as simple as a poor connection. Kicking myself for not mentioning it before.

I think Tam Northernraider you should try making a connection directly from the starter battery to the EBL and then see what happens.
 
Just an observation , but ASR(VSR) split charge type set ups always seem to get comments of disapproval , and
advise to fit B2B chargers . Yet it would appear that is all thats in a ebl . bit surprised as level of German tech !

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tacr2man said:
Just an observation , but ASR(VSR) split charge type set ups always seem to get comments of disapproval , and
advise to fit B2B chargers . Yet it would appear that is all thats in a ebl . bit surprised as level of German tech !
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The difference with German vans they use the correct size cables and relay ratings, it's as simple as that.

Where as Brit built vans use ridiculously undersized cables not just on the split charge but throughout the van. Quite frightening when you look at the volt drops you get over Brit wiring. Friends who have bought Brit vans I always advise them to re-wire or double up all the cables.
 
O.MG I am so glad i am a simple very non-tech savvy woman!
If I had this problem - i either wouldnt realise I had a problem or would take it to an auto electrician to fix it. simples 🤔
Is saving a bit of cash worth this amount of stress,time and grief Tam?
 
Lenny HB said:
The difference with German vans they use the correct size cables and relay ratings, it's as simple as that.

Where as Brit built vans use ridiculously undersized cables not just on the split charge but throughout the van. Quite frightening when you look at the volt drops you get over Brit wiring. Friends who have bought Brit vans I always advise them to re-wire or double up all the cables.
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Another Q to ask the dealer salesman

'Can you please give me the wiring specifications for the whole MH?' and while you are about it a 'wiring diagram'

Good Luck!

Geoff
 
Val 2 dogs said:
O.MG I am so glad i am a simple very non-tech savvy woman!
If I had this problem - i either wouldnt realise I had a problem or would take it to an auto electrician to fix it. simples 🤔
Is saving a bit of cash worth this amount of stress,time and grief Tam?
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Its in his DNA ::bigsmile:
 
Val 2 dogs said:
O.MG I am so glad i am a simple very non-tech savvy woman!
If I had this problem - i either wouldnt realise I had a problem or would take it to an auto electrician to fix it. simples 🤔
Is saving a bit of cash worth this amount of stress,time and grief Tam?
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Its not about the cash its about the distrust in tradesmen and the modern approach to just replace parts in the hope it fixes it.

I can see the reasoning in the latter as I've done this myself of late and spent 300 on a panel that's made no difference ....this saga is simply to save me spending another 300 on an ebl that may or may not be the problem

Finding a committed auto spark willing to spend the time to locate the problem is rare as they are in demand.

So I prefer to do as much as i can myself first

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