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[nicholsong]

The tester informed me of a loose metal strap on my RV underslung tank.

But did he writ it in the MOT report as a fail or an Advisory, in which case he has to quote what rule it does or might infringe?

It was good he spotted it and informed you, but was that outside his MOT role?

 

[Northernraider]

But it's not part of the original vehicle so why would they check it on an MOT?

If its insecure it wouldn't matter. It should still fail an mot.

 

[Northernraider]

But did he writ it in the MOT report as a fail or an Advisory, in which case he has to quote what rule it does or might infringe?

It was good he spotted it and informed you, but was that outside his MOT role?

Anything insecure would fail an mot. I can't quote the exact rule but they do have a section for things like that.

 

[funflair]

https://www.liquidgasuk.org/faqs/how-often-should-my-tank-be-tested-and-by-whom

I think that raises more questions than it answers as far as underslung tanks are concerned

 

[CazPaul]

I think that raises more questions than it answers as far as underslung tanks are concerned

Inspected at 10 and 20 years, definitely does raise more questions. By whom?

I’m hoping to get to the 20 year inspection it mentions

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[DavidG58]

My cylinders are approaching 10 years old, very disappointing to find there is absolutely no allowance for exchange so they can be retested and reissued

I can’t imagine that on testing many cylinders fail, so why not recertify and reissue

Similar must apply to underslung tanks , do they have to be removed for testing

 

[funflair]

My cylinders are approaching 10 years old, very disappointing to find there is absolutely no allowance for exchange so they can be retested and reissued

I can’t imagine that on testing many cylinders fail, so why not recertify and reissue

Similar must apply to underslung tanks , do they have to be removed for testing

The rules seem a bit ambiguous to me, looks like they are written for tanks owned by gas supplier rather than private tanks, not sure what the "legal duties" are though.

tested at 10 and 20 years but the duty is that they are checked in accordance with the owner's (usually the LPG supplier) 'Written Scheme'. Such schemes have to meet legal duties but can vary widely

 

[meanders]

By whom?

The classic legal term " by someone competent". In others words someone with suitable experience, knowledge and or training to do the job.

If something goes wrong though, it's down to the tester to show they were competent, not for the authorities to prove they were incompetent.

 

[Dolmen]

Interesting, everyone is quick to condemn the customers action, however, what would you have done in the same circumstances, To be suddenly confronted with a situation you were not expecting it is not unusual to think or say, uh OK, and withdraw to get your thoughts together. Sat here at my keyboard I can clearly see they made the wrong decision, however, if it was me on the ground, at that moment in time, I am not sure what I would have done, just getting out of there to think about it would certainly have been one of the options though as I know I have done it when told I had a bald tyre and should have it changed immediately, I didn't want Audi to do it and drove the car to Kwik Fit. The customer was possibly close to home, possibly full fridge, possibly family waiting to be picked up expecting to go away after they had filled up, just don't know what was going through the customers mind. Anyway, lets hope everything is OK with the customer and anyone he comes in contact with

 

[ianp]

10 Year LPG Tank / Cylinder Testing/Inspection/Replacement

This subject is now becoming more prevalent in the Leisure vehicle industry, many underslung LPG tanks and user owned Refillable cylinders are now either over 10 years old or rapidly approaching this age . We have just recently received a communication from Liquid Gas the LPG trade body...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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[Blaydon]

They have to remove their genes from the pool to qualify but they are going the right way to do this. Hopefully they will not remove someone else’s sensible genes whilst exorcising their own stupid ones.

The gene pool does need chlorine sometimes

 

[Lenny HB]

My cylinders are approaching 10 years old, very disappointing to find there is absolutely no allowance for exchange so they can be retested and reissued

I can’t imagine that on testing many cylinders fail, so why not recertify and reissue

Similar must apply to underslung tanks , do they have to be removed for testing

My Alugas bottles were 10 years old last year I changed them for new bottles in Germany, just over ½ the price of new ones.
Unfortunately only Alugas offer an exchange and you have to do it in Germany, we just had a holiday in Germany, made a change from Spain.

 

[Northernraider]

Interesting, everyone is quick to condemn the customers action, however, what would you have done in the same circumstances, To be suddenly confronted with a situation you were not expecting it is not unusual to think or say, uh OK, and withdraw to get your thoughts together. Sat here at my keyboard I can clearly see they made the wrong decision, however, if it was me on the ground, at that moment in time, I am not sure what I would have done, just getting out of there to think about it would certainly have been one of the options though as I know I have done it when told I had a bald tyre and should have it changed immediately, I didn't want Audi to do it and drove the car to Kwik Fit. The customer was possibly close to home, possibly full fridge, possibly family waiting to be picked up expecting to go away after they had filled up, just don't know what was going through the customers mind. Anyway, lets hope everything is OK with the customer and anyone he comes in contact with

Absolutely.

I would have taken the vehicle home and sorted it myself.

I'm just wondering how the owner who uses the vehicle couldn't see its apparent condition when someone walking out a workshop and not getting on the ground and under it could see it so clearly.

