SMART MOTORWAY ?

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The whole GB road infrastructure is totally inadequate. Years and years of under funding, not keeping pace with the growth it's not surprising it's in such a mess.
And why does it take so flippin long to do a section of say 20 miles.

If you want to see a good road infrastructure look at the UAE's. Mega investment for years and years. I get get lost all the time as new roads have gone in. And they build them in no time.............then again they do do a days work here.
 
bobnick said:
..then again they do do a days work here.
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The construction companies can afford to employ thousands of workers at +/- £300 per man per month for a 6 day working week. Quite normal for no overtime to be paid paid unless they work so many hours of unpaid overtime.

All that Glitters is not always gold.

Robert
 
Charente16 said:
The construction companies can afford to employ thousands of workers at +/- £300 per man per month for a 6 day working week. Quite normal for no overtime to be paid paid unless they work so many hours of unpaid overtime.

All that Glitters is not always gold.

Robert
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How much...didn't pay my men that much :giggler:
 
bobnick said:
The whole GB road infrastructure is totally inadequate. Years and years of under funding, not keeping pace with the growth it's not surprising it's in such a mess.
And why does it take so flippin long to do a section of say 20 miles.

If you want to see a good road infrastructure look at the UAE's. Mega investment for years and years. I get get lost all the time as new roads have gone in. And they build them in no time.............then again they do do a days work here.
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You cannot compare a sparsely populated rich Gulf state with our overcrowded relatively less rich small island.
Makes no sense at all.
 
Jake Royd said:
You cannot compare a sparsely populated rich Gulf state with our overcrowded relatively less rich small island.
Makes no sense at all.
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Quite true, but i can say that our road infrastructure is well underfunded. The amount the Gov get from transport related taxes that goes to other budgets ain't right.

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Now that we have SMART motorways, what we also need is SMART drivers, not some of the idiots there are about now. :giggle:
 
bobnick said:
Quite true, but i can say that our road infrastructure is well underfunded. The amount the Gov get from transport related taxes that goes to other budgets ain't right.
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You are correct , it is not.
I suppose I reflect on a couple of things about smart motorways.
Pro's:-
Cars are much safer than they were, airbags, forward looking radar etc.
All cars are much more reliable than they were, breakdowns are very rare.
Smart motorways do markedly increase capacity at a modest cost.
They will need, due to the current pressures from deaths, all need upgraded 'stopped vehicle' technology added. But this is cheap to add.

Cons
Drivers are now much more impatient than before (Audi's etc. always up my backside despite going at a reasonable speed.)
Driver distraction is high (info displays, smartphones, sat navs etc.)
Average speeds are high , reaction times are low.

Like many things in the modern world, there is no simple solution and many interrelated things are affected.
 
OK so Smart motorways are less safe than those with hard shoulders, and ideally should not have been introduced (the smart acronym is the silliest part of the whole scheme). But are they inherently unsafe? I don't see an outcry over most dual carriageway roads where laybys will be miles away, there is no camera monitoring, yet traffic can still thunder past at 70mph +.

The problem remains of driver (lack of) awareness. They just are not paying attention, looking ahead and really reading the road. We know of too many accidents even with hard shoulders where stopped vehicles have been hit. I dunno but it almost seems like HGV drivers have training that if they are going to let their vehicle drift out of lane it will be towards the hard shoulder not the middle lane (most of us will have seen this at some stage whilst driving on motorways).

Until drivers can be expected to stay aware and drive in accordance with rules, any road is unsafe. Perhaps automated driverless technology really is the way forward?
 
joe and sue said:
Now that we have SMART motorways, what we also need is SMART drivers, not some of the idiots there are about now. :giggle:
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Unfortunately it only takes one idiot or some one distracted or inexperienced to cause an accident..BUSBY.
 
busby said:
Unfortunately it only takes one idiot or some one distracted or inexperienced to cause an accident..BUSBY.
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Agree totally, i was taken out on the M11 2 years back by an inexperienced, distracted idiot, came down the slip road across 2 lanes of traffic at about 90mph whilst on phone, me in middle lane he clipped my offside rear corner and spun me round, all of 18 years old and passed test 2 weeks before and in mummy's BMW, his excuse was " if you had been going faster i would not have hit you,
I stand by my original statement!!
Joe
 
joe and sue said:
Agree totally, i was taken out on the M11 2 years back by an inexperienced, distracted idiot, came down the slip road across 2 lanes of traffic at about 90mph whilst on phone, me in middle lane he clipped my offside rear corner and spun me round, all of 18 years old and passed test 2 weeks before and in mummy's BMW, his excuse was " if you had been going faster i would not have hit you,
I stand by my original statement!!
Joe
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Definately your fault then,, :LOL: :LOL: :LOL: BUSBY..
 
