Second home owners reprimanded?

[gus-lopez]

Mrs Smith may decide the journey is essential to her, and her families health. There is no definition as to what is/not essential. Most of the 2nd home whingers are the jealous twitching curtain types that normally make a mountain out of every molehill. It would be interesting if Mrs Smith decided she wasn’t moving, as there is no provision whatsoever in the legislation to evict her.

You are mixing up 2 pieces of legislation.
Mrs Smith might be doing it for the welfare of her family but that is why travel to a second/3rd home is banned.They are either frightened,in a plague hot spot ,just wish to sit it out somewhere pleasanter. If they could be tested and confirmed as disease free then no probs. They can't so they stay at home. Just the same as people abroad should never have been repatriated.
Essential journey is nothing to do with the above.

Leave my Rock out of this

The legislation says that a person must have a reasonable excuse to leave “The place they are living”, it does not say that you can’t live in your second home.

It even says you can move home

Maybe it would help if you read the legislation, instead of inventing your own

View attachment 377217

Yes,badly written. It means sell/buy house not travel between.

once you’ve decided to isolate yourself in your luxury Devon/Cornwall/Toxteth residence is it really an issue?

Yes ,you aren't wanted as no one can be sure you are not carrying plague.

 

[Gellyneck]

As we hit, nigh on, 1000 deaths a day in the UK alone perhaps we should implement the more Draconian measures in place elsewhere. If individuals can't understand what this virus is capable of, how it spreads and the risks their actions potentially can have on the human race then we must face the consequences.
What is more important for humanity at large, legislation or common sense?
If that means a "Police State" for a period of time, so be it.
Surely, the most important part of the message is SAVE LIVES.

 

[Ivory55]

Lockdown will end sooner than you think. Money will decide, just like it does in everything else.

 

[Solwaybuggier]

Oooooo ... do tell ... I like a good conspiracy!

I think someone must have been listening to David Icke!

 

[Paulypaul]

I dont like a grass either and I'm a great believer in keeping your head down and live and let live. But, when you're in a community with a largely elderly demographic, who are vulnerable at an unprecedented time like this, I just think its fundamentally wrong for someone to turn up at their "non primary" residence after leaving the highest infection rates region, London, during lockdown, simply cause they want to carry on life in the country as if nothings going on.

It's easy to say that people who care about others and are complying with the guidelines, rules or legislation, whichever you want to classify them as, are driven by jealousy, but I think that's just a weak arguement to try and justify the flagrant disregard of the laws/guidelines that these selfish people have.

The people in the big house in our village are out and about in one of their cars (Range Rover) everyday, even going out with their Ifor William's tipping trailer full of garden cuttings. They have visitors coming and going too, so how can that even slightly be described as them adhering to lockdown and trying to do the right thing? I dont know about the others in the village so I can't comment. I would love to phone the old bill about these two maggots next door but i know that they wouldn't do anything so what's the point? They clearly had an opportunity when they visited the others round the corner.

What gets me is that you hear on the tele the ministers of this and that, and the queen, saying how proud we should be all pulling together and we'll meet again, blah,blah, blah, and I bet those maggots in the big house are saying "yah, we're doing our bit too" with a mouth full of plums, the irony?

The point is, rich or poor and regardless of ethnicity, if you live in this country at this moment in time, I think you have a duty of care to try and do your bit to get this situation over and done with asap, and in the process, protect yourself but also think of others.

It's no secret I'm not a fan of the old bill, in any shape or form and I think Simon Bailey is full of it. I feel that the way they dealt with their visit to this village just shows how toothless they are. Yet they've been over in Cromer giving it large with groups of teenagers not adhering to the guidelines, but in reality, what's the difference, teenagers and rich second home owners, they're both guilty of non compliance and both are showing no regard or respect for others and both breaking laws.

That's why these celebs and rich folk get away with murder, and it may not just be metaphoric, it could actually result in that if they have the virus and pass it on to an elderly resident.

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[Peppadog]

We have a second home on the south coast. We pay standard council tax. As is normal. We normally spend about a third of our time living there. It’s not rented out. We have not been to it since the end of January as we went off to Spain in the ‘van in mid February. We got home just before our lockdown started and put ourselves in isolation in case we were importing the virus. A neighbour with a key has been in to check all is ok and cut the grass etc.
It is less than 70 miles from us but there is no need or requirement to go. This must be possible and true for everybody going to their second home. It is plain selfishness and disregard of others.

 

[scally]

I dont like a grass either and I'm a great believer in keeping your head down and live and let live. But, when you're in a community with a largely elderly demographic, who are vulnerable at an unprecedented time like this, I just think its fundamentally wrong for someone to turn up at their "non primary" residence after leaving the highest infection rates region, London, during lockdown, simply cause they want to carry on life in the country as if nothings going on.

