Site fees v pension

[Coolcats]

Perhaps I’m odd but well before the age of 20 I understood pretty well the significance of compound interest.

When I started my first full time job (as a 16 year old apprentice, living away from home and paying rent for my accommodation) I recognised the benefit of having a deduction from wages for my pension so had no issues whatsoever with this.

As I said, perhaps I’m odd but I do struggle with the notion that youngsters are not capable of mature thoughts/reasoning. However, evidently, some folks do make poor life choices.

Ian

We all experience the world differently, my first wages as an apprentice were £6 £2 for my keep, £2 for fair which left me £2 for a couple of beers and a night out it left nothing to save bar buying a few clothes.

"According to a report in the Sunday Telegraph, the plans to increase the national living wage from £8.72 to £9.21 in April 2021 are seen as “unaffordable” by the government, and it may consider applying an “emergency brake” to further rises"

I don't think that understanding compound interest is going to help those on the national living wage get a larger pension somehow

But I do agree, if you are in a position to save for retirement do so but not everyone is able to and therefore if we want a civil society a decent state pension helps.

So I do understand where the OP is coming from.

 

[The Wino]

I think it's more a case of having some experience of the real life work environment alongside doing the brain work. And having some experience of financial hardship. This might explain it better: https://theescapeartist.me/2020/10/04/what-doesnt-kill-you-makes-you-stronger/

My experience was that back in the 1970,s the people taking apprenticeships were either people who had a greater aptitude and interest in practical things or wanted to earn money sooner. The world has changed. A lot of those well paid stable jobs have dissapeared I'm probably a bit of a dinosaur with my science bias but to think people gain educational qualifications by accident is largely untrue I would say some of those apprentices in the past were people who actually could have acheived a lot more at school but either didn't think education was "cool" or couldn't accept that up to a certain age you had to do things like poetry appreciation "yawn". I accept that after a good early start due to my mum's efforts to make sure I passed my 11+ I was a bit of a skiver despite being the first person ever to get to university. But I'm proud of our kids for example our daughter did her French GCSE at 14 as at 16 grade 8 piano and jazz sax music GCSE as an extra for fun a 1st in nuclear science and materials at MSc level now working in high tech engineering. Now there will no doubt be a few old guys in engineering sneering because she hasn't worked on the tools but guess what the worlds moved on! Was she a skiver because she never had a"proper job" until she was 22 I think not.

 

[The Wino]

Financial planning should be a school subject

I think it should be part of life skills but it needs setting at a practical level.

 

[The Wino]

We all experience the world differently, my first wages as an apprentice were £6 £2 for my keep, £2 for fair which left me £2 for a couple of beers and a night out it left nothing to save bar buying a few clothes.

"According to a report in the Sunday Telegraph, the plans to increase the national living wage from £8.72 to £9.21 in April 2021 are seen as “unaffordable” by the government, and it may consider applying an “emergency brake” to further rises"

I don't think that understanding compound interest is going to help those on the national living wage get a larger pension somehow

But I do agree, if you are in a position to save for retirement do so but not everyone is able to and therefore if we want a civil society a decent state pension helps.

So I do understand where the OP is coming from.

I think understanding compound interest though might well help some a avoid overstretching themselves and taking out loans at high rates phones on contracts etc

 

[Spriddler]

It seems likely that many of today's 'youngsters' in rented accommodation won't have the benefit of downsizing a mortgage-free house to free up capital when retiring.

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[Reallyretired]

'I grumbled about having no shoes, until I met a man with no feet'.

Should have asked if he'd got any shoes he didn't need.

 

[On the road again]

Sorry don't understand what you are getting at ? I am not the OP. My 2 posts on the subject are

Site fees v pension

When you own a motorhome you buy into a lifestyle that's definitely not cheap. Cheap? But perhaps good/great value [I refer the honourable member to my Micawber quote above]. I would assert that MH lifestyle is getting away more often, for longer... than those taking 'regular' holidays &...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Which say's you have to include the cost of the motorhome not just the site fee when comparing costs

Site fees v pension

It is absolutely no one elses business if someone chooses to wild camp or not. I sometimes wild camp and sometimes stay on campsites, no one elses business what I choose to do. To some extent that's true. However, if the irresponsible actions of some 'wild campers' (and that includes locations...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

And cost of maintaining the hotel are included in the hotel room fee.

I referred to your OP, post number 40 not the OP.
Your 1st post was -
"Except when comparing a motorhome to a hotel room you need to factor in the cost of the motorhome. "

which I reponded to in post 53

"Whilst hotels build and maintain themselves?

