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[PaulC70]

Some of the exaggerated comments on here are like reading the daily mail.

I can't tell if you're serious or trying to be ironic here as that's the first one I've seen in the thread that qualifies

 

[nabsim]

Will type it once more in case previous attempts were with invisible ink.

The tank/cylinder manufacturers state that valves should be changed after 10 years. Once that is done you would need the tank/cylinder pressure testing. There is nobody in the U.K. who can pressure test them, well there are people but the cost is more than buying new.

An individual can do pretty much what they want with a vehicle so long as it is for private use and complies with construction and use and any other regs/codes of practice. If what they chose to do causes harm to anyone else you would have to accept any consequences. I see posts on here where people shout an overweight van wouldn’t be insured (I think it would myself) and some of the same people say nothing wrong in running gas installations that could be dangerous.

It takes all sorts though, I am sure I do a lot of things others would disagree with

 

[Phill D]

Legally you can if you are 'competent'. However, if something really untoward happens be prepared to explain to a court how you were competent, and be prepared to have that questioned especially if what happens indicates you may not be as competent as you thought. Your call.

I agree with your points , but would add…. How will anything be able to establish the age of the system keeping in mind that most dates are either painted on the bottles or pressed into an alloy tag / collar. Both of which will be absent should the bottle decide to ignite in any serious manner

 

[JockandRita]

I agree with your points , but would add…. How will anything be able to establish the age of the system keeping in mind that most dates are either painted on the bottles or pressed into an alloy tag / collar. Both of which will be absent should the bottle decide to ignite in any serious manner

I get where you are coming from Phil, but almost all cylinders I have used over the years, have the important details permanently stamped onto either the shoulder, or the neck of the cylinders.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[TrudeandDall]

I agree with your points , but would add…. How will anything be able to establish the age of the system keeping in mind that most dates are either painted on the bottles or pressed into an alloy tag / collar. Both of which will be absent should the bottle decide to ignite in any serious manner

That's where the professionals who check, service or increasingly check the dates before filling your system come in. They will inform you that you are out of date and refuse to fill you, thereby intervening before that "ignition in any serious manner" that you talk about.. It's their way of providing due diligence to the requirements of law and protection for the layman, who often has no idea of those requirements.

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[funflair]

That's where the professionals who check, service or increasingly check the dates before filling your system come in. They will inform you that you are out of date and refuse to fill you, thereby intervening before that "ignition in any serious manner" that you talk about.. It's their way of providing due diligence to the requirements of law and protection for the layman, who often has no idea of those requirements.

Is it “the law” for private gas tanks? I have searched hi and low and can’t find the details, do you have a link please.

 

[JockandRita]

Is it “the law” for private gas tanks? I have searched hi and low and can’t find the details, do you have a link please.

You and me both Martin.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Phill D]

That's where the professionals who check, service or increasingly check the dates before filling your system come in. They will inform you that you are out of date and refuse to fill you, thereby intervening before that "ignition in any serious manner" that you talk about.. It's their way of providing due diligence to the requirements of law and protection for the layman, who often has no idea of those requirements.

And if you fill at a garage lpg pump? No checks done there.

 

[TrudeandDall]

Is it “the law” for private gas tanks? I have searched hi and low and can’t find the details, do you have a link please.che

 

[funflair]

You and me both Martin.

Cheers,

Jock.

I get the feeling that the gas industry trade organisation have looked at the rules that govern hired bottles (Calor etc) who of course have the facilities to inspect, test and recertify their own bottles, then they have just applied the same thinking to private bottles and fixed tanks without any testing systems being in place they have just decided we all need to buy new tanks at 10 years, of course I could be wrong again.

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[TrudeandDall]

Read through the details in the link on #40 and make up your own mind...

 

[TrudeandDall]

And if you fill at a garage lpg pump? No checks done there.

For now. I'm not advocating that checks should be done - I am realistic.

 

[ChrisL]

Just by way of a comparison, SCUBA cylinders (admittedly higher pressure but non combustible contents) have to be visually inspected every 2.5 years and Hydrostaticley tested (filled with water and pumped up to test pressure) every 5 years, if they don't pass they are made unusable and returned to you with an invoice for drilling a hole in them.

 

[funflair]

Read through the details in the link on #40 and make up your own mind...

Done that and can only see a trade body recommendation to it's members, no link to any specific law.

 

[CAB96]

Is it “the law” for private gas tanks? I have searched hi and low and can’t find the details, do you have a link please.

It effectively is law for any company offering to fill or otherwise service, repair or work on privately owned tanks.

If they were prosecuted by the HSE, they would have to demonstrate in a court that they followed the industry guidance, or if not justify why they didn't.

In the absence of any definitive legislation, an Industry code of practice becomes the de facto minimum legal requirement.

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[funflair]

It effectively is law for any company offering to fill or otherwise service, repair or work on privately owned tanks.

If they were prosecuted by the HSE, they would have to demonstrate in a court that they followed the industry guidance, or if not justify why they didn't.

In the absence of any definitive legislation, an Industry code of practice becomes the de facto minimum legal requirement.

Yes I can understand that thanks

 

[CAB96]

Yes I can understand that thanks

I thought you probably did, but felt compelled!

