Tam & co the great winter escape

[gus-lopez]

And i really hope its driving ok as otherwise i think ill be jumping off the bridge

No it will be ok.

I cannot get my head around the "pull" clutch? Who invented it & why? What purpose does it serve or make better?
Every time I drive my mates alfa i have visions of the clutch parting company with the pressure plate.

 

[Northernraider]

No it will be ok.

I cannot get my head around the "pull" clutch? Who invented it & why? What purpose does it serve or make better?
Every time I drive my mates alfa i have visions of the clutch parting company with the pressure plate.

No Idea who invented it or what difference it makes .id actually never heard of it before the other day. Never seen it mentioned on here either which was surprising but yeah these vans have pull clutches.

I will find out shortly as im finishing work at 8.30 and going up to bring the camper back to mums. Ill collect the car tomorrow. So i will see how it drives home.

 

[Northernraider]

Well ive brought the van home but its not right. It wont go over 40 in 4th gear and struggle to get 60mph in 5th . And reverse is unbearable it just judders like hell. Not to mention it still bites near the top and there is still a rattle.

Basically its worse than it was when it went in .

And im just really pissed off.

I will have to phone them on monday and see what they want to do. Ive lost the will to live.

 

[Jamesh]

That's just crap..

Hold in there, they seem like a decent garage and will want to get it right.

Anyone experienced in fiat clutches??

 

[Langtoftlad]

If they did a test drive... they must have seen these symptoms.

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[Northernraider]

If they did a test drive... they must have seen these symptoms.

Yeah thats what i would have thought.

I did say earlier i thought it was strange that when i phoned at 2pm i was told he was just refitting the gearbox. Then they phoned at 3pm and said it was done..it seemed very quick to have refitted drive shafts , wheels etc and test driven in less than an hour.


As nice as the guy seems its becoming apparent that he is struggling here. And its becoming frustrating. Thats 3 full days its been up there so far and its worse than it was.

Its completely buggered up my week , cost me a bit in diesel going back and forth all week , and im gonna struggle to pick up this scooter too ...

Its a disaster and im not sure what the next step is now. Ill have to phone them on monday and see what they say

 

[eurajohn]

Having done a few 2.8 clutch replacements in my younger, fitter days as I mentioned previously it is far from an easy task, it's a heavy box with very limited room for manoeuvre and with the style of clutch (pull not push release) the chance of damaging the pressure plate when refitting the box is high if trying to manually lift into place.
I can't understand what effect of changing the clutch could have on the speed obtainable through the gears, unless of course the clutch is slipping, as to the judder in reverse, did you see the face of the flywheel when it was off of the engine? if it had been seriously overheated by the previously slipping clutch the surface could be distorted and micro cracked.
As to why pull clutch technology is used, the system creates more clamping pressure for a given size than a conventional setup.

 

[Northernraider]

Having done a few 2.8 clutch replacements in my younger, fitter days as I mentioned previously it is far from an easy task, it's a heavy box with very limited room for manoeuvre and with the style of clutch (pull not push release) the chance of damaging the pressure plate when refitting the box is high if trying to manually lift into place.
I can't understand what effect of changing the clutch could have on the speed obtainable through the gears, unless of course the clutch is slipping, as to the judder in reverse, did you see the face of the flywheel when it was off of the engine? if it had been seriously overheated by the previously slipping clutch the surface could be distorted and micro cracked.
As to why pull clutch technology is used, the system creates more clamping pressure for a given size than a conventional setup.

Thats the thing. The previous clutch wasn't slipping. I was having it chsnged because the thrust bearing was very noisy and because the clutch bit very near the top.

It never had a reverse judder and it accelarated through the gears quicker than it is now.

 

[gus-lopez]

It wont go over 40 in 4th gear and struggle to get 60mph in 5th .

Can't see what that would have to do with a clutch change? Odd.

And reverse is unbearable it just judders like hell

That's the clutch/flywheel/dmf

to mention it still bites near the top and there is still a rattle.

That was the thing with mates alfa. Even with a new clutch the biting point was/is still near the top. Does it have a dual mass flywheel? The alfas do with the pull clutch . If so it could be that rattling.

 

[chaser]

Thats the thing. The previous clutch wasn't slipping. I was having it chsnged because the thrust bearing was very noisy and because the clutch bit very near the top.

