Stopped by the police

[David and Sally]

Whilst I fully support checks on any section of the motoring community, especially where safety is the main concern, I was surprised that the police motorcyclist would not have to have some grounds for directing the vehicle to a specific location for inspection.
Any uniformed officer may stop you to examine/check your driving licence, but to enforce a visit to a weighbridge, you would need to have at least some reasonable suspicion that the vehicle was actually overweight in the first place.
Given the woefull lack of knowledge of the relevant law in many fields exhibited by our boys in blue these days, it doesn't surprise me though.
Cb.

A police officer can legally stop any vehicle at any time and ask to see driving documents, check the condition of the vehicle or deal with driving offences. This is not a stop and search and you may be given documentation relevant to road traffic matters.

Vehicle condition includes weights. That needs a weighbridge or roadside equipment. Quite reasonable to do random checks as well as targeted ones.

Woeful lack of knowledge?

 

[Bobby-gg]

This just popped up on my Facebook feed

<Broken link removed>

 

[IRHP]

I presume that’s a joke?

No, as far as I know we aren't legally required to carry any so why ask for them. V5, Tax, MOT, insurance it can all be checked electronically.

 

[nicholsong]

No, as far as I know we aren't legally required to carry any so why ask for them. V5, Tax, MOT, insurance it can all be checked electronically.

Some countries require some or all of those documents to be carried.

Whether those countries can check them electronically on-line, and maybe not for foreign vehicles, their law says you must carry them.

 

[JockandRita]

Some countries require some or all of those documents to be carried.

Whether those countries can check them electronically on-line, and maybe not for foreign vehicles, their law says you must carry them.

As we do Geoff, ie, originals and photocopies, as well as electronic access, if required.........along with the triangles, First Aid Kit, spare bulbs, spare spectacles, breathalysers, ( no way was I getting sucked in to that one. ), High Viz Vests, GB sticker, etc, etc.
In over 15 x years of foreign touring, we've never been asked to produce any of them.

Jock.

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[David and Sally]

No, as far as I know we aren't legally required to carry any so why ask for them. V5, Tax, MOT, insurance it can all be checked electronically.

If things have not changed it is still a legal requirement to carry and produce documents. But, it has been standard practice for decades for an officer to issue a ‘ producer’ HORT1’ which had to the requirement to produce those documents at a nominated police station within seven days.
Nowadays computer systems largely negate that need but I think it is still a legal requirement to carry them.
Serving officers may update me on this…..or I could Google it

 

[sospan]

Twenty years ago I was riding around London on my new BMW M/C complete with a new handmade set of BKS leathers when I was pulled over by a Copper on a M/C. We then had a debate as to whether I was a m/c courier working without business insurance or declaring my earnings to HMRC. I was naturally quite amused by this and asked for the justification of his assumption. Apparently, he had noticed me riding around the area quite frequently. The conversation went r round and round him trying to prove I was a courier, asking for proof of my employer and getting more and more arrogant and agitated. Myself seeking clarification on his assumption based on my appearance and frequency in the area and lack of a courier bib or dispatch bag. It came to a crunch when he demanded to inspect the contents of my motorcycle panniers. I informed him he doesn't want to do that as he will get an unpleasant surprise. Inside was my own Police gear, laptop and cap with lots of braid on the peak. Needless to say his time on traffic was fairly short after that. So indeed there is a small section of the law enforcement community that don't follow the best practice. However, most officers do respond well to unintentional or unexpected breaches of the various rules and regulations.

The responses to this thread underline why the Police, Vosa and the other agencies undertake periodic initiatives over vehicle and enforcement checks. Whilst there may be many offences recorded and warnings given, word soon gets around that there are now checks on M/C's, MH, caravans and certain other types vehicles. So it does pay dividends.

However, what is the biggest burden on Policing that takes officers away from "crime" is the amount of paperwork needed to pursue even a minor crime through the courts system. In business terms it would not make sense, the amount of hours taken to detect and record the crime, write the reports, run it via the crown prosecution services, book the court, the courts time, the defence and prosecution solicitors time. Just to see someone get a £150 fine and no real consequences. A copper may attend 12 incidents in a day which will result in several days of paper work, follow ups and reviews. Time they would prefer to be out with the public.

 

[Platelet]

Anyone here who has been unfortunate enough that they needed the police will know how stretched they are for resources and getting them to come to your aid is not without long delays , and imo to be wasting their time by again picking on the easy motorist is just BS , crimes are so hard these days to solve due to lack of police , so why are they our again targeting the easy targets , the motorist.

And also finding stolen/cloned MH and caravans!