It's easy to say that people who care about others and are complying with the guidelines, rules or legislation, whichever you want to classify them as, are driven by jealousy, but I think that's just a weak arguement to try and justify the flagrant disregard of the laws/guidelines that these selfish people have.

The people in the big house in our village are out and about in one of their cars (Range Rover) everyday, even going out with their Ifor William's tipping trailer full of garden cuttings. They have visitors coming and going too, so how can that even slightly be described as them adhering to lockdown and trying to do the right thing? I dont know about the others in the village so I can't comment. I would love to phone the old bill about these two maggots next door but i know that they wouldn't do anything so what's the point? They clearly had an opportunity when they visited the others round the corner.

What gets me is that you hear on the tele the ministers of this and that, and the queen, saying how proud we should be all pulling together and we'll meet again, blah,blah, blah, and I bet those maggots in the big house are saying "yah, we're doing our bit too" with a mouth full of plums, the irony?

The point is, rich or poor and regardless of ethnicity, if you live in this country at this moment in time, I think you have a duty of care to try and do your bit to get this situation over and done with asap, and in the process, protect yourself but also think of others.

It's no secret I'm not a fan of the old bill, in any shape or form and I think Simon Bailey is full of it. I feel that the way they dealt with their visit to this village just shows how toothless they are. Yet they've been over in Cromer giving it large with groups of teenagers not adhering to the guidelines, but in reality, what's the difference, teenagers and rich second home owners, they're both guilty of non compliance and both are showing no regard or respect for others and both breaking laws.

That's why these celebs and rich folk get away with murder, and it may not just be metaphoric, it could actually result in that if they have the virus and pass it on to an elderly resident.

The other side of the coin is that by moving to their second home permanently for the lockdown,they are relieving the already stretched NHS services in london

 

[Paulypaul]

We have a second home on the south coast. We pay standard council tax. As is normal. We normally spend about a third of our time living there. It’s not rented out. We have not been to it since the end of January as we went off to Spain in the ‘van in mid February. We got home just before our lockdown started and put ourselves in isolation in case we were importing the virus. A neighbour with a key has been in to check all is ok and cut the grass etc.
It is less than 70 miles from us but there is no need or requirement to go. This must be possible and true for everybody going to their second home. It is plain selfishness and disregard of others.

But you are clearly decent people with integrity, respect and consideration...well played!

 

[Paulypaul]

The other side of the coin is that by moving to their second home permanently for the lockdown,they are relieving the already stretched NHS services in london

Or placing the rural or smaller regional resources under greater pressure? I wonder if pc plod would see it that way if we decided to jump in the van and toodle off to somewhere remote and isolated and said it was to alleviate the over stretched resources at home?

 

[Jim]

What I do get livid with is the way they then go back to their main residences during the week.
Certainly not classed as necessary travel.

Doesn't matter if someone owns ten houses, as long as once lockdown started, they stayed put. If I lived on a village on the south coast and knew someone was commuting from Covid infested London to my village for the weekend I would certainly get all Nazi about it.

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[Captain Pants]

They also out price the people who live in the towns and villages who then can not then afford to buy a property or live there because off it and have to move away to some were else cheaper losing village community as for bringing jobs to the town totally disagree I live Dartmouth in Devon they don't bring money to here don't pay council tax on their second homes either and split the community as well as they don't mix at all with any one wat brings money into this town is the people who come to visit come end off septenber all these second homes are empty and the town like a ghost town there also salcombe round corner all the locals couldnt afford to buy a house there and most ended up haveing to move else where and the few who still live there live in a deserted town after september as all the shops totally shut through the winter and it spelled the loss off a town community as many towns and villages in Devon and Cornwall have suffered badly because off second home owner properties, which is a fact so as said don't agree with that comment at all

Absolutely right, this notion that we should all be grateful for the yuppie dollar is ridiculous. The disadvantages far outweigh benefits to a few plumbers & builders. Labels like ‘curtain twitchers’ are indicative of the arrogant dismissive attitude of some who’d rather focus on legal technicalities rather than the spirit which is crystal clear to anybody who’s paying attention.

 

[Peppadog]

Doesn't matter if someone owns ten houses, as long as once lockdown started, they stayed put...

Yep. Its a simple as that.

 

[Offagain]

Cornwall Council has a hot line to phone to report AirB&B, Holiday lets, and Second Homers.