It never had a reverse judder and it accelarated through the gears quicker than it is now.

I know you say this is a reputable garage and they have tried their best but do they actually know anything about this clutch , if it's rare and seeing as how they couldn't see the difference with the first one, do they know what they are doing?

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[Northernraider]

Can't see what that would have to do with a clutch change? Odd.

That's the clutch/flywheel/dmf

That was the thing with mates alfa. Even with a new clutch the biting point was/is still near the top. Does it have a dual mass flywheel? The alfas do with the pull clutch . If so it could be that rattling.

I don't know if it has a dual mass flywheel or not .. the only way i can see it losing power is if it is slipping ..

I have to collect this scooter tomorrow or im going to lose it so im just going to fit the rack on the van today and drive there tomorrow and see how it is on a longer journey ...i don't know what else to do at the minute.

Fed up with the whole thing

 

[Northernraider]

I know you say this is a reputable garage and they have tried their best but do they actually know anything about this clutch , if it's rare and seeing as how they couldn't see the difference with the first one, do they know what they are doing?

Ive no idea charlie.

Im not sure its rare i think every fiat Ducato 2.8jtd will have the same clutch

But he hasn't done one before, but he has done hundreds of clutches ( his words not mine )

I dont know how to do one on this either otherwise id have done it myself. Same with the cambelt.

 

[Northernraider]

It just annoys me that i just want a van that does the job and i can use without worry. Im fed up with it

It only has 29000 miles you'd think it would be hassle free, i opted to have a full new quality clutch fitted and the cambelt etc done so i could have peace of mind and reliability. Its a lot of money but i figured worth it if it saves any break downs , i also planned a full service etc

And this is what happens i genuinely think im bloody cursed or something.. every van i get i get issues.


At least with a cheap 3 grand van you can say well it was cheap and cheerful.

 

[monzer]

You'll get there. It's just a pain as you're a fulltimer and live in the van so the more time it spends in the garage the more you are put out.

You'll have a great van to enjoy, you just need to get through this clutch issue first.

 

[Dutch 68]

Just spoke with the garage owner. He says the sachs one looked a lot better and the mechanic is fitting the gearbox as we speak. So fingers crossed.

He's obviously still got to put it together and road-test but here's hoping.

I start work at 4.30 till 10 but im going to see if i can finish earlier as i will have to leave dogs with mum and then pick them up after work and drive back to the garage

The mechanic will be an expert by the time he finished yours, so all other funsters can line up in an orderly queue

It just annoys me that i just want a van that does the job and i can use without worry. Im fed up with it

It only has 29000 miles you'd think it would be hassle free, i opted to have a full new quality clutch fitted and the cambelt etc done so i could have peace of mind and reliability. Its a lot of money but i figured worth it if it saves any break downs , i also planned a full service etc

And this is what happens i genuinely think im bloody cursed or something.. every van i get i get issues.


At least with a cheap 3 grand van you can say well it was cheap and cheerful.

what it is Tam is lack of skill and maybe a lack of having the right product to fit, the symptoms you described when you drove the van home would be enough to set off every single alarm bell, he should have experienced the same symptoms on his test drive and hence never given it back to you the customer, it doesn’t help that he has never done this particular clutch, they will have no choice but to get a specialist involved, it went there with a good working clutch and now it doesn’t work properly, the biggest issue is that another mechanic does not want to take over, no one likes to solve an issue which someone else has not been able to solve, as he doesn’t know how the sequence of things where done and if any small part spacer or otherwise by miracle has gone missing.
The issue really is the full timing, otherwise you would just dump it there and say, ring me when it’s perfect.
What you may have to do is camp out there for a while next to the RV, if they have any decency then they will get it sorted, it’s their risk, they quoted , they accepted the job, so they should complete it, don’t do anything which allows them to step away, they might look for excuses to divert blame
I really hope that it get sorted soon, just keep in mind that everything can always be repaired, it just needs the right parts and the right skill set.
Anyone on the forum with the same model year fiat?
Maybe a new thread to specifically ask for peoples experiences of changing the clutch on this model, good and bad, solutions?