When purchasing a hotel a rough rule of thumb, dependent on the range and scope of public facilies and the location, is that it will cost circa 100k per room .40 roomed hotel costs approx £4m to buy

That explains why what seems expensive to 'rent' overnight seems costly IF you only consider the consumables- laundry, toiletries, cleaning cost etc. "

You then reponded with your post number 66 "no that's included in the room fee" to which I responded in my post number 84
"How does that compare to your OP where you say "except that you have to factor in the cost of the MH" then?
In one post you have to factor in the capital cost (MH) yet , in the other ,a hotel room, you don't? "

I was pointing out that you had said that the capital cost of the MH had to be considered in your 1st post but seemed to indicate that it didn't apply to a hotel and I made the point that a hotel also has a capital cost to which you responded that it was included in the room fee (post 66) and I gave the example in my post 84 that many see a hotel price as expensive because they don't consider the capital cost in their calculations, just the consumables.

It was only in your subsequent post "included in the room fee" that you indicated that it seemed you had considered the capital cost i.e it was included (post 66) but, to me, that didn't seem to square with your OP (40) on the thread, hence my post 84.

Apologies for the convoluted explanation and thanks for appreciating , unlike many others when comparing hospitality prices, that it's not just the price of the consumables that make up the cost.

As a retired hotelier I was guilty of jumping to the defence of hospitality which is so often challenged about it's pricing becasue so many see the cost of a steak in the butchers as the cost they should pay for their meal.

 

[PeteH]

It seems likely that many of today's 'youngsters' in rented accommodation won't have the benefit of downsizing a mortgage-free house to free up capital when retiring.

Sad, but in many ways true. However very large numbers of Europeans Rent?, It`s more of a "norm" I am informed?. I suspect "we" as a nation have been the exception in being motivated or persuaded, to own our own "castles". I remember when we bought our first, the mortgage alone was greater that the council house rent we had been paying. And that was before we paid all the things (then) included in the rent. Buildings insurance for one. Continuing to rent at that time would have left us substantially more to "dispose of" each week for sure. Don`t regret it now but back then?.

 

[2x2camper]

I was pointing out that you had said that the capital cost of the MH had to be considered in your 1st post but seemed to indicate that it didn't apply to a hotel

Where did i say that ?

 

[63720]

Many of you are referring to a time when going to university meant studying a hard subject which usually lead to gainful, lucrative, employment. Imo most degree subjects now are too soft and won't guarantee a well paid job in that sector after.

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[busby]

I disagree a bit and think working towards a higher education qualification is just as much work as working on something practical. There seems to be a bias by a lot on here to thinking practical training/work like apprenticeship is harder than brain work.

Physically harder,,Many people who had manual jobs in the past (Not many now) were worn out and damaged before retirement age..BUSBY.

 

[bigtwin]

I was pointing out that you had said that the capital cost of the MH had to be considered in your 1st post but seemed to indicate that it didn't apply to a hotel

Where did i say that ?

Here:

Except when comparing a motorhome to a hotel room you need to factor in the cost of the motorhome.

By implication, you are saying that this does not need to be considered for a hotel room.

I took the same meaning from your posts that ontheroadagain took.

Ian

 

[PeteH]

Many of you are referring to a time when going to university meant studying a hard subject which usually lead to gainful, lucrative, employment. Imo most degree subjects now are too soft and won't guarantee a well paid job in that sector after.

My Granddaughter wanted to study "Art and design", so she went to 6th form college, and was horrified to find that there where over 100 doing the same course!. Even she at the tender age of 16 could see that her "dream" was likely to end on the "cutting room floor" so to speak. Year 2 she swapped to her second choice and is now through Uni; in a full time post and should qualify as an Auditor in the very near future.
Edit; she still draws and paints, does photography, but for her own pleasure.

 

[Minxy]

No they don't get other benefits. .

If they save up every e ny, as they HAVE to do, in anticipation of the costs of a motorhome and its maintenance, tyres, etc., their small savings stops them getting council tax benefits et all. (Unless they knew all the scams before saving up... )

How big is your mattress Joy?

If you have savings you start to get the Savings Credit added to your pension, if you don't get this you need to ask for it.

No need to ask them. The workers should take control of their own destiny and make their own additional savings.

I would advise someone in their 20s to assume that they will be burnt out or had enough by the time they are 50/55. By the time they get there they will have 15 to 20 years to go before they receive their state pension. Therefore, they should start to take steps to bridge that 15 to 20 year gap now, not be thinking about it when they are in their early 50s and have already had enough.

Totally agree.

Wisdom and hindsight, but most people struggle to have the discipline to do what you are suggesting at the age of 20 my employer enrolled me in to a pension at that age most youngsters can’t see the future and can’t see the point. Most 20 odd year olds need the money to save for a rental deposit they can’t see the need for a pension. So for many and I suggest the majority nanny state needs to take control and just take the money for. State pension that will be needed some 46 years down the line.

Not all I know but a LOT of younger people like to have the latest clothes, gadgets, go out with mates often etc, we didn't when were were their age, perhaps their views need 'updating' so they are aware of the real world choices they need to make to get what they want.

I disagree a bit and think working towards a higher education qualification is just as much work as working on something practical. There seems to be a bias by a lot on here to thinking practical training/work like apprenticeship is harder than brain work.

