Site fees v pension

[Langtoftlad]

When you own a motorhome you buy into a lifestyle that's definitely not cheap.

Cheap? But perhaps good/great value [I refer the honourable member to my Micawber quote above].
I would assert that MH lifestyle is getting away more often, for longer... than those taking 'regular' holidays & mini-breaks.
But in anycase, I don't think "motorhomers" as a classification fit into a single group at all.

 

[Spriddler]

So called millionaires & billionaires on paper are found to be almost pauperish in practice with few if any liquid assets.

It's only when the tide goes out that you discover who's been swimming naked.

Warren Buffett

 

[gus-lopez]

I don't think in that case they would have a. Motorhome, if you also add the cost of insurance tax and diesel.

Cooeee.Ihave one.

If someone ONLY has a state pension as income they will also get other stuff paid for them such as council tax so its not quite so cut and dried as only having a £630 state pension to live on.

err only if they live in the UK. Otherwise it is the basic pension and I don't get the full amount either

Someone to whom £27.00 a day is an absolute fortune will not have a MH tucked away ready for their holidays so the premise is, at best, spurious.

as above and a house here

Remember, campsites are not just "parking on a bit of grass" any more than paying for a hotel room is just "sleeping in a bed

They're to me the same as eating is just fuel.

 

[Twogirls]

gus-lopez I agree, eating may be just fuel to some, but to others it's the whole experience they're willing to pay for, otherwise there wouldn't be any market for fine dining restaurants.

 

[Minxy]

err only if they live in the UK. Otherwise it is the basic pension and I don't get the full amount either

But I thought the cost of living was much cheaper there especially council tax? As a 'pensioner' do you get any benefits/discounts etc because of being a Spanish resident?

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[RobbieBear]

'I grumbled about having no shoes, until I met a man with no feet'.

I personally see a motorhome purchase as a lifestyle choice and spend what I feel I personally can afford.

Now, the motorhome I have just ordered is getting on for £60k. The only reason I can afford to pay that is as a result of a pension pot associated with a previous job. I am not retired and my current job will provide me with a modest pension as well as a lump sum in due course.

Now, I could grumble that I can't afford one of the much more expensive models or, on the other hand, consider myself lucky that I have the resources to buy the one I have ordered.

Once the money has been spent, I will have a motorhome, just like the person who pays £10k or the person who pays £150k.

The more important consideration is actually owniing and using the motorhome and the costs associated with this.
If I had been gifted the motorhome, my ongoing costs would be the same.
The van will need to be insured every year, let's say £350
The van will need to be stored (in my case), about £300
It will need to be serviced every year, at least whilst in warranty, another £250 say. I will need to have an annual habitation check at say £200.
It will need to be taxed every year at £270.

So that adds up to around £1500 or around £125 a month, every month. And that's before going anywhere! Add to that fuel costs, campsite costs, replacing consumables like tyres etc, purchasing equipment needed for the van, repairs, and we are talking about a significant ongoing investment which I needed to make sure I could fund into retirement. Otherwise it is not a choice I would have made.

Most of these costs will be the same whether your van cost £10k or £150K

My point is that owning and using a motorhome is not cheap. Folk have to ensure that they will be able to meet those ongoing costs.

 

[NorthernSoul]

'I grumbled about having no shoes, until I met a man with no feet'.

I personally see a motorhome purchase as a lifestyle choice and spend what I feel I personally can afford.

Now, the motorhome I have just ordered is getting on for £60k. The only reason I can afford to pay that is as a result of a pension pot associated with a previous job. I am not retired and my current job will provide me with a modest pension as well as a lump sum in due course.

Now, I could grumble that I can't afford one of the much more expensive models or, on the other hand, consider myself lucky that I have the resources to buy the one I have ordered.

Once the money has been spent, I will have a motorhome, just like the person who pays £10k or the person who pays £150k.

The more important consideration is actually owniing and using the motorhome and the costs associated with this.
If I had been gifted the motorhome, my ongoing costs would be the same.
The van will need to be insured every year, let's say £350
The van will need to be stored (in my case), about £300
It will need to be serviced every year, at least whilst in warranty, another £250 say. I will need to have an annual habitation check at say £200.
It will need to be taxed every year at £270.

