SMART MOTORWAY ?

[Langtoftlad]

Why are motorways with no hard shoulder deemed inherently less safe than dual carriageways ?
The A1 (M) around here goes from 4 Lane motorway with hard shoulder to 2 lanes carriageway with only infrequent lay-bys.

 

[Sandancers]

Why are motorways with no hard shoulder deemed inherently less safe than dual carriageways ?
The A1 (M) around here goes from 4 Lane motorway with hard shoulder to 2 lanes carriageway with only infrequent lay-bys.

Yes and the A1 North of Newcastle is not even dual carriageway for lots of it.

But the difference is, I think, that if your on a M/way then you expect it to be safer than the A1 where it is single carriageway. Like it's a surprise on the M/way to find a stationary vehicle in front of you, whereas on the single bits of the A1 you know you have to be totally on your guard for cars joining from sideroads etc.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Has anyone seen the advert just shown on ITV showing a guy breaking down on what appears to be a Smart motorway, the jist of it is you should go left and it showed him going into one of the safe zones, but then he is then seen over the barrier and away from the motor, which is different to what they tell you to do if you breakdown. The fact that they are putting these PI vids on now and it appears they are changing their tune

 

[ChesterB]

The A1(M) is not technically a motorway (hence the brackets) and not subject to the same legal requirements.
The ONLY reason that these changes are being made is to save money and avoid having to build extra lanes.
I have followed the advice of a friend (retired traffpol) and NEVER use the nearside lane on a Smart motorway, unless I can see clear road for AT LEAST half a mile ahead of you - basically, never.
It needs mass public action to make it clear to the imbeciles who sanction these deathtraps that they are not acceptable to the motoring public.
Without emergency laybye's at least every 500 yards, you put your life, and worse, that of your passengers, at risk every time you drive in one. Cb.

 

[joe and sue]

The A1(M) is not technically a motorway (hence the brackets) and not subject to the same legal requirements.
The ONLY reason that these changes are being made is to save money and avoid having to build extra lanes.
I have followed the advice of a friend (retired traffpol) and NEVER use the nearside lane on a Smart motorway, unless I can see clear road for AT LEAST half a mile ahead of you - basically, never.
It needs mass public action to make it clear to the imbeciles who sanction these deathtraps that they are not acceptable to the motoring public.
Without emergency laybye's at least every 500 yards, you put your life, and worse, that of your passengers, at risk every time you drive in one. Cb.

Therefore if everyone follows that advice then the nearside lane effectively becomes a "Hard Shoulder", what a brilliant idea
Joe

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[Nigel P]

The A1(M) is not technically a motorway (hence the brackets) and not subject to the same legal requirements.
The ONLY reason that these changes are being made is to save money and avoid having to build extra lanes.
I have followed the advice of a friend (retired traffpol) and NEVER use the nearside lane on a Smart motorway, unless I can see clear road for AT LEAST half a mile ahead of you - basically, never.
It needs mass public action to make it clear to the imbeciles who sanction these deathtraps that they are not acceptable to the motoring public.
Without emergency laybye's at least every 500 yards, you put your life, and worse, that of your passengers, at risk every time you drive in one. Cb.

I think you will find the A1(M) is a motorway with all the normal regulations applicable. The (M) simply denotes an upgrade from a previously designated A road, rather than a new road system.

 

[kevenh]

I wish I could find a way to put the film I have on whatsapp on here, it would scare you to death, there was not time to put up a red X, I am not going on any motorway again, I am hoping that TOMTOM will put on a no smart motorway selection

OMG!

The video - with a hop at a key bit but still

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[kevenh]

Many sections of existing motorways already have no hard shoulder, especially when crossing rivers/railway systems. Sections of the M4 from London to Maidenhead 'lost' their hard shoulder when the motorway was upgraded from its original 2 lane to 3 lane configuration which left no room for the hard shoulder where it met with bridge supports.