You'd think if it was that obvious the owner/driver would see it.

I know every mark and blemish on my van ....unless it happened in the last few hours

 

[Northernraider]

My gaslow cylinders are 13 years old but are still safe till 2026 according to the dates on the bottles. Fitted in 2011 , I've the original paperwork for them and there's paperwork also in envelopes on the bottles. Not that anyone has ever looked at them when filling them and my fillpoint is inside the locker. All attended service in Greece, Italy, Turkey. There should be a simple check and test system in place for them as I can't see how they suddenly become unsafe days/weeks/months after a date stamp. Especially in this so called age of recycling and climate crisis etc. If I still have the van when they're due to be changed I think I'll be somewhat reluctant to spend another £600+ to change something that still works absolutely fine.

 

[Lenny HB]

My gaslow cylinders are 13 years old but are still safe till 2026 according to the dates on the bottles. Fitted in 2011 , I've the original paperwork for them and there's paperwork also in envelopes on the bottles. Not that anyone has ever looked at them when filling them and my fillpoint is inside the locker. All attended service in Greece, Italy, Turkey. There should be a simple check and test system in place for them as I can't see how they suddenly become unsafe days/weeks/months after a date stamp. Especially in this so called age of recycling and climate crisis etc. If I still have the van when they're due to be changed I think I'll be somewhat reluctant to spend another £600+ to change something that still works absolutely fine.

The older Gaslow bottles have a life of 15 years.

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[Northernraider]

The older Gaslow bottles have a life of 15 years.

I know. Which makes you wonder why it's now 10 years was it a safety issue or a money making issue. You'd think if it was safety they would have recalled the older cylinders.

 

[Lenny HB]

I know. Which makes you wonder why it's now 10 years was it a safety issue or a money making issue. You'd think if it was safety they would have recalled the older cylinders.

It was only Gaslow that did the 15 year bottles all other manufacturers it's always been 10 years.

 

[Bramidan]

I think Basildog was in an invidious situation.
The only thing he could do was offer his professional advice, which he did.
Somebody seemed to suggest he should have looked into how to offer a temporary repair to get the person home, that could have landed him in big trouble. The customer just uses it forever and when it fails, claims it was repaired by a professional who told him it was now ok.
Similarly I don’t think anybody can expect Basildog to “police” individuals LPG systems.

 

[Basildog]

I think Basildog was in an invidious situation.
The only thing he could do was offer his professional advice, which he did.
Somebody seemed to suggest he should have looked into how to offer a temporary repair to get the person home, that could have landed him in big trouble. The customer just uses it forever and when it fails, claims it was repaired by a professional who told him it was now ok.
Similarly I don’t think anybody can expect Basildog to “police” individuals LPG systems.

I learnt at a very early age that doing a customer a favour almost always leads to problems
It doesn’t actually seem to matter what trade you are in it’s all the same in the end .

 

[Bessy765]

Without creeping if Basildon told me it wasn’t safe I would have said do what you need to do to make it safe remove replace whatever. Whist perfectly safe gas under pressure in a cylinder has the potential to cause a lot of damage. I had to assist in the recovery of a fishing boat some 35 meters long of wood construction which blew up and sank in the harbour. When the cause of the explosion a new gas cylinder had been fitted on to oh the wheelhouse the regulator had corroded over time (salt water) the gas had leaked down the vent into the galley and the accumulation had exploded and blew the side out of the boat. Listen to people who know. There is no such thing as a quick fix where gas is concerned.

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[TrudeandDall]

The classic legal term " by someone competent". In others words someone with suitable experience, knowledge and or training to do the job.

If something goes wrong though, it's down to the tester to show they were competent, not for the authorities to prove they were incompetent.

Exactly! In health and safety law everyone is guilty by default and everyone has to prove that they did everything in accordance with the particular H and S requirements to prove thier innocence.

 

[PaulC70]

Interesting, everyone is quick to condemn the customers action, however, what would you have done in the same circumstances

I'd have manned up and taken the advice from Basildog and not risk driving a potential bomb any further, simple.

 

[Northernraider]

I'd have manned up and taken the advice from Basildog and not risk driving a potential bomb any further, simple.

If I had taken the advice of every alleged/claimed/so called expert I've encountered in my life I'd be a very poor man and who still have had things fail.


There's always 2 sides to every story and remember you're only getting one of them on here.


Some of the exaggerated comments on here are like reading the daily mail.

 

[nabsim]

If someone can spot a tank hanging off a van walking across the yard I don’t think it’s being exaggerated. Further inspection showed broken strap and other loose and tank corroded I think the post said.

I can understand it would be a shock to be told this if you never check round to see stuff but to carry on after being told without doing anything to secure it is irresponsible. If it was in a house Charlie would have had to disconnect supply and the customer would not be allowed to use it by law.

Yes I know the regulations aren’t legally enforced (unless something goes wrong) with vehicles not used for hire but that shouldn’t mean folks are defended for doing blatantly dangerous acts.

If I wanted time to think about it the least I would have done is ratchet strap the tank in place while I drove it home to consider. That is if it wasn’t actually leaking of course, or if it was leaking if it could be shut off safely.

