SMART MOTORWAY ?

[Otter Spotter]

Is the real issue with Smart motorways that They were authorised on the basis that refuges were more frequent that in practice they were actually built Saving money on construction but making them more dangerous.
Also, the standing instruction to drivers needing to use the hard shoulder was to vacate the vehicle ASAP and get over the barrier and away from the vehicle whereas for Smart Motorways, even if you do it get to a refuge is to stay in the vehicle’ which is potentially confusing for some drivers. In the heat of the moment drivers could be dithering trying to decide whether they should or should not get out of the motor, meanwhile 40tons plus of metal is gunning down the lane behind the poor driver and passengers.
Personally if I had to stop on a Smart motorway I would try to drive up the banking, anything to get away from anything coming up behind.

Having travelled on both types of motorway regularly I have grave concerns about matrix lane speed warnings, as many drivers tend to ignore the reduced speed warnings on gantrys as they treat them as warnings many just don’t bother to slow down, the fact that there may be a red x in the nearside lane is not powerful enough to stop drivers from still driving down the nearside lane, maybe Pop up fence in the lane last suggestion is a joke

 

[glenn2926]

Glenn, please stop being so 'full-on' and personal, you don't want to end up in Coventry do you?

A safety zone will take you out of the main roadway, be it hard shoulder or one of the driving lanes - whilst a driver may 'drift' into a hard shoulder they're not likely to do the same into a safety zone.

Both options have merit, the best of both worlds would be hard shoulders WITH safety zones at the side so that once on the hard shoulder if possible you could coast/drive to the safety zone and tuck in out of harms way, but we all know that ain't gonna happen. What we do know is that the current 'smart' system is anything but.

I’m still awaiting the explanation as to how the poster I quoted is going to coast 1/4 mile up hill to the refuge. If people are going to state what they would do in the instances I quoted they could have the decency to reply to my question as to how they will manage it.
Perhaps I’m expecting too much.

 

[LesW]

Not all sections of 'smart m-ways' have a verge to drive on to, the elevated section of the M6 approaching Birmingam is one such place, if you came to a halt here you have nowhere to go.

I read and article written by one of those survival 'experts' that claimed the safest place to stop on a 'smart' m-way was in the middle lane, where approaching vehicles could swerve either side to avoid you... especially if the road curved to the left, meaning the left hand lane would be 'hidden'.

 

[Minxy]

I’m still awaiting the explanation as to how the poster I quoted is going to coast 1/4 mile up hill to the refuge. If people are going to state what they would do in the instances I quoted they could have the decency to reply to my question as to how they will manage it.
Perhaps I’m expecting too much.

Perhaps it's not so much the request for an answer but the way it is asked ...

 

[joe and sue]

Everyone is assuming that there is time to think about what to do when all power is suddenly lost, there is no time for reactions to kick in,!!
I once had an oil pump failure on a mini cooper S on M1 at fairly high speed !! , loss of power and came to a halt in nano seconds.
No time to react at all,
every case will differ, so we need to deal with what ever is thrown at us at the time
Joe

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[glenn2926]

Everyone is assuming that there is time to think about what to do when all power is suddenly lost, there is no time for reactions to kick in,!!
I once had an oil pump failure on a mini cooper S on M1 at fairly high speed !! , loss of power and came to a halt in nano seconds.
No time to react at all,
every case will differ, so we need to deal with what ever is thrown at us at the time
Joe

Suddenly no motive power has happened to me twice on motorways. First time in an eight legged tipper, 19 tonne of 25mm limestone on. Just joined motorway accelerating uphill as best as I could, going for top gear. As I came out of previous gear the gear stick came out of the gear box leaving me in neutral. Lucky to steer onto hard shoulder.
Second time just going for an over take on my motorbike sudden engine stop, pull in clutch and again drift to hard shoulder.
I wouldn’t have made 1/4 mile to the refuge in either case.

 

[joe and sue]

Suddenly no motive power has happened to me twice on motorways. First time in an eight legged tipper, 19 tonne of 25mm limestone on. Just joined motorway accelerating uphill as best as I could, going for top gear. As I came out of previous gear the gear stick came out of the gear box leaving me in neutral. Lucky to steer onto hard shoulder.
Second time just going for an over take on my motorbike sudden engine stop, pull in clutch and again drift to hard shoulder.
I wouldn’t have made 1/4 mile to the refuge in either case.