So that adds up to around £1500 or around £125 a month, every month. And that's before going anywhere! Add to that fuel costs, campsite costs, replacing consumables like tyres etc, purchasing equipment needed for the van, repairs, and we are talking about a significant ongoing investment which I needed to make sure I could fund into retirement. Otherwise it is not a choice I would have made.

Most of these costs will be the same whether your van cost £10k or £150K

My point is that owning and using a motorhome is not cheap. Folk have to ensure that they will be able to meet those ongoing costs.

You also need to take into account two other costs. 1. Depreciation 2. Lost returns on investment. The total for that could be £5k per year, maybe more. Those figures will be lower on an older motorhome, but the annual maintenance costs are then likely to be higher.

 

[gus-lopez]

But I thought the cost of living was much cheaper there especially council tax? As a 'pensioner' do you get any benefits/discounts etc because of being a Spanish resident?

yes the cost of living is far cheaper . & no there is no benefits associated with being a pensioner here-

 

[chaser]

I was just compareing a £27 site fee with a pension of £21 a day, not considering how much the van was, someone on a pension might have the same old camper they have had for thirty years but that still doesn't say they are wanting to pay more than they earn on parking it up.
Just the same as someone who has spent all the money they have in the world on a 60 grand mh and now living on a pension.
My op was purely compareing site fees to a pension.

 

[2x2camper]

You would be hard pushed to find a hotel or other accommodation for £27 a night which is what you are comparing it against.

The local Caravan club site has seasonal pitches, 234 nights for £1,400, so around £6 a night.

Except when comparing a motorhome to a hotel room you need to factor in the cost of the motorhome.

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[movan]

After reading elsewhere on here about someone paying £27 a night for a pitch, and as I would never think about paying so much except in a certain few times just got thinking . Some on here never do anything else but use sites and look down on flt and others who look for free Aires but if you say an average of £25 for thirty nights comes to £750 a month, my pension is around £620 and on that you are supposed to live all in not just to park up for the night.
Makes me think, don't know about others.
Btw not pleading poverty here as I have other income, but for someone who hasn't, it's an impossible situation.

Thank you for understanding the situation that some if us are in.

 

[movan]

I don't think in that case they would have a. Motorhome, if you also add the cost of insurance tax and diesel.

We do. We hardly eat, heat, buy new clothes, waste water, etc...... but we accept that is the price we pay for having put all our savings into a motorhome and feeling freedom ...... sometimes.

 

[movan]

A holiday is a luxury as is owning a MH so those who already have a MH and only receiving state pension are unlikely to go away that often so will no doubt save their money for when they can, just as anyone working would also do. If someone ONLY has a state pension as income they will also get other stuff paid for them such as council tax so its not quite so cut and dried as only having a £630 state pension to live on.

I wouldn't stay on expensive sites anyway unless in an emergency or for an exceptional reason, and certainly not for that duration of time and I suspect many others wouldn't, not in the UK at least.

No they don't get other benefits. .

If they save up every e ny, as they HAVE to do, in anticipation of the costs of a motorhome and its maintenance, tyres, etc., their small savings stops them getting council tax benefits et all. (Unless they knew all the scams before saving up... )

 

[jessthedog]

We do. We hardly eat, heat, buy new clothes, waste water, etc...... but we accept that is the price we pay for having put all our savings into a motorhome and feeling freedom ...... sometimes.

Have you thought about getting a VW type camper? You could then use it as your daily drive. They are not much bigger than a car.
Get rid of your car. One lot of maintenance, tax, insurance.less worry!
It is a vehicle that is one of the best for depreciation. Its a compromise on space on your bigger motorhome, But if you use sites, you will be using it daily and can still meet up and camp with your mates.
Just an idea

 

[movan]

Have you thought about getting a VW type camper? You could then use it as your daily drive. They are not much bigger than a car.
Get rid of your car. One lot of maintenance, tax, insurance.less worry!
It is a vehicle that is one of the best for depreciation. Its a compromise on space on your bigger motorhome, But if you use sites, you will be using it daily and can still meet up and camp with your mates.
Just an idea

Hi sunshine looked at that idea definitely... think I put a thread on it somewhere... Had to change ideas as it now may be a turn in the road and going full time in my mh. . Depends on health and finances.