Having worked at a University for most of my working life I can tell you that a LOT of them didn't put the effort in, only doing the bare minimum to get a qualification, hopefully this has changed now that they are paying for their courses but I suspect many still think, and treat it, as an 'easy' ride.

Ey upp..... when I was a lad I lived in shoe box on side of road......

When my elder twin brother & sister were born they 'lived' in the bottom drawer of a chest of drawers as there was no money for a cot, I was in a lined cardboard box for a while apparently!

 

[2x2camper]

Here:



By implication, you are saying that this does not need to be considered for a hotel room.

I took the same meaning from your posts that ontheroadagain took.

Ian

Onmanandhisdog compared a hotel room cost to the cost of a campsite.

You would assume that the hotel room cost has all the costs associated with the hotel room- why would you not.

However when he mentions the Caravan Club site he does not mention the cost of what he is going to sleep in, therefore he need to take that into account.

Its as simple as that.

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[Coolcats]

Sad, but in many ways true. However very large numbers of Europeans Rent?, It`s more of a "norm" I am informed?. I suspect "we" as a nation have been the exception in being motivated or persuaded, to own our own "castles". I remember when we bought our first, the mortgage alone was greater that the council house rent we had been paying. And that was before we paid all the things (then) included in the rent. Buildings insurance for one. Continuing to rent at that time would have left us substantially more to "dispose of" each week for sure. Don`t regret it now but back then?.

I have always felt that house ownership (Mortgage) was a form of state control.....but what do I know eh

 

[The Wino]

I have always felt that house ownership (Mortgage) was a form of state control.....but what do I know eh

Both our kids just had offers accepted on their first houses the same day recently just going through the process. It seems quite recent but at the same time ages ago that we bought our first!

 

[Coolcats]

Both our kids just had offers accepted on their first houses the same day recently just going through the process. It seems quite recent but at the same time ages ago that we bought our first!

Excellent news and well done them, just think in the future they may be MoHo owners too

 

[The Wino]

Excellent news and well done them, just think in the future they may be MoHo owners too

I think they will be one has rented a PVC (sounds like a botch conversation with no insulation) in Iceland its still not put him off!!!

 

[gus-lopez]

I think understanding compound interest though might well help some a avoid overstretching themselves and taking out loans at high rates phones on contracts etc

I think you could spend all you r life explaining & would still be struggling to explain it to at least 50% of the population.

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[Hirsch]

School, college, university all have too "laid back" attitude to the disciplines of "work".

Not generalising at all then?

 

[Hirsch]

Financial planning should be a school subject

Along with politics

 

[Coolcats]

Along with politics

And Family planning....how else are you going to fit everyone in to that MoHo

 

[MC 55 FUN]

But I do agree, if you are in a position to save for retirement do so but not everyone is able to and therefore if we want a civil society a decent state pension helps.

With the fairly recent introduction of the workplace pension scheme which brings benefits such as tax relief & employers contributions, both of which are literally free money, there's little reason for those in work / starting work not to have some kind of pension at retirement age, in addition to the admittedly meagre state pension.

 

[PeteH]

Not generalising at all then?

No.

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[bigtwin]

I think you could spend all you r life explaining & would still be struggling to explain it to at least 50% of the population.

In my post, I was, diplomatically, trying to avoid making that assertion but I do tend to agree with your sentiment.

Ian

 

[Coolcats]

With the fairly recent introduction of the workplace pension scheme which brings benefits such as tax relief & employers contributions, both of which are literally free money, there's little reason for those in work / starting work not to have some kind of pension at retirement age, in addition to the admittedly meagre state pension.

Interesting I hear this is something that can be declined by the employee for a few more £ and that is the young teachers as they need/want more cash now. Not saying it’s right but how it is.

 

[MC 55 FUN]

Interesting I hear this is something that can be declined by the employee for a few more £ and that is the young teachers as they need/want more cash now. Not saying it’s right but how it is.

There are a few t's & c's attached.

The employer cannot encourage or force you to opt out.

Workplace pensions

Workplace pensions and automatic enrolment - how you're affected, how pensions are protected, what happens if you move job or go on maternity leave and how to opt out

www.gov.uk

 

[scally]

Nobody likes paying but your enjoyment costs whether you like it or not. So pick you price range and live a little

 

[Coolcats]

There are a few t's & c's attached.

The employer cannot encourage or force you to opt out.

Workplace pensions

Workplace pensions and automatic enrolment - how you're affected, how pensions are protected, what happens if you move job or go on maternity leave and how to opt out

www.gov.uk

I wonder how the Million zero contract hours workers pensions will work out, and now most if not all companies have stopped final salary pensions I suspect this is a poor substitute particularly as we are about to see negative interest rates. But then again I am no pension adviser or financial wiz kid.

But we need to enjoy what we have and worked for I know I am certainly grateful for the opportunities I have had.

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