joe and sue said:
Agree totally, i was taken out on the M11 2 years back by an inexperienced, distracted idiot, came down the slip road across 2 lanes of traffic at about 90mph whilst on phone, me in middle lane he clipped my offside rear corner and spun me round, all of 18 years old and passed test 2 weeks before and in mummy's BMW, his excuse was " if you had been going faster i would not have hit you,
I stand by my original statement!!
Joe
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It was a German car. Don't you know the rules? Always give way to German cars in any circumstance. Doff your cap as they go past and on a narrow street, as you reverse to let them through have your passenger lay down a red carpet on the road.

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ChrisSue said:
It was a German car. Don't you know the rules? Always give way to German cars in any circumstance. Doff your cap as they go past and on a narrow street, as you reverse to let them through have your passenger lay down a red carpet on the road.
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Its weird but it does seem to be Audis,BMWs and VW.Golfs that seem to be driven shall i say recklessly...Not all of them i add,,, :giggle: :unsure::LOL: BUSBY.
 
bobnick said:
The whole GB road infrastructure is totally inadequate. Years and years of under funding, not keeping pace with the growth it's not surprising it's in such a mess.
And why does it take so flippin long to do a section of say 20 miles.

If you want to see a good road infrastructure look at the UAE's. Mega investment for years and years. I get get lost all the time as new roads have gone in. And they build them in no time.............then again they do do a days work here.
Click to expand...
when your willing to allow us to bring in third world labour we too could build miles of roads cheap
 
scally said:
Dont see the relevance ? You break down in the now slow lane your in the mire my friends
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Totally agree sadly. Even though the red crosses do come up showing that the lane is closed quite quickly the non smart drivers stay in them till it's too late
 
Who ever coined the name Smart Motorway!
The concept in my view is defective in so many ways, watch drivers pass Red X closed lanes in all weathers, despite the clear evidence of risk to others and self, it's an offence however no one to enforce it.
We have a fairly lawless country, far less Police than 10 years ago and the public as a rule disregard traffic laws with impunity, not just on motorways.
Inattention is but the tip of the iceberg in my view, blatant disregard for others and the rules and law abound.
Smart motorway is dependent on smart motorists, little evidence in my view exists to suggest that situation is commonplace.
 
Motorway behaviour has been allowed to slowly get poorer and poorer. 'Policing' of motorways is just about non-existent across most police force areas. Public outcry for tougher sentences I do not believe is the real answer; the sentence becomes almost irrelevant if the risk of being caught is almost non-existent. Mobile phone use is probably a good example, difficult to detect so the risk of being caught is slim; hence the penalties offer no real deterrent.
 
Someone mentioned dual carriageways as offering a similar risk, yet I believe there are differences which are based upon expectations. For many years drivers have driven in the knowledge that a hard-shoulder is available, increasingly now that is not the case, so expectations will change over time to accommodate the new normal. In the meantime there will be a cost in relation to death and injury which is a political matter. You are never absolutely safe even when you think things should be OK, I have been hit when parked on an observation platform on the motorway!

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From The Telegraph;


The widow of a man who was killed on a smart motorway will mark her late husband's birthday by parading a giant billboard outside South Yorkshire Police's headquarters demanding that the force prosecutes Highways England over his death.

In a move inspired by the 2017 film "Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri", Claire Mercer hopes to send a very public message to the force, which she claims is refusing to pursue a corporate manslaughter case.

Last month, a coroner ruled that the lack of a hard shoulder had contributed to the deaths of Jason Mercer, 44, and Alexandru Murgeanu, 22, after they stopped in a live lane on the M1 following a minor prang in 2019.

On Tuesday, the digital billboard will display a giant picture of Mr Mercer, explaining that he would have been celebrating his 46th birthday.

Mrs Mercer, 44 and from Rotherham, said: "Drastic times call for drastic measures. We have publicly called on South Yorkshire Police to investigate Highways England. We've had coroners back this call. I've confirmed I will take legal action against the police, and still we get nowhere.

"That's why I have hired a mobile 11 square foot digtal display to ask why they are not taking this seriously."

The van carrying the billboard will drive around the Rotherham and Sheffield areas, as well as outside force headquarters.

"Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri", tells the story of a woman who rents the billboards to call attention to the unsolved rape and murder of her daughter.

Mrs Mercer's lawyers have also written to South Yorkshire's chief constable, Stephen Watson, to demand an investigation.

Her solicitor, Neil Hudgell, said: "Our client feels strongly that there is a case to answer for the offence of corporate manslaughter. The fact is that Highways England has been aware of the obvious risk of removing hard shoulders on motorways, yet has continued to expand the network.

"It has been demonstrated by statistics that the risks presented by stationary vehicles have increased by the use of smart motorways. All of these facts ought to have been known before the death of Jason."

Mrs Mercer set up the campaign group Smart Motorways Kill after the death of her husband.
 
Sandancers said:
From The Telegraph;


The widow of a man who was killed on a smart motorway will mark her late husband's birthday by parading a giant billboard outside South Yorkshire Police's headquarters demanding that the force prosecutes Highways England over his death.

In a move inspired by the 2017 film "Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri", Claire Mercer hopes to send a very public message to the force, which she claims is refusing to pursue a corporate manslaughter case.

Last month, a coroner ruled that the lack of a hard shoulder had contributed to the deaths of Jason Mercer, 44, and Alexandru Murgeanu, 22, after they stopped in a live lane on the M1 following a minor prang in 2019.

On Tuesday, the digital billboard will display a giant picture of Mr Mercer, explaining that he would have been celebrating his 46th birthday.

Mrs Mercer, 44 and from Rotherham, said: "Drastic times call for drastic measures. We have publicly called on South Yorkshire Police to investigate Highways England. We've had coroners back this call. I've confirmed I will take legal action against the police, and still we get nowhere.

"That's why I have hired a mobile 11 square foot digtal display to ask why they are not taking this seriously."

The van carrying the billboard will drive around the Rotherham and Sheffield areas, as well as outside force headquarters.

"Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri", tells the story of a woman who rents the billboards to call attention to the unsolved rape and murder of her daughter.

Mrs Mercer's lawyers have also written to South Yorkshire's chief constable, Stephen Watson, to demand an investigation.

Her solicitor, Neil Hudgell, said: "Our client feels strongly that there is a case to answer for the offence of corporate manslaughter. The fact is that Highways England has been aware of the obvious risk of removing hard shoulders on motorways, yet has continued to expand the network.

"It has been demonstrated by statistics that the risks presented by stationary vehicles have increased by the use of smart motorways. All of these facts ought to have been known before the death of Jason."

Mrs Mercer set up the campaign group Smart Motorways Kill after the death of her husband.
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I have always had personal reservations about Smart motorways, having worked on the motorways for some years I am quite aware how hostile it can be. The hard shoulder is not a 'safe' place, just a little bit safer than a live lane and there have been many fatalities on the hard shoulder over many years, often involving stationary vehicles. I would be very surprised if any prosecution follows in relation to corporate manslaughter as it is probably doomed at the first hurdle, the offence has to show 'cause' rather than 'contribute'. The circumstances are terrible and the driver rightly has a custodial sentence; the facts are quite stark: a driver not paying attention drove into a stationary vehicle on a 70 mph road. It could have been any 70 mph dual carriageway without a hard shoulder. Any argument in court would probably make that very point, it is not the road that is relevant, rather that any collision at that speed with a stationary vehicle would likely result in death. If you look at the A38M Aston Expressway there is no central reservation, it is a motorway but not a dual carriageway, so that type of risk assessment is not new. I think ongoing public scrutiny and publicity is welcome around the Smart motorways but I would be surprised to see a prosecution.
 
I tell my wife it’s safer in the outside lane when she’s having a nag at me for tramping on a bit.
Perhaps it could also be why my fuel consumption is a bit above what most people claim.
I hate motor ways and like the experience to last as short as possible.
 
AndrewL said:
These look good! I've ordered one set and may well buy another set for the van.
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They (lights) are good and work very well, but you need to put them at least a half mile before the breakdown. Walking, that's 10 minutes. Even on good-old hard-shoulders, the average time before being hit was just 11 minutes! With smart lanes, just grab your phone and abandon the vehicle.
 
ChrisSue said:
Totally agree sadly. Even though the red crosses do come up showing that the lane is closed quite quickly the non smart drivers stay in them till it's too late
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It could be the very next truck that hits you, not necessarily the driver being not so smart. How long after a vehicle has stopped in lane one before vehicles are directed to change lanes? Ten seconds? Too late. Five seconds too late again.

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