Second home owners reprimanded?

[gus-lopez]

Im not advocating drifting between 2 homes at will, but once you’ve decided to isolate yourself in your luxury Devon/Cornwall/Toxteth residence is it really an issue?

Further to this but in many areas 'incomers' even if they live there permanently & have done for years, are barely tolerated.It doesn't take much for war to break out.

The other side of the coin is that by moving to their second home permanently for the lockdown,they are relieving the already stretched NHS services in london

& ending up in an area without any.

I have seen a couple of posts here regarding council tax rates for second homes. We pay the standard 100% rate for ours. Have done for the 10 years we have owned it. It used be be a reduced rate-which we didn’t claim-some years back but that was scrapped. What is this double rate charge mentioned?

some councils charge 150% of the rateable value for second homes others double it.

So, unless other authorities have different rules, which I have not found, it is not the case that anyone pays double council tax on their second home.

Yes many do.

 

[Brains]

Two issues:

One:
The commercial council tax rebate on 'second homes' only comes into effect if the property is used for a minimum 105 nights letting per year,
(Minimum 420 nights over 4 financial years, nights in bad years, such as 2020, can be banked against good years)

It means the property is a business. Exactly the same as a hotel or B&B.
As a minimum they will be employing regular cleaning staff, regular laundry staff, probably a local management company, a gardener, and of course people on holiday go to the local pubs, restaurants and the bucket and spade shop.

The council tax is usually reduced as these types of properties do not use most council services, no bin collection, no use of the schools, the library, etc.

Second:
If people, who would normally live in a flat in London during the week are now locked down in their second home with a garden overlooking the sea, great. As long as they are locked down somewhere in one place and not moving between houses, I don't see that as a issue at all.

 

[Ivory55]

Só onçe place is sold to a 2nd home owner the local is excused as after that it’s another 2nd home owner. Strange rules in Cornwall.

 

[ginscot]

Local occupancy clauses are a way of stopping 2nd/holiday homes - not sure when or how they are applied.
Presumably the local authority are responsible for applying these. There are all sorts of arguments about the income that comes from tourism, but communities that turn into " ghost towns" for months on end is not good for anyone.

 

[Peppadog]

Só onçe place is sold to a 2nd home owner the local is excused as after that it’s another 2nd home owner. Strange rules in Cornwall.

I assume you meant to say excluded?
If a second home is sold, it can as easily be to a local or someone re-locating as to a second homer I would have thought?

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[Ivory55]

I assume you meant to say excluded?
If a second home is sold, it can as easily be to a local or someone re-locating as to a second homer I would have thought?

No I meant they was innocent of any profit making and it’s all down to the outsider. If they was never sold in the first place there would not be 2nd homes, but everyone is the same they like the money but not what comes with it.

 

[tonyidle]

Im not advocating drifting between 2 homes at will, but once you’ve decided to isolate yourself in your luxury Devon/Cornwall/Toxteth residence is it really an issue?

Not if you do it either prior to, as soon as, lockdown occurs. At any other time it's simply an excuse for a change of scenery.

 

[eddie]

They also out price the people who live in the towns and villages who then can not then afford to buy a property or live there because off it and have to move away to some were else cheaper losing village community as for bringing jobs to the town totally disagree I live Dartmouth in Devon they don't bring money to here don't pay council tax on their second homes either and split the community as well as they don't mix at all with any one wat brings money into this town is the people who come to visit come end off septenber all these second homes are empty and the town like a ghost town there also salcombe round corner all the locals couldnt afford to buy a house there and most ended up haveing to move else where and the few who still live there live in a deserted town after september as all the shops totally shut through the winter and it spelled the loss off a town community as many towns and villages in Devon and Cornwall have suffered badly because off second home owner properties, which is a fact so as said don't agree with that comment at all

Shame the greedy locals sold the houses in the first place.

No one forces a local to sell a house at London prices to Londoners, they could alway sell cheaply to a local

Blaming the buyer for prices on a two way contract is daft, which buyer would pay more than they have to? So it’s the seller that sets the price, and forces local buyers out of the market.

I don’t remember people complaining about resources being used when they are begging for the Tourist Pound at the end of a long Winter

There was nothing in the government’s advice to stipulate where you had to remain at home, and in fact the advice actually states that it’s OK to move house, and to travel if it is to protect your family

 

[wanderer]

I wonder why there is so many 2nd homes in Cornwall, someone must of sold them to them and made a lot of money.

I lived in a village where 90% of the houses were owned by the local lord/estate these were tenanted usually long term . The tenants started to complain that their children were having to leave as they couldn’t afford the rents or purchase so the lord sold a house to the married child of a long term tenant at a very affordable price , the couple sold within two years at full market value , is it any wonder the lord/estate did not sell any more.

 

[tonyidle]

Not a ‘bee in a bonnet’ but a serious social issue affecting many.
Visitors and 2nd home owners are two very different things.