 

[Bessy765]

If I had taken the advice of every alleged/claimed/so called expert I've encountered in my life I'd be a very poor man and who still have had things fail.


There's always 2 sides to every story and remember you're only getting one of them on here.


Some of the exaggerated comments on here are like reading the daily mail.

The difference is Basildog is an Expert unlike some of our MP’s would you rather be operated on by a qualified surgeon or some one with a first aid at work certificate holder. Basildog has nothing to gain my posting his opinion on the said motorhome on to serf as a warning to others. In 2003 we had an 55 litre underslung LPG tank by a firm who no longer is trading. It took them 2 days to fit it and when it feel off in 2006 the straps had rusted through. We now have two underslung tanks fitted by RV Installations and the difference in the quality of the brackets and how they are both fitted and protected from corrosion leaves me with no worries as to there safety and durability. You aslso get what you pay for.

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[Northernraider]

The difference is Basildog is an Expert unlike some of our MP’s would you rather be operated on by a qualified surgeon or some one with a first aid at work certificate holder. Basildog has nothing to gain my posting his opinion on the said motorhome on to serf as a warning to others. In 2003 we had an 55 litre underslung LPG tank by a firm who no longer is trading. It took them 2 days to fit it and when it feel off in 2006 the straps had rusted through. We now have two underslung tanks fitted by RV Installations and the difference in the quality of the brackets and how they are both fitted and protected from corrosion leaves me with no worries as to there safety and durability. You aslso get what you pay for.

I draw your attention to post #18 quoted below.

"It was an extremely busy afternoon, we were short staffed and playing catch up all day , there certainly wasn’t time to get involved, in fact we didn’t even realise the vehicle had driven away,
The owner was given the opportunity of having the tank safely removed from the vehicle or leaving it in the carpark to have recovered."


Therefore no one knows whether the owner secured the tank temporarily with a bungy cord or ratchet strap etc before driving off.

Or if he simply drove along the road to another carpark and secured it there.

Or whatever.


That's the point I'm making in some of the daily mail comments based on a one sided story

I can tell you firmly I also would not have left the vehicle to be recovered ... I personally find it quite difficult to believe that if the tank was that insecure that the driver would not have noticed it. It would certainly be moving about with the weight of it and subsequently making a noise everytime it did so.

I've always been someone who takes absolutely everything I read regardless of who it's from with a pinch of salt , and I will generally play devil's advocate and give the benefit of the doubt...why ? Because human beings embelish, enhance and exagerrate things all the time .

That's just me . If you choose to always just believe and accept everything as fact without hearing or seeing the other side That's fine


Anyway . Bored now

 

[JockandRita]

It doesn’t matter an apath what condition it’s in, if it’s 10 years old apparently it needs to be chucked away and a new one

With the emphasis and inverted commas on the word "apparently" Paul.

There should be a simple check and test system in place for them as I can't see how they suddenly become unsafe days/weeks/months after a date stamp. Especially in this so called age of recycling and climate crisis etc. If I still have the van when they're due to be changed I think I'll be somewhat reluctant to spend another £600+ to change something that still works absolutely fine.

You and me both Tam, and I'm not one to shirk safety regulations, so my question.is........where is this "legislation", which requires the private owners of gas vapour take off cylinders, to undergo a 10 or 15 x year retest.......bearing in mind as previously mentioned, ie, I have had Calor cylinders in my possession for well over 10 - 15 x years, still under pressure, but where the contents have just not been fully utilised yet, with no recall whatsover from Calor???
Those refillable cylinders in my MH gas locker are like brand new compared to the Calor ones in my home garage.

In previous years I did find some UN legislation, relating to the 10 x year compulsory testing of liquid take off tanks and cylinders, but for use in vehicles for propulsion.

Jock.

 

[nabsim]

The problem is there is nobody in the UK who can test the cylinders I believe, Gaslow did get a batch done but whoever it was that tested them said it wasn't economically viable so wouldn't do any more. Its one (or more) of the valves that the manufacturers say needs replacing at 10 years. Once that is done you would need somewhere to retest before you can certify for another 10 years so...

There is no way you could remove an underslung and get that tested, (if such a facility existed) then refitted for less than the cost of a new one.

It was only Gaslow who gave 15 years on their first bottles, they have followed the 10 year from manufacturers for a while now.

If my cylinders look good and work ok I won't change them at 10 years unless something makes me reconsider, so long as I can get them refilled that is.

 

[cyberyacht]

Getting back to boat installations, from my, albeit second-hand, knowledge of gas explosions in boats is that they disintegrate completely from the waterline up. I was always bemused at the horror of fellow yachtsmen to my petrol inboard engine whilst being completely sanguine about their gas cookers in the boat.

 

[mitzimad]

The classic legal term " by someone competent". In others words someone with suitable experience, knowledge and or training to do the job.

If something goes wrong though, it's down to the tester to show they were competent, not for the authorities to prove they were incompetent.

In my experience being competent usually hinges on paying some quango for the priverlidge

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