I was working in Isleworth and had the M4 commute from J12 to Heston.
When work on the M4 smart motorway was approved around 2016 I got a new job.
iirc they need(ed) to rebuild 13 bridges so they could add another lane.
I hadn't done much smart motorway driving to worry about that but I did not need roadworks for +4 years

edit: This work. They are even less sure on how many bridges need altering and say 'x' number than me. (in the part I read)

 

[Markman]

The A1(M) is not technically a motorway (hence the brackets) and not subject to the same legal requirements.
The ONLY reason that these changes are being made is to save money and avoid having to build extra lanes.
I have followed the advice of a friend (retired traffpol) and NEVER use the nearside lane on a Smart motorway, unless I can see clear road for AT LEAST half a mile ahead of you - basically, never.
It needs mass public action to make it clear to the imbeciles who sanction these deathtraps that they are not acceptable to the motoring public.
Without emergency laybye's at least every 500 yards, you put your life, and worse, that of your passengers, at risk every time you drive in one. Cb.

The UK operates on a risk based system with trying to use a fixed pot of money to reduce the risks overall, rather than in one place at a time. We kill about 1,800 people per year on the roads. Rather than spending the extra billions to make smart motorways all 4 lanes, the money would be better used, in terms of lives saved per million £s, by building HS3 or whatever the Liverpool to Leeds/Hull railway will be called, theft taking vehicles of the roads. Less people on them, less deaths ( and congestion).

 

[Wack]

Saw a broken down transit pickup on the smart motorway , M6 18-19 northbound , he'd got it right against the barrier but it was still 50% in lane one about 300m from a refuge

He was out of it, standing in a field , of course nothing on the smart signs until I'd gone past it then it was 60 for the next 3 miles AFTER the breakdown with the signs reading

" report of a breakdown"

What a mess , it's like they just light the whole motorway up while they find it on the cameras

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[Wack]

I also think they monitor user reports from WAZE

If you haven't got it download it to your phone, I use it on every out of town journey even if I know where I'm going , almost always I know there's an object in the road,a speed trap or a broken down car well before I get there

 

[bobnick]

Always amazes me how long it takes to switch the lights off after the road is clear. Must be some really dopey buggers in that telly room.
You could drive for miles and miles with the boards saying "40 Incident" or something, see absolutely nothing, all of a sudden they are off.

 

[Wack]

Always amazes me how long it takes to switch the lights off after the road is clear. Must be some really dopey buggers in that telly room.
You could drive for miles and miles with the boards saying "40 Incident" or something, see absolutely nothing, all of a sudden they are off.

During the lockdown I was working , driving on the M60 the signs went to 50mph but the road was almost empty

I slowed to 50 because amazingly there's a hadex speed camera on the next gantry

The guy behind me didn't, got flashed , next gantry , back to 70 so I guess he now has points and a fine for driving on an empty motorway at under the 70mph limit

 

[Nigel P]

Unfortunately it is not yet a perfect system. Many of the gantry signs run a test program (usually overnight) which can account for clear motorways with speed restrictions in place for a while. Also the driver who got flashed as per the previous comment would have had almost 1 minute to see the change to 50 mph before the cameras are changed to enforce a lower limit. That is about a mile at motorway speeds which suggests they didn't notice or didn't care, both of which can have pretty poor outcomes.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

The wife has to travel up the m1, m18 to work daily, scares the bejesus out of me, i have drilled it into her if she has a breakdown on any m way hard shoulder or not, immediately get out through the passenger side over the barrier and up or down the embankment, and not to go back to the car for any reason whatsoever, then once safe ring the plod.

the reasoning is years ago well before smart motorways a friend of mine was heading south on the M1, broke down and sat in his car on the hard shoulder waiting for the AA, a lorry hit him from behind and he was killed instantly, it was so bad his wife had to identify him from a tattoo on his arm, they wouldn't let her see the rest of him, or what was left, horrific.