The same arguments rage in the Lake District. Human nature causes the 'problem' - the elderly sell their home at the best price they can to fund retirement nearer to services. The home fetches market value and is bought by someone wanting a second home. Nothing wrong in any of that. Those observing then try to score political points by calling out the buyers as causing high house prices. The reality is that younger people wanting to buy a house anywhere in a rural setting are on a hiding to nowhere: in that same rural setting they'll never earn enough to put a deposit on any house anywhere so they move out to somewhere they can earn a decent living and eventually buy a house. Then probably return when they can afford rural living. It's all a nonsense & the only 'cure' for it is to build social housing. Try that anywhere desirable in a rural setting! And anyway social housing simply discourages ambition: people stay where they are on low wages.

I think the complainers are the same people who accuse supermarkets of destroying the High Street: supermarkets do nothing - it's simply that customers vote with their feet.

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[AXO66]

Not a ‘bee in a bonnet’ but a serious social issue affecting many.
Visitors and 2nd home owners are two very different things.

Yep, they are different issues.

The thing about second home owners is the ratio of second homes and those available for local families.

The number of people selling up in primarially London and south east and being able to easily outbid locals is a systemic problem.
look at St ives, lake district etc etc etc.

A few folks from away, are buying houses , knocking them down and rebuilding to modern standards. And have change in their pockets.

How do you define local if there is a move to legislate.?

rate payer, attended local school, parents born locally?
attended local school and moved away to work, now 15 years later moving back.
grandparents in local cemetery??
it’s a mindfield.

 

[AXO66]

Local residents attitude to 2nd home owners has always been problematic - I think there were incidents in the 1970/80's (?) in Wales when 2nd homes were set alight. I AM NOT SUGGESTING THIS SHOULD HAPPEN NOW!
Always worth remembering that when an "outsider" buys a 2nd home - the local seller benefits.

Yep, the good old sixties. And seventies.

not forgetting and instances where whole villages were drowned by reservoirs for English water.!!

Neither to be condoned at all, in anyway in 21st century UK

 

[eddie]

People don’t ‘choose’ to move to Wales do they?

 

[Captain Pants]

Shame the greedy locals sold the houses in the first place.

No one forces a local to sell a house at London prices to Londoners, they could alway sell cheaply to a local

Blaming the buyer for prices on a two way contract is daft, which buyer would pay more than they have to? So it’s the seller that sets the price, and forces local buyers out of the market.

I don’t remember people complaining about resources being used when they are begging for the Tourist Pound at the end of a long Winter

There was nothing in the government’s advice to stipulate where you had to remain at home, and in fact the advice actually states that it’s OK to move house, and to travel if it is to protect your family

Nothing whatsoever to do with greed, houses come on the market for all sorts of reason and those with the buying power get first picks rather than those who were born into that community, send their kids to local schools, support the local shops and provide genuine community support in difficult times like now. I don’t see Jeremy, his 4 children, 4 labradors and nanny from Islington contributing much beyond a few weeks wages for the local plumber! So it’s ok to protect your family if it endangers others simply because you’ve got more money and options than them?

 

[Minxy]

Nothing whatsoever to do with greed, houses come on the market for all sorts of reason and those with the buying power get first picks rather than those who were born into that community, send their kids to local schools, support the local shops and provide genuine community support in difficult times like now. I don’t see Jeremy, his 4 children, 4 labradors and nanny from Islington contributing much beyond a few weeks wages for the local plumber! So it’s ok to protect your family if it endangers others simply because you’ve got more money and options than them?

Plus the council tax etc that they pay regardless of whether they use the property which goes to support the community ... if the owner only stays there for a total of 2 months a year the other 10 months worth of CT don't really benefit him/her as he/she isn't taking anything from the community in return so who's the mug then?

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[Captain Pants]

Local occupancy clauses are a way of stopping 2nd/holiday homes

A number of towns in Cornwall have held a referendum on whether to place occupancy restrictions on planning for new homes in the Neighbourhood Development Plan. In all cases that has received overwhelming support, so that tells you what locals think about the situation. Subsequently there’s been a load of nonsense talked about that backfiring on locals because 2nd home owners are buying up current housing stock squeezing them out of the market. There may be a bit of truth in that, but the bigger reality is that the developers who deploy fancy solicitors and ‘contacts’ to overcome local planning objections are no longer able to cover areas of outstanding natural beauty with concrete and houses occupied for a couple of weeks a year. They have gone elsewhere and good riddance! In its place we’re likely to see more modest new homes being built.

 

[Peppadog]

People have always bought property, additional to their home, because its always been a good investment. If that is used as a second home or as a means of income. So be it.
If the market drops by 20% soon (likely in my view) some that is mortgaged will probably come on the open market. Anyone who can, will buy. Thats market forces.
The government have changed a lot of rules to make it unattractive to borrow for a buy to let in recent years. My business partner has three flats in Portishead marina. All now paid off as the mortgage tax relief has gone. He can’t fund any more as there would be no return on them other than the asset value growth or loss. Maybe young locals will use the government help to buy schemes and take homes back from the investors. We will see. It was never easy to get on the housing ladder. But I suspect it will be easier for some after the recession thats probably coming bites.