 

[CJK]

This is probably not where I should be asking this but (newbie here looking for first MH) but if I buy one which is say 3.5, surely as soon as I put some stuff in it, it’s going to be over that limit?
Very confused

That will be the maximum running weight. It’s well worth working out how much you can carry up to that limit from the ‘sold’ weight of the vehicle. You can always get checked at a weigh station if you’re in doubt, it doesn’t cost much and can be surprising!

 

[nicholsong]

Twenty years ago I was riding around London on my new BMW M/C complete with a new handmade set of BKS leathers when I was pulled over by a Copper on a M/C. We then had a debate as to whether I was a m/c courier working without business insurance or declaring my earnings to HMRC. I was naturally quite amused by this and asked for the justification of his assumption. Apparently, he had noticed me riding around the area quite frequently. The conversation went r round and round him trying to prove I was a courier, asking for proof of my employer and getting more and more arrogant and agitated. Myself seeking clarification on his assumption based on my appearance and frequency in the area and lack of a courier bib or dispatch bag. It came to a crunch when he demanded to inspect the contents of my motorcycle panniers. I informed him he doesn't want to do that as he will get an unpleasant surprise. Inside was my own Police gear, laptop and cap with lots of braid on the peak. Needless to say his time on traffic was fairly short after that. So indeed there is a small section of the law enforcement community that don't follow the best practice. However, most officers do respond well to unintentional or unexpected breaches of the various rules and regulations.

The responses to this thread underline why the Police, Vosa and the other agencies undertake periodic initiatives over vehicle and enforcement checks. Whilst there may be many offences recorded and warnings given, word soon gets around that there are now checks on M/C's, MH, caravans and certain other types vehicles. So it does pay dividends.

However, what is the biggest burden on Policing that takes officers away from "crime" is the amount of paperwork needed to pursue even a minor crime through the courts system. In business terms it would not make sense, the amount of hours taken to detect and record the crime, write the reports, run it via the crown prosecution services, book the court, the courts time, the defence and prosecution solicitors time. Just to see someone get a £150 fine and no real consequences. A copper may attend 12 incidents in a day which will result in several days of paper work, follow ups and reviews. Time they would prefer to be out with the public.

Did he not 'do you' for impersonating a police officer 'while acting as a courier'?

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[Rumour and Innuendo]

Good to see the boys and girls in blue not wasting time and energy on assaults, burglaries, petty theft and making their presence felt in our towns and villages.

You seriously think the police can only do one thing at a time?

 

[sospan]

Did he not 'do you' for impersonating a police officer 'while acting as a courier'?

Not as much as I did him, he was assigned to non public facing roles - Administration!

 

[sluhgulper]

Good to see the boys and girls in blue not wasting time and energy on assaults, burglaries, petty theft and making their presence felt in our towns and villages.

Then of course, if deterrents weren’t enforced, overloaded caravans and MH’s become a danger to both the occupants and other road users. Have you ever seen the outcome of a crash involving one? I have. Nasty.
In any event, if the government invested as they should on all our public services there would be sufficient police, doctors, nurses, social workers etc, to perform all roles required from them.

 

[Tony50]

Well if I’m ever burgled and there’s no coppers to attend to investigate then I’ll be content in the knowledge that they are weighing motorhomes somewhere .
A pathetic waste of scarce resources.

You could also say a overloaded motorhome becomes unstable especially if rear is overloaded making the steering less positive

 

[Pechris]

Anyone here who has been unfortunate enough that they needed the police will know how stretched they are for resources and getting them to come to your aid is not without long delays , and imo to be wasting their time by again picking on the easy motorist is just BS , crimes are so hard these days to solve due to lack of police , so why are they our again targeting the easy targets , the motorist.

I think you will find that Traffic police do not look into other crimes. Separate teams.

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[Coolcats]

But where I live it's hard to travel far indeed without driving past a fixed anpr camera looking on the road you are driving on

The solution......the disclaimer: I am not endorsing or recommending just showing the art of the illegal possibility

 

[Coolcats]

Not a criminal offence so no criminal record.

​

What Is A Criminal Offence?​

A criminal offence is an act or action that is punishable by law. As speeding is punishable by law with fines, penalty points and driving bans, it is a criminal offence to speed. If caught speeding drivers can face hefty fines and penalty points on their licence after being issued with a notice of intended prosecution setting out the speeding offence code. Speeding offence codes for speeding range from SP10 – SP50 as outlined below.