Scary isn't it. i guess the 8 wheeler was going a lot slower than i was, 19 years old in a rally tuned mini cooper S, on the way home from Silverstone,
Joe

 

[patricia the newbie]

I had a film clip sent to me on whatsapp, some sheep run across the motorway and cause a collision, four people got out of their vehicles on the L/H side. A Lorry came up on the inside L/H and knocked all four people down like skittles. I am NOT going on any motorway again until its changed back to a hard shoulder

 

[glenn2926]

Scary isn't it. i guess the 8 wheeler was going a lot slower than i was, 19 years old in a rally tuned mini cooper S, on the way home from Silverstone,
Joe

Your mini was faster in first than my truck in top.

 

[Spriddler]

A retired traffic police pal told me that when approaching a jam on a motorway to always move over to the nearside lane and stop a suitable distance from the stationary vehicle in front so that if you see in your mirror another vehicle approaching at high speed you can always escape into the hard shoulder. You couldn't do that on the new Smart motorways.

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[Spriddler]

As I came out of previous gear the gear stick came out of the gear box leaving me in neutral.

That happened to me in the Dartford Tunnel in my new company Ford Capri. It caused chaos. The AA bloke towed me out and then asked what gear I wanted which he selected with a screwdriver. The gear lever was (usually) retained by a threaded nylon cup which had stripped. I drove the rest of the day in 3rd., about 120 miles to Southend and back home. Luckily more or less without hills. She got pretty hot and guzzled petrol.

 

[patricia the newbie]

I wish I could find a way to put the film I have on whatsapp on here, it would scare you to death, there was not time to put up a red X, I am not going on any motorway again, I am hoping that TOMTOM will put on a no smart motorway selection

 

[Nigel P]

Not all sections of 'smart m-ways' have a verge to drive on to, the elevated section of the M6 approaching Birmingam is one such place, if you came to a halt here you have nowhere to go.

I read and article written by one of those survival 'experts' that claimed the safest place to stop on a 'smart' m-way was in the middle lane, where approaching vehicles could swerve either side to avoid you... especially if the road curved to the left, meaning the left hand lane would be 'hidden'.

So when getting out of the 'safe' car you have to cross another live lane to a barrier! Doesn't sound like an expert to me. Hardshoulder or not the safest place is to get out on the nearside if possible and get behind a barrier, being cold and wet is preferable to death.

 

[LesW]

So when getting out of the 'safe' car you have to cross another live lane to a barrier! Doesn't sound like an expert to me. Hardshoulder or not the safest place is to get out on the nearside if possible and get behind a barrier, being cold and wet is preferable to death.

What barrier would that be then on an elevated section of road?

As for staying in the middle of the m-way, I think it was a one of those working out the odds sort of thing. I'm not necessarily agreeing.

 

[Nigel P]

True, elevated sections with continuous fixed walls pose a problem. No instant solution for those locations. Many sections of existing motorways already have no hard shoulder, especially when crossing rivers/railway systems. Sections of the M4 from London to Maidenhead 'lost' their hard shoulder when the motorway was upgraded from its original 2 lane to 3 lane configuration which left no room for the hard shoulder where it met with bridge supports. Miles of French motorways have only a narrow marginal strip instead of a hard shoulder. In the UK we have become so used to having a hard shoulder it seems hard to view the smart motorway as an improvement. The development of smart motorways was never about making them safer, merely no less safe than previous systems with the added benefit of improved traffic management. I mentioned in a previous post that I do not approve of the loss of the hard shoulder but motorways remain statistically the safest road systems accounting for around 5/6% of casualties. It is driver behaviour that is the true danger.

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[busby]

Not all sections of 'smart m-ways' have a verge to drive on to, the elevated section of the M6 approaching Birmingam is one such place, if you came to a halt here you have nowhere to go.

I read and article written by one of those survival 'experts' that claimed the safest place to stop on a 'smart' m-way was in the middle lane, where approaching vehicles could swerve either side to avoid you... especially if the road curved to the left, meaning the left hand lane would be 'hidden'.