 

[hilldweller]

Someone round the corner had obviously called the Police about.......

That's exactly how Sadham Hussein controlled his people. But his Police weren't so polite.

What next WMD hidden in the back garden of Buck House ?

 

[Sus3v]

People don’t ‘choose’ to move to Wales do they?

Well when there was a bridge fee, it was to enter Wales. people wouldn’t pay to enter England would they
?

 

[eddie]

Nothing whatsoever to do with greed, houses come on the market for all sorts of reason and those with the buying power get first picks rather than those who were born into that community, send their kids to local schools, support the local shops and provide genuine community support in difficult times like now. I don’t see Jeremy, his 4 children, 4 labradors and nanny from Islington contributing much beyond a few weeks wages for the local plumber! So it’s ok to protect your family if it endangers others simply because you’ve got more money and options than them?

Local selling to non locals creates the problem

its the sellers greed that causes price rises.

But there again, everyone was a newcomer once

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[Ivory55]

The local person sold to the most money, they could always take a lower offer. Instead of moaning about the 2nd homes ask what the council is doing with all the extra tax. They are not using schools, or care homes, etc . With the extra money they could improve buses may be for local people to get to work etc. May be building some small buisness estates in the villages or may be the locals would not want lorries running through their villages.

 

[Shaders]

Shame the greedy locals sold the houses in the first place.

No one forces a local to sell a house at London prices to Londoners, they could alway sell cheaply to a local

Blaming the buyer for prices on a two way contract is daft, which buyer would pay more than they have to? So it’s the seller that sets the price, and forces local buyers out of the market.

I don’t remember people complaining about resources being used when they are begging for the Tourist Pound at the end of a long Winter

There was nothing in the government’s advice to stipulate where you had to remain at home, and in fact the advice actually states that it’s OK to move house, and to travel if it is to protect your family

Far from the greedy home owners who sold them tho majority off people lived in theses hoses in the village till they died and then house sold not because the majority off people were greedy and wanted money which again is totally wrong and is now why many councils in devon and corwall put conditions on houses being sold or built now and part off that is not for second homes try living some were like this were the local community been decimates because off it

 

[hilldweller]

If that means a "Police State" for a period of time, so be it.

First you have to have Police.

 

[eddie]

It is an inalienable fact that local people selling houses dictates who can buy

 

[Red Dragon]

I dont have a problem with second home owners. I have a problem with people placing other people in jeopardy basically because they cannot think of anyone other than themselves.
I also have a problem with those types of people thinking they are above the law.

Lockdown is lockdown, and regardless of a person's stature it should be adhered to in the interest if everyones health and safety but these people have shown a total disregard for everything and are consumed by their own self importance and driven by self interest.

When its spouted on the tv and radio that we should all be proud of how we are all joining together in this fight then those people who have disregarded all of that should hold their heads in shame.

It's wrong and they should be held to account for their unlawful conduct, second home owners or not!

Sadly lockdown is not lockdown, and just some time spent on the internet would prove the point, all the major airports and ferry terminals remained open and not for some weeks after lockdown was this addressed equally these people have and are allowed to enter the Country without any testing so you locked the doors but left the windows open all because the powers that be wanted to gain herd immunity, then panicked and changed tack following the guidance of a scientist whose modelling in the past has seen some major errors oh!! well!!

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[gus-lopez]

and in fact the advice actually states that it’s OK to move house,

& as I said previously it is extremley badly written.It was meant to read as in sell/buy move house not decamp between houses. No one would write that in as 99% of the population don't have 'another house'

 

[Captain Pants]

deleted

 

[Captain Pants]

The local person sold to the most money, they could always take a lower offer. Instead of moaning about the 2nd homes ask what the council is doing with all the extra tax. They are not using schools, or care homes, etc . With the extra money they could improve buses may be for local people to get to work etc. May be building some small buisness estates in the villages or may be the locals would not want lorries running through their villages.

You keep banging on about this but Council Tax revenues are an inconsequential side issue. We’re talking about the viability and infrastructure of local communities, A few quid from 2nd home owners matters diddly squat. It’s probably not enough to keep a toilet block open in a small village!

 

[Ivory55]

You’re just like everyone today, you’re right and anybody who doesn’t agree with you is wrong. May be it’s best if everyone in Cornwall stays there and never leaves and nobody goes in as it seems they want the money but not what goes with it . Problem sorted.
That’s for ever mind you.

 

[7735]

i am not so sure that telling them to go home in 7 days will actually achieve anything? they have already travelled, isnt making another journey is adding to the risk?

i dont know the answer to stop people travelling but perhaps sending them back again in 7 days doesnt appear to be it.

Much better to tell them that now they are there they have to stay until the restrictions are lifted.

spongy

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