Is Speeding A Criminal Offence? A Definitive Answer
https://www.motordefencelawyers.co.uk/motoring-advice/is-speeding-a-criminal-offence/
Is speeding a criminal office? Yes, speeding is a criminal offence that is punishable by law. If caught speeding on public roads, drivers will be issued an SP30 or SP50 penalty code by the police and they can face a maximum £1000 fine if on a road and £2500 if on a motorway and 6 penalty points on their licence. Drivers can also be disqualified from driving in the most serious cases of speeding or as a result of accumulating 12 penalty points (a “totting up” disqualification).

It seems that it is a Criminal offence and a record is kept for x period of time

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Tory crime commissioner Caroline Henry banned from driving after being caught speeding five times in 12 weeks

Henry was reportedly teary at times as she gave evidence on Monday, telling the court that relying on public transport would make it difficult to transport her children.

news.sky.com

 

[Larrynwin]

Stupid woman, hadn’t even got the sense to take care after the first time .

 

[Silver-Fox]

Tory crime commissioner Caroline Henry banned from driving after being caught speeding five times in 12 weeks

Henry was reportedly teary at times as she gave evidence on Monday, telling the court that relying on public transport would make it difficult to transport her children.

news.sky.com

I was under the impression anyone with this or other convictions couldn’t hold the post.

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[David and Sally]

Right, I am open to correction. Speeding is a criminal offence but no criminal record is created. The records can last forever but the offence is deemed spent after five years as far as insurance is concerned and three years as far as points on your licence.

They do need to be declared in some jobs, especially if driving is part of that job but not as criminal records are concerned.

 

[Jonno1103]

I was under the impression anyone with this or other convictions couldn’t hold the post.

For 2 of them she'd not be done around here, not at 35 in a 30. She'd be given an awareness course for one of the 38mph's and separate £100 & 3 points for the other two.... £200 & 6 points overall. Magistrates don't tend to deal with these type of speeding offences around Harrogate, Wetherby etc, they're dealt with by the local constabulary.

Back in April 2021 I was pulled at 92mph on the A1m close to junction 47. £100 fine & 3 points, no Magistrates paperwork.

 

[TeamBandS]

Regarding the police stopping caravan on the A470 in mid Wales. Its because of the Royal Welsh Show, a time when farmers tend to take out the old caravan they store in a barn for its annual outing at this show. Many young farmers use this is as a holiday and the caravan is just their crash pad! Not knocking farmers, I lived for many years in mid Wales and saw just how hard farmers work and how much they looks forward to a week at the Royal Welsh. Still not an excuse for unsafe caravans mind.

Slightly off topic, have you noticed how the media is going overboard warning adults that they need to be careful when it gets very hot! No comments made about the difficulties the farmers are facing ....... London centric media????

 

[Pausim]

No comments made about the difficulties the farmers are facing ....... London centric media????

Farmers got a special mention on BBC radio this morning.

 

[Nigel P]

I was under the impression anyone with this or other convictions couldn’t hold the post.

The convictions have to be for imprisonable offences, drink drive for example.

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[Nigel P]

Right, I am open to correction. Speeding is a criminal offence but no criminal record is created. The records can last forever but the offence is deemed spent after five years as far as insurance is concerned and three years as far as points on your licence.

They do need to be declared in some jobs, especially if driving is part of that job but not as criminal records are concerned.

I think the confusion arises in how the criminal justice system describes offence types, in general criminal offences were separated out into 'crime' and 'non-crime'; crimes generally being notifiable offences; and no requirement to keep records of offences which were not 'recordable'. Speeding offences are not recordable so are not on PNC but are held on DVLA database. Nothing simple in the CJ world!

 

[Bart]

The solution......the disclaimer: I am not endorsing or recommending just showing the art of the illegal possibility

Sign me up now!!

 

[Silver-Fox]

The convictions have to be for imprisonable offences, drink drive for example.

Ok thanks.

I won’t say morally she should resign because we know these types have a very low moral bar

 

[Emmit]

A police officer can legally stop any vehicle at any time and ask to see driving documents, check the condition of the vehicle or deal with driving offences. This is not a stop and search and you may be given documentation relevant to road traffic matters.

Vehicle condition includes weights. That needs a weighbridge or roadside equipment. Quite reasonable to do random checks as well as targeted ones.

Woeful lack of knowledge?

Back in the day it was a Max of one mile.
I see, now it's 5 miles. viz.

'If a vehicle is directed more than 5 miles to a weigh site and is found to be within the permitted weight limits, certain provisions for payment of expenses may apply. The 5 miles distance is measured along a practical route on roads suitable for the vehicle.'

 

[cyberyacht]

Those revolving number plates could be handy in a 'rip-off' car park. Swap back to the kosher ones as you go in and out on the public roads.

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