Pembrokeshire has one of those too.

south Pembrokeshire’s Border!
thursday, over 1000 cars stopped.
View attachment 377170

(But still 100 of back lanes, some not yet on maps!! )

From what I have read on our local Facebook page quite a few have still managed to avoid the road blocks by arriving at night. Although I totally agree that they should remain their primary residence and not travel here, the vitriol being written by some contributors has been worrying and in some cases verging on incitement to violence or property damage. Yesterday I spoke to some very good friends who live in London but have a second home in Tenby. They obviously have no intention of coming here until the restrictions have been lifted but told me me they are starting to feel unwelcome because of the loudly expressed views of a few in the town. They have owned their property for over 30yrs and pay double council tax for that privilege as they don’t let it out to holidaymakers.
Re those not paying council tax because they have designated their second home as a business, they will have had to provide proof that they have let it out for a certain number of weeks a year in the recent past (?3yrs) and that it is currently also available for that amount of time (that’s the case in Pembrokeshire anyway). Apart from this year, there will have been a financial benefit for the local area from the holidaymakers who rent the property from them. So the assertion by Shaders that they “don’t bring money to here” is unlikely to be accurate. Yes some may receive a government handout, but for most that will in no way cover the loss of income incurred by the travel ban.
I speak from experience as I own a usually busy holiday let in Tenby and have cancelled all bookings until 6 June. Those with later bookings have been warned that they will also be cancelled if travel restrictions are still in place.

 

[2657]

Lockdown will end sooner than you think. Money will decide, just like it does in everything else.

The lockdown cannot go on forever regardless of the Covid 19 situation, a balance will have to be made on the threat to life caused by a complete financial meltdown and the threat from the virus.

I do not envy the people that may have to make that decision, life and death decisions are made by some on a daily basis but not on the possible scale of this.

 

[Solwaybuggier]

Given that Wales Police (not sure which force, my wife has seen a police FB post) have investigated an instance where second home owners sent their luggage in advance by courier so that if they were stopped by police there was no giveaway luggage - unlike the superbrains who Cumbria police stopped on Thursday coming into the lakes with kayaks on the roof(!) - I think it's hardly surprising people are getting irate. I'm surprised they're not more irate - and I think the OP's post at 9.20 today really sums it up well. I certainly thought I'd ever be wanting there to be more powers for the police to stop & search cars, and to be annoyed by the laissez-faire approach shown by Priti (Smirking From Home) Patel!

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[Minxy]

Leave my Rock out of this

The legislation says that a person must have a reasonable excuse to leave “The place they are living”, it does not say that you can’t live in your second home.

It even says you can move home

Maybe it would help if you read the legislation, instead of inventing your own

I suggest you read the legislation in context as to why it is in place and ALL the advice/instructions being given by the govt and not just cherry pick stuff to try to make a point (which you haven't managed to do).

Don't get crushed by that rock will you .. .. the emergency services have enough to do without trying to retrieve you from under it.

 

[Minxy]

Quite a few of them register the property as a business because it’s let commercially and pay no Council Tax at all. Instead they claim business rate tax relief! This year quite a few of them are likely to attract Government grants as part of the business support measures.

Only if they qualify as a business, it's not a free for all ... if they can't prove it was a viable holiday home and meet the strict criteria the won't qualify at all.

I live Dartmouth in Devon they don't bring money to here don't pay council tax on their second homes

They most certainly WILL be paying council tax, water rates etc, on their second homes, at 100% or more of the normal rate. If the second homes are on a 'site' instead of rates they will pay hefty charges to the site each month which, in turn, pay the business rates, so one way or another they DO bring in money to support the services for the area.

 

[Minxy]

We are being held in a place that officialdom KNOWS where we should be for another reason.

Oooooo ... do tell ... I like a good conspiracy!

I think someone must have been listening to David Icke!

Who, me or Gwaygway? I just want to know what he means by his comment above.

 

[Captain Pants]

What if I decided to call my second home, my primary residence, then what?

That would place you firmly in the same loathsome group that came to the fore during the MPs expenses scandal. Just bending the rules for your own selfish interests!

 

[AXO66]

Pembrokeshire has one of those too.


From what I have read on our local Facebook page quite a few have still managed to avoid the road blocks by arriving at night. Although I totally agree that they should remain their primary residence and not travel here, the vitriol being written by some contributors has been worrying and in some cases verging on incitement to violence or property damage. Yesterday I spoke to some very good friends who live in London but have a second home in Tenby. They obviously have no intention of coming here until the restrictions have been lifted but told me me they are starting to feel unwelcome because of the loudly expressed views of a few in the town. They have owned their property for over 30yrs and pay double council tax for that privilege as they don’t let it out to holidaymakers.
Re those not paying council tax because they have designated their second home as a business, they will have had to provide proof that they have let it out for a certain number of weeks a year in the recent past (?3yrs) and that it is currently also available for that amount of time (that’s the case in Pembrokeshire anyway). Apart from this year, there will have been a financial benefit for the local area from the holidaymakers who rent the property from them. So the assertion by Shaders that they “don’t bring money to here” is unlikely to be accurate. Yes some may receive a government handout, but for most that will in no way cover the loss of income incurred by the travel ban.
I speak from experience as I own a usually busy holiday let in Tenby and have cancelled all bookings until 6 June. Those with later bookings have been warned that they will also be cancelled if travel restrictions are still in place.