It isn't what I want but hey ho. Annoyed as in this situation.. Cashed good private pensions in so I could financially keep and care for mum and dad at home. Care in the community was a big lie. (Don't want the thread to go onto MY situation though... Have looked at every variation possible in great detail.)

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[jessthedog]

Hi sunshine looked at that idea definitely... think I put a thread on it somewhere... Had to change ideas as it now may be a turn in the road and going full time in my mh. . Depends on health and finances.

It isn't what I want but hey ho. Annoyed as in this situation.. Cashed good private pensions in so I could financially keep and care for mum and dad at home. Care in the community was a big lie. (Don't want the thread to go onto MY situation though... Have looked at every variation possible in great detail.)

Sorry to hear it has come to that I didnt see that thread.
Obviously you are running out of options. Im sure something will crop up. Keep your head up and stay positive

 

[Lynne Roy]

I'm sorry I started this now, all I was trying to convey was the difference in the way people look at it, I know all about saving and no they wouldn't do 30 days at once, but to some £27 a night is chickenfeed and they say why do folks try to find free places but if you are used to living on twenty pounds a day , £27 is pie in the sky.

I totally understood what you were meaning, and I agree. We spend 9 months a year in our Motorhome and we never use any of The campsite facilities, apart from the laundry which we pay for, so I find them not always value for money. I like the new camper parks, excellent prices. I love Bonterra park, but when I paid my bill for the month I realised I could have rented a lovely apartment for probably less money , but that was November. I am happy to pay for a great location but as we are currently living off our savings due to hike in pension age rise I was unaware of, we too have to be careful.

 

[spitfire]

yes the cost of living is far cheaper . & no there is no benefits associated with being a pensioner here-

I don’t think it is here except for the wine of course lol. And no benefits for pensioners . But know where I would rather be lol

 

[Coolcats]

After reading elsewhere on here about someone paying £27 a night for a pitch, and as I would never think about paying so much except in a certain few times just got thinking . Some on here never do anything else but use sites and look down on flt and others who look for free Aires but if you say an average of £25 for thirty nights comes to £750 a month, my pension is around £620 and on that you are supposed to live all in not just to park up for the night.
Makes me think, don't know about others.
Btw not pleading poverty here as I have other income, but for someone who hasn't, it's an impossible situation.

It is an interesting thought as its not just pensioners, both myself and wife have camped for many years and there was a time when we toured Europe in an old Fiesta, It did not have a heating element...we couldn't afford it we could just about afford the fuel, campsite fees and made all our own meals. As has been said you cut your cloth to suit your means. If we could not afford a MoHo we would still just use the Tent.

Just to add though the UK State pension is miserly, and its being paid out later, its unfair for Women and Men. If someone has done a hard labour job for the working career their body is probably pretty knackered. Some people are physically worn out by 65 some are mentally worn down and there are others who are both physically and mentally wrecked. Others may have had the good fortune of high incomes and able to invest and retire early so I do get where Chaser is coming from.

 

[2657]

We had to sell our house in order to afford a motorhome and travel the way we wanted to after my wife retired and I was still not getting a pension.
Luckily I was able to plan via a spreadsheet our future finances to some degree using the capital from the sale and planning on renting when we need to return to bricks and mortar.
That planning always included an amount for site fees but we always look for the best value, not the cheapest and if we really wanted to be in a certain location then we would pay the rate........or not depending on circumstances.

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[Spriddler]

Just to add though the UK State pension is miserly, and its being paid out later,

Indeed, it's a cost-cutting exercise. Pensions have to be funded by the contributions of those currently working since your and my 40 or 50 years of contributions have already been spent on other things by successive Gov'ts.
I've nothing against students going to Uni but just as an example of where some of it has gone/is going:

"34% (in 2018) of youngsters are going to Uni and leave with considerable debt. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans will be around £560 billion (2019‑20 prices) by the middle of this century. The average debt among the cohort of borrowers who finished their courses in 2019 was £40,000. Outstanding student loans at the end of March 2020 reached £140 billion. The Gov't estimate that only 17% of student debt will ever be repaid".
(commons.library.uk).

It's a sobering thought that many will not earn enough to repay their loan so will they be able to afford a motorhome?.................