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[Phill D]

I think you are right to use the van on a proper run to really get a fuller picture of any problem.
Have a Safe journey to collect the bike and hopefully you will have a few nights proper sleep and be able to get whatever the problem is sorted next week.
As has been said above, all thus type of problem is magnified because you live in the van. That puts you under more pressure.
Take care it will get sorted.

 

[Figaro]

You'd think a clutch replacement on the 2.8 jtd for a competent mechanic would be straightforward, it's a common as muck basic diesel lump that's been around in various forms for decades.
Hope you get the problem resolved.

 

[Dutch 68]

You'd think a clutch replacement on the 2.8 jtd for a competent mechanic would be straightforward, it's a common as muck basic diesel lump that's been around in various forms for decades.
Hope you get the problem resolved.

You would think so but obviously not, and there isn’t any doubt in this case, it’s now doing things which where not present direct before it was opened up for a new clutch, biggest bug bear to me is that they have declared it ok and have handed it back to the customer…..

 

[CazPaul]

You'd think a clutch replacement on the 2.8 jtd for a competent mechanic would be straightforward, it's a common as muck basic diesel lump that's been around in various forms for decades.
Hope you get the problem resolved.

Yes that’s what I imagined too.

 

[CazPaul]

You would think so but obviously not, and there isn’t any doubt in this case, it’s now doing things which where not present direct before it was opened up for a new clutch, biggest bug bear to me is that they have declared it ok and have handed it back to the customer…..

Yes now that’s poor it sounds they’ve had enough of working on it and thought stuff it.

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[Onemanandhisdog]

I have never changed a clutch, but, it seems fairly straight forward if you can get the gearbox off and have the correct parts. I seem to remember "alignment tools" being mentioned with regards to clutch changes. Could the possible slipping and vibration in reverse just be bad alignment? Doesn't explain the high bite point.

 

[Diabalo]

The speed thing is weird but the mechanic wouldn't know that if he hadn't driven the van on the old clutch he would assume a big lump of moho performed that way

I have never changed a clutch, but, it seems fairly straight forward if you can get the gearbox off and have the correct parts. I seem to remember "alignment tools" being mentioned with regards to clutch changes. Could the possible slipping and vibration in reverse just be bad alignment? Doesn't explain the high bite point.

It will be aligned now as the gearbox is fitted

 

[chaser]

I have never changed a clutch, but, it seems fairly straight forward if you can get the gearbox off and have the correct parts. I seem to remember "alignment tools" being mentioned with regards to clutch changes. Could the possible slipping and vibration in reverse just be bad alignment? Doesn't explain the high bite point.

The reverse judder was a very common complaint with these but I think that has long ago been sorted.

 

[CazPaul]

The reverse judder was a very common complaint with these but I think that has long ago been sorted.

I thought the reverse judder was on the later 2.3 and 3 litre Fiats from 2007?

 

[Figaro]

I thought the reverse judder was on the later 2.3 and 3 litre Fiats from 2007?

Correct I believe.
These gearboxes, on early versions, pre 2002, had the 5th gear problem. Juddergate was on versions from 2006/7 onwards I think.

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[bigtwin]

I thought the reverse judder was on the later 2.3 and 3 litre Fiats from 2007?

It was, but only on the 2.3s?

Ian

 

[CazPaul]

It was, but only on the 2.3s?

Ian

I’ve spoke to a quite a few who had it on the 3 litre 2007/2008 as well.

 

[Mikey RV]

It just annoys me that i just want a van that does the job and i can use without worry. Im fed up with it

It only has 29000 miles you'd think it would be hassle free, i opted to have a full new quality clutch fitted and the cambelt etc done so i could have peace of mind and reliability. Its a lot of money but i figured worth it if it saves any break downs , i also planned a full service etc

And this is what happens i genuinely think im bloody cursed or something.. every van i get i get issues.


At least with a cheap 3 grand van you can say well it was cheap and cheerful.

I think what you need is a old Merc to do up.

 

[TinaLes]

Wasnt the reverse "Juddergate" problem solved by changing the reverse gear cog as it was too highly geared?
I know that both MH dealers & fiat dismissed the problem at first, but then had to admit there was a problem after so many complaints from users.
LES

 

[chaser]

Don't know which it was but a few years ago we were watching a van trying to reverse out of the Folkstone campsite when he found he couldn't get down, ended up being loaded up on a breakdown truck

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