There’s always a few that Get a bee under their bonnet

Maybe partially fuelled by the inability of locals being able to afford a home. With far more Holiday homes and lets in the Pembs area. Similar situation to Devon and Cornwall and many other “nice “ places.

Tenby (and Pembrokeshire ) of course relies on the tourists and secound home owners, and always has done.

One figure quoted is Tourism is worth £ 580million a year to Pembs economy.
that figure It’s a lot of money for a county with a populatuon of under 130,000.

Another way of looking at the local impact is Tenby’s population is around 5000 folks that swells to over 80000 during the summer months. Just witness the number of cafes pubs etc in and around Tenby, Saundersfoot and Narberth.
Shed loads of money are spent in Pembrokeshire by visitors.

There have been a couple of folk planning to open businesses in time for now, Easter; their plans are in tatters now.

If the restrictions continue through the summer months, its going to be hard for many and probably catastrophic for a few.

No wonder there are reports of tensions in the Cabinet about the timings and route out of the situation.

(still the locals have the beaches to themselves, but no sailing! )

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[Ivory55]

I wonder why there is so many 2nd homes in Cornwall, someone must of sold them to them and made a lot of money.

 

[Captain Pants]

duplicate

 

[Captain Pants]

There’s always a few that Get a bee under their bonnet

Maybe partially fuelled by the inability of locals being able to afford a home. With far more Holiday homes and lets in the Pembs area. Similar situation to Devon and Cornwall and many other “nice “ places.

Tenby (and Pembrokeshire ) of course relies on the tourists and secound home owners, and always has done.

One figure quoted is Tourism is worth £ 580million a year to Pembs economy.
that figure It’s a lot of money for a county with a populatuon of under 130,000.

Another way of looking at the local impact is Tenby’s population is around 5000 folks that swells to over 80000 during the summer months. Just witness the number of cafes pubs etc in and around Tenby, Saundersfoot and Narberth.
Shed loads of money are spent in Pembrokeshire by visitors.

There have been a couple of folk planning to open businesses in time for now, Easter; their plans are in tatters now.

If the restrictions continue through the summer months, its going to be hard for many and probably catastrophic for a few.

No wonder there are reports of tensions in the Cabinet about the timings and route out of the situation.

(still the locals have the beaches to themselves, but no sailing! )

Not a ‘bee in a bonnet’ but a serious social issue affecting many.
Visitors and 2nd home owners are two very different things.

 

[Solwaybuggier]

Who, me or Gwaygway? I just want to know what he means by his comment above.

Definitely GwayGway, Mel - sorry if it wasn’t clear.

 

[ginscot]

Local residents attitude to 2nd home owners has always been problematic - I think there were incidents in the 1970/80's (?) in Wales when 2nd homes were set alight. I AM NOT SUGGESTING THIS SHOULD HAPPEN NOW!
Always worth remembering that when an "outsider" buys a 2nd home - the local seller benefits.

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[Vipar]

I might move to my second home the door on the left???

I am so lucky I can’t afford a second home apart from my mobile one.

Anyway why would I want to with what I have got????

 

[Vipar]

Sorry about the double picture

 

[Peppadog]

I have seen a couple of posts here regarding council tax rates for second homes. We pay the standard 100% rate for ours. Have done for the 10 years we have owned it. It used be be a reduced rate-which we didn’t claim-some years back but that was scrapped. What is this double rate charge mentioned?

 

[Captain Pants]

Local residents attitude to 2nd home owners has always been problematic - I think there were incidents in the 1970/80's (?) in Wales when 2nd homes were set alight. I AM NOT SUGGESTING THIS SHOULD HAPPEN NOW!
Always worth remembering that when an "outsider" buys a 2nd home - the local seller benefits.

Not necessarily, many change hands in a market where inflated prices mean 2nd home owner is only selling to 2nd home. It’s a self perpetuating cycle.

I remember the situation in Wales. The Coal Board were running a campaign at the time “Come Home to a Real Fire”. It was amended to include “buy a holiday home in Wales”.

 

[Peppadog]

I have just looked it up on Dorset council website. There is provision for additional charges up to 200% of the standard rate for unoccupied, unfurnished properties. Depending how long they have been left empty. A used and furnished home, as ours is, pays the standard full, banded rate council tax.
So, unless other authorities have different rules, which I have not found, it is not the case that anyone pays double council tax on their second home.

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