I don't know if it is different in other legal systems, maybe it is a consequence of our common law historic legal system.

 

[Abacist]

How can you tell if a cylinder is safe just because it is clean and been painted nicely?

How do you ascertain if the internal cylinder walls have been damaged by rust caused by condensation?

I have changed my cylinders and hoses at 10 years. Not worth the risk to me or others!

 

[Stoosal]

It’s all very difficult for both users and commercial operators. Just my thoughts as an everyday user/non expert……am happy to be educated if my thinking is incorrect.

As far as I can read you can do what you wish with a private tank……..but……if you are filling it at a commercial premises then the act of filling it will come under the safe system of working for that company which basically means that it will follow the lpg industry guidelines. They have chosen a ten year period for recertification of a cylinder. They would consider that the guidelines state that before filling it should be inspected etc.

The act of refilling it after that date does not, in itself, appear to be instantly unlawful but would contradict industry guidelines. A suggested course of work. A safe system of working etc. In the event of an accident/injury the HSE would investigate and consider if the failure to follow the guidelines or noted working practices was so serious that it considered a prosecution. I can’t find any specific law which states that filling/use of a cylinder/system after a production/fitting date renders it an immediate illegal act for which there is a stipulated penalty. It is based on guidelines which any subsequent court hearing would consider.

I think the guidelines are very much based around a working industry rather than private users of cylinders/systems but I can understand why commercial operators get nervous when a gas system appears at their premises to be refilled and the potential implications of a HSE investigation if it goes horribly wrong!

My Gaslow cylinders pretty much look like the day they were fitted, bar a bit of dust maybe. I can’t find anybody even willing to consider recertifying them.

I have two calor cylinders. Supplied by calor under a rental agreement. They know what date they supplied them. Both now well past their recertification date. There will be an expectation that most cylinders will return to them within the recertification period during expected useage. My question is why calor haven’t contacted me to get them re certified. Are they now unsafe for me to have. I can’t see anything in my rental agreement about returning them for such a purpose so does that mean that calor considers them safe or do they not have a sufficient working practice in place to ensure customers safety?

I still have a few years left for my current cylinders but it would be nice to have a definitive answer to legality of use or a suitable recertification process for such cylinders.

I’m an optimist…….

 

[JockandRita]

I still have a few years left for my current cylinders but it would be nice to have a definitive answer to legality of use or a suitable recertification process for such cylinders.

Ditto to all of that.

Cheers,

Jock.

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[enark]

I think most have recognised.

HSE and HASAW are work place regulators and regulations.

So would not apply to a leisure activity. However who fits or fills may well be in the work place sohave to comply with relevant laws? Maybe PSSR?

 

[cyberyacht]

I Always turn on at the bottle, make the brews, then off at the bottle.

So did I. A bit less of an issue with a moho. but one should still be careful.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

It’s all very difficult for both users and commercial operators. Just my thoughts as an everyday user/non expert……am happy to be educated if my thinking is incorrect.

As far as I can read you can do what you wish with a private tank……..but……if you are filling it at a commercial premises then the act of filling it will come under the safe system of working for that company which basically means that it will follow the lpg industry guidelines. They have chosen a ten year period for recertification of a cylinder. They would consider that the guidelines state that before filling it should be inspected etc.

The act of refilling it after that date does not, in itself, appear to be instantly unlawful but would contradict industry guidelines. A suggested course of work. A safe system of working etc. In the event of an accident/injury the HSE would investigate and consider if the failure to follow the guidelines or noted working practices was so serious that it considered a prosecution. I can’t find any specific law which states that filling/use of a cylinder/system after a production/fitting date renders it an immediate illegal act for which there is a stipulated penalty. It is based on guidelines which any subsequent court hearing would consider.

I think the guidelines are very much based around a working industry rather than private users of cylinders/systems but I can understand why commercial operators get nervous when a gas system appears at their premises to be refilled and the potential implications of a HSE investigation if it goes horribly wrong!

My Gaslow cylinders pretty much look like the day they were fitted, bar a bit of dust maybe. I can’t find anybody even willing to consider recertifying them.

I have two calor cylinders. Supplied by calor under a rental agreement. They know what date they supplied them. Both now well past their recertification date. There will be an expectation that most cylinders will return to them within the recertification period during expected useage. My question is why calor haven’t contacted me to get them re certified. Are they now unsafe for me to have. I can’t see anything in my rental agreement about returning them for such a purpose so does that mean that calor considers them safe or do they not have a sufficient working practice in place to ensure customers safety?

I still have a few years left for my current cylinders but it would be nice to have a definitive answer to legality of use or a suitable recertification process for such cylinders.

I’m an optimist…….

Surely you have exchanged your cylinders to get new gas. Or have you bought an e bay adaptor and are illegally filling them?

 

[Stoosal]

Surely you have exchanged your cylinders to get new gas. Or have you bought an e bay adaptor and are illegally filling them?

Nope……two 13kg cylinders…..one on a barbecue barely used and the other on a gas heater that sits in the garage that’s been a back up emergency heater for the house.

 

[meanders]

Is the BBQ one a red or green bottle?

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