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[joe and sue]

The wife has to travel up the m1, m18 to work daily, scares the bejesus out of me, i have drilled it into her if she has a breakdown on any m way hard shoulder or not, immediately get out through the passenger side over the barrier and up or down the embankment, and not to go back to the car for any reason whatsoever, then once safe ring the plod.

the reasoning is years ago well before smart motorways a friend of mine was heading south on the M1, broke down and sat in his car on the hard shoulder waiting for the AA, a lorry hit him from behind and he was killed instantly, it was so bad his wife had to identify him from a tattoo on his arm, they wouldn't let her see the rest of him, or what was left, horrific.

My point exactly, the problem there was not the motorway, but the fact that the lorry was on the hard shoulder, Why, ??
That is what needed to be addressed

 

[MITHRANDIR]

My point exactly, the problem there was not the motorway, but the fact that the lorry was on the hard shoulder, Why, ??
That is what needed to be addressed

That question was asked at his inquest but never answered, as far as i know.

 

[Boris7]

There’s nothing Smart in removing the hard shoulder, it leads to this

The fire engine along with other emergency vehicles simply couldn’t get through, we’re there a hard shoulder the driver in the accident may have lived.

 

[jockaneezer]

It's either France or Germany, but in a situation like this, you're supposed to pull to the outer edges of the carriageways and leave an access route for emergency vehicles down the centre. An idea that should have been an integral part of the smart motorway planning ?

 

[Boris7]

Austria uses that Sytem, but the lanes were simpy blocked by drivers who didn’t expect the traffic to stop so quickly.

I moved to allow the fire engine through and some hammer head drove around me and blocked the road.

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[slowdriver]

Seems that the data suggests they are safer than you might think - for a multitude of reasons:

More or Less - Third wave fears, smart motorways and bra sizes - BBC Sounds

Should we worry about Covid-19 cases rising? Plus are smart motorways safe?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TheBig1]

Austria uses that Sytem, but the lanes were simpy blocked by drivers who didn’t expect the traffic to stop so quickly.

I moved to allow the fire engine through and some hammer head drove around me and blocked the road.

I had one of those this afternoon, pulled to one side to let an oncoming ambulance on blues and twos to get through easily. A van behind me took advantage to overtake the queue of waiting traffic and nearly hit the ambulance head on. Sadly not sign written or their boss would be calling them in to collect their P45 by now

 

[kevenh]

Work on the M4 Smart motorway looks to be progressing to a finish. Well, the J12 Calcot (Reading West) section could be open other than bollards keeping the old hard shoulder off limits.

 

[RetiredPope]

The More or Less analysis was interesting, particularly the suggestion that accidents are reduced because of the abundant speed cameras and drivers feeling less safe with no hard shoulder.

 

[Markman]

Do listen to More or Less from about 10 minutes. In every case the number of accidents and fatalities were lower after implementation of Smart Motorways. Worthwhile but only if you still believe that "experts" can be trusted.

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[bigtwin]

Interesting piece and good to see some independent research into the issue. I’ve previously urged caution wrt jumping on the anti-smart motorway bandwagon and am pleased to hear the conclusions arising from this research.

Ian

 

[Clipgate]

Never forget your merely a slave with a price tag.
Economics before your safety.

 

[jongood]

I really don't understand why so many ofthem have barriers along the nearside. How is wife, granny, children etc supposed to get out? And how are physically disabled people supposed to get over them?

 

[Landy Andy]

Sat stationary on a smart motorway last Saturday. Everybody out their vehicles wondering about. 5 fire appliances, and multiple ambulances couldn’t get through

 

[bigtwin]

Never forget your merely a slave with a price tag.
Economics before your safety.

Would you have been prepared to have paid significantly more for your MH to have had one with crash protection built in, perhaps with roll cage protection, seatbelt pretensioners and run flat tyres?

Economics feature in every decision making process.

Ian

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