THAT would be squeekie bum time,,,,BUSBY.

 

[busby]

Nothing to do really with smart motorways but what you could expect on any motorway..Watched a recent police pursuit program last night.A police patrol car attempting to pull a driver doing in excess of 150 mph on the M56,,,150 mph for no reason it turned out when he eventually stopped..His punishment 500 pound fine,,points and a short ban ....What message are the courts sending out...BUSBY..

 

[joe and sue]

Nothing to do really with smart motorways but what you could expect on any motorway..Watched a recent police pursuit program last night.A police patrol car attempting to pull a driver doing in excess of 150 mph on the M56,,,150 mph for no reason it turned out when he eventually stopped..His punishment 500 pound fine,,points and a short ban ....What message are the courts sending out...BUSBY..

As Podney would say "Shoot Him"!!

 

[Sandancers]

Nothing to do really with smart motorways but what you could expect on any motorway..Watched a recent police pursuit program last night.A police patrol car attempting to pull a driver doing in excess of 150 mph on the M56,,,150 mph for no reason it turned out when he eventually stopped..His punishment 500 pound fine,,points and a short ban ....What message are the courts sending out...BUSBY..

I always thought that speeds in excess of 100mph resulted in a prison sentence ? Any ex cops comment ?

 

[glenn2926]

I always thought that speeds in excess of 100mph resulted in a prison sentence ? Any ex cops comment ?

Only for motorcyclists it would appear.

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[SpeedyDux]

What barrier would that be then on an elevated section of road?

As for staying in the middle of the m-way, I think it was a one of those working out the odds sort of thing. I'm not necessarily agreeing.

Did that armchair "expert" test his staying in the middle lane theory and live to tell the tale?

 

[SpeedyDux]

Nothing to do really with smart motorways but what you could expect on any motorway..Watched a recent police pursuit program last night.A police patrol car attempting to pull a driver doing in excess of 150 mph on the M56,,,150 mph for no reason it turned out when he eventually stopped..His punishment 500 pound fine,,points and a short ban ....What message are the courts sending out...BUSBY..

I saw that one, on C5. I also thought the 3 month ban was very lenient for hooning along at over 150 mile after mile.

This isn't Germany where other drivers expect that sort of motorway speed and won't suddenly change lane into his path without looking in their mirrors for ultra fast traffic approaching behind them. In the UK many dozy drivers don't indicate before changing lane so expecting them to check mirrors as well seems optimistic.

 

[LesW]

Did that armchair "expert" test his staying in the middle lane theory and live to tell the tale?

If memory serves me correct, he was one of those people who could survive a nuclear blast with a Smartie tube type of person.

 

[frogijock]

A smart motorways is only as smart as the operator of the cameras and overhead warning gantries

 

[joe and sue]

A smart motorways is only as smart as the operator of the cameras and overhead warning gantries

And more important, those using it !!

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[bigtwin]

police patrol car attempting to pull a driver doing in excess of 150 mph on the M56,,,150 mph for no reason it turned out when he eventually stopped..His punishment 500 pound fine,,points and a short ban ....What message are the courts sending out...BUSBY..

I always thought that speeds in excess of 100mph resulted in a prison sentence ? Any ex cops comment ?

Only for motorcyclists it would appear.

We watched that show too and I made that very remark to my wife; had that been a motorcyclist they would undoubtedly have been handed a custodial sentence.

Ian

 

[glenn2926]

We watched that show too and I made that very remark to my wife; had that been a motorcyclist they would undoubtedly have been handed a custodial sentence.

I’ve over the years seen this quite a few times. I suppose we could decide to motorcyclist as our religion then claim some sort of ism🏍.

 

[Minxy]

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[SpeedyDux]

<Broken link removed>

Expecting someone like Grant Shapps to do u-turn and abolish smart motorways is wishful thinking. Apparently Mr Shapps owns a private plane.

Until a VIP like him gets killed after stopping in a live lane nothing much will be done.

 

[Cobnarowl]

My first experience of a Smart Motorway was on the M25.We were crawling along at 5mph then stopping etc etc.The overhead gantries were showing recommended speeds of 40mph!

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