"If you began your course after 1 September 2012 in England or Wales, you’ll have a Plan 2 loan. You’ll begin paying off your student loan when you earn over £26,575 a year, £2,214 a month or £511 a week".
( www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk )

 

[Coolcats]

Indeed, it's a cost-cutting exercise. Pensions have to be funded by the contributions of those currently working since your and my 40 or 50 years of contributions have already been spent on other things by successive Gov'ts.
I've nothing against students going to Uni but just as an example of where some of it has gone/is going:

34% (in 2018) of youngsters are going to Uni and leave with considerable debt. The Government forecasts the value of outstanding loans will be around £560 billion (2019‑20 prices) by the middle of this century. The average debt among the cohort of borrowers who finished their courses in 2019 was £40,000. Outstanding student loans at the end of March 2020 reached £140 billion. The Gov't estimate that only 17% of student debt will ever be repaid (commons.library.uk).

Indeed just ask the workers to pay a bit more in and they would in the main be happy to do so, you could even tier it if you wanted too.

Regarding students and universities, being fairly cynical at times if the youngsters did not go to UNI they would have no work so in essence the parents often subsidise unemployment by paying the students UNI fees and that are the ones that can afford it. As an Adult like many I did an OU undergrad degree then a Masters. it would be hard to justify today the OU is around £6K for 360 points and a brick uni is £27K (9K per year for 3 years) and between £8,100 and £16,000 for a taught Masters depending on subject

Its no wonder there is debt.

 

[On the road again]

Except when comparing a motorhome to a hotel room you need to factor in the cost of the motorhome.

Whilst hotels build and maintain themselves?

When purchasing a hotel a rough rule of thumb, dependent on the range and scope of public facilies and the location, is that it will cost circa 100k per room .40 roomed hotel costs approx £4m to buy

That explains why what seems expensive to 'rent' overnight seems costly IF you only consider the consumables- laundry, toiletries, cleaning cost etc.

 

[gus-lopez]

As an Adult like many I did an OU undergrad degree then a Masters. it would be hard to justify today the OU is around £6K for 360 points and a brick uni is £27K (9K per year for 3 years) and between £8,100 and £16,000 for a taught Masters depending on subject

One of my bro-in-laws , aged 48, but he told them he was 10 years younger,did an attended uni course in graphics & design with a year work experience between years 2 & 3 ,Lego, paid nothing & they even supplied foc laptops. He Followed that with a 2 year masters , applied for a funded by Audi . He had some great ideas but unfortunately had a heart attack whilst alone & passed away.

 

[Coolcats]

One of my bro-in-laws , aged 48, but he told them he was 10 years younger,did an attended uni course in graphics & design with a year work experience between years 2 & 3 ,Lego, paid nothing & they even supplied foc laptops. He Followed that with a 2 year masters , applied for a funded by Audi . He had some great ideas but unfortunately had a heart attack whilst alone & passed away.

That is really sad and hard for the family and friends I guess

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[hymerman]

Amazing how quickly replies go off topic.

I also really get annoyed with people who use the expression of FLT when referring to other motor homers and all that implies.
It is absolutely no one elses business if someone chooses to wild camp or not.
I sometimes wild camp and sometimes stay on campsites, no one elses business what I choose to do.

 

[Clipgate]

I am sure this thread is as divisive as Brexit, for my part paying to park on a field with moisture filling every underside crevice is totally obscene.
I have met wonderful people (some not so) over the years. Shared a little of there lives and consumed the odd glass of wine in the bargain for very little cost. If any.
Concentration camp living is definitely not for me,(official CCC sites etc).
For others that enjoy these facilities and sense of safety that I fully understand.

 

[Nasher]

Others may have had the good fortune of high incomes

Excuse me! It wasn't good fortune, I worked bloody hard for my high income

 

[Coolcats]

Excuse me! It wasn't good fortune, I worked bloody hard for my high income

Good for you there are some who may not have the academic or commercial firepower that those who enjoy a high income have, good for you and hope you enjoy the fruits of your labour for years to come.

For the others who work bloody hard yet get low income I also wish them well too.

 

[bobnick]

Wow. Interesting topic.
We have a Motorhome, we can afford it. We can stay on any site we choose.

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