Schengen Fine

[TheMachMan]

When we say “You” we mean those 54% who did vote to leave the EU and grumble because they now only get 90 days. Personally I voted to remain.
As for Brits spending more than anyone else in Spain, that is not my experience, but would love to see proof that was the case, not just a throw away guess.
I do however accept the law of 90 days. A law of the EU for those non members.

Was 52%, not that it makes any difference.

 

[royandsharont]

How much extra, on average for folk spend when they are there for more than 90 days... It could be a few cents per week to be more than other Europeans.

I'm guessing that it still isn't enough for Spain to attempt to change the rules for UK passport holders.

I can’t remember the figures now, as you suggest it was not lots more, but it was much greater than a few cents.

My understanding is Spain cannot change anything with regards to the Schengen rules as they apply to all non EU/Schengen members re staying.

But I think they can change their own visa rules like their current plans for visa entries, just like France have and I guess they all do, but this is not the Schengen 90/180 rules

 

[Yorick]

We don't want you British riff raff over here. Bugger off somewhere else

 

[busby]

If Spring is March and April and Autumn is September and October, then the 90 day rule isn't a problem.
From September 1st every day from March 6th drops off the end (or is it the beginning?)

I'll be close this year with 74 days presently planned for various forms of transport - but I could always use the Canadian passport instead for one or two trips

My preference used to be may June and early July and then out again 1st Sept for 2 or 3 months..Have to go march now and go home much earlier

How much extra, on average for folk spend when they are there for more than 90 days... It could be a few cents per week to be more than other Europeans.

I'm guessing that it still isn't enough for Spain to attempt to change the rules for UK passport holders.

Maybe not but reading Spanish Newspapers there are plenty of articles that disagree with your view..,,We will wait and see but is it a coincidence that since Br...t different types of Visa schemes are being touted by many EU member states.Coincidence or what,,,BUSBY.

 

[MattR]

My preference used to be may June and early July and then out again 1st Sept for 2 or 3 months..Have to go march now and go home much earlier

Maybe not but reading Spanish Newspapers there are plenty of articles that disagree with your view..,,We will wait and see but is it a coincidence that since Br...t different types of Visa schemes are being touted by many EU member states.Coincidence or what,,,BUSBY.

I'd be pleased if they were introduced as the restriction has screwed up our plans but I'm not holding my breath.

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[bobandjanie]

Don't they? You think the UK is intelligent and organised enough to chase up foreign drivers over non payment of speeding ticketss. I don't. I don't imagine many pay for the Dartford crossing either.

Yes there are Spanish people received fines from the UK, we had a account for the dartford crossing but they closed it because we only used it twice a year, many thanks to our dear friend Bryan BwB he sorted that, many like us that chose to live in Spain have had our UK bank account closed because we no longer live there, even though we have banked with them 50 odd years.

We have trouble with vehicle insurance, because we have a Spanish driving licence , even though I passed hgv1 my car and motorcycle tests in the UK and have had insurance with various companies for all these classes of vehicles over the years.
I could go on about how hard done by we expats are treated, but like the 90 day rule that still affects us, we just take it on the chin it is what it is so just enjoy what we have. Bob.

 

[VXman]

Yes there are Spanish people received fines from the UK, we had a account for the dartford crossing but they closed it because we only used it twice a year, many thanks to our dear friend Bryan BwB he sorted that, many like us that chose to live in Spain have had our UK bank account closed because we no longer live there, even though we have banked with them 50 odd years.

We have trouble with vehicle insurance, because we have a Spanish driving licence , even though I passed hgv1 my car and motorcycle tests in the UK and have had insurance with various companies for all these classes of vehicles over the years.
I could go on about how hard done by we expats are treated, but like the 90 day rule that still affects us, we just take it on the chin it is what it is so just enjoy what we have. Bob.

You have mentioned a whole load of unrelated issues there.

I was an expat for three years, living in Hong Kong. There are banks that allow you to have UK accounts in foreign countries. I had several. Just changed my address from UK to HK. I still have a HK account my UK address too.

I am aware it is difficult getting UK insurance if you live abroad. Probably good reasons for that.

BUT my point was about fining foreign plated cars. If you drive a foreign number plated car. Does the DVLA have the ability to access the drivers address in Lithuania for example? I doubt it. Same with speeding cameras. And even if they did and sent a fine how would they ensure the person paid it. They're not going to take the person to court and can't endorse their licence.

That's why the French have always gone down the route of real policemen in motorbikes and cars who stop speeders, demand a on the spot cash fine or confiscate the car.

 

[bobandjanie]

I am referring to foreign plated vehicles, ours is Spanish, no I don't think you or us would get points on the licence, but if you had a serious accident or caused one I would think you would be arrested whatever country your in.
I will add that our bank account in Spain is linked to your id card driving licence passport, and they can and do put an Embargo on it.
British residents living in the UK have no problem buying / owning and insuring ( your insuring the vehicle so anyone can drive it )and driving it with your UK licence as a tourist in Spain, the same applies to them having a bank account in Spain.
That doesn't happen for us here in Spain, it wasn't like that when the UK was in the European Union.

Hong Kong have a different relationship with the UK. Bob.

 

[Coolcats]

If we are not important to Spanish and Greek authorities why are coastal tourist areas asking for 90/180 rule to be slashed,,why are countries like Portugal Spain etc offering Working Nomad Visas? BUSBY.

Tourism is big business for most countries we need tourists as much as any other country. This country is also offering work visas in addition to study visas enabling tens of thousands of foreign students helping out or higher education campuses so let’s not think any particular country needs these industries more than another.
We all need them.

 

[gus-lopez]

Probably good reasons for that.

Name me one?

Does the DVLA have the ability to access the drivers address in Lithuania for example? I doubt it.

If they don't it is because they are too idle to do it.

Same with speeding cameras.

As above the Uk wants the ACTUAL driver the eu wants the registered keeper.

And even if they did and sent a fine how would they ensure the person paid it.

Transport for London, Dart crossing & any company that uses EPC Plc for registration/ parking enforcement has no trouble tracking down, even illegally, any foreign drivers they can & can enforce payment EU wide using debt collecters? So why is it so hard for DVLA?

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[VXman]

Name me one?

If they don't it is because they are too idle to do it.

As above the Uk wants the ACTUAL driver the eu wants the registered keeper.

Transport for London, Dart crossing & any company that uses EPC Plc for registration/ parking enforcement has no trouble tracking down, even illegally, any foreign drivers they can & can enforce payment EU wide using debt collecters? So why is it so hard for DVLA?

Name me one? - Insurance companies probably don't like the lack of access to a persons history in regards to previous insurance. They don't like the taking on the risk of someone with a foreign licence for the same reason. I don't know - there could be loads of reasons - you need to ask them.

I've no idea if it is possible for DVLA to trace drivers in Lithuania but my point is, and I agree with you, the DVLA won't and cannot be bothered to even if they could. TBH the police are not really bothered either. It is perfectly easy to drive around the UK without insurance/mot/tax if you are reasonably low key, drive sensibly, don't speed etc etc. There are so few police out there that they can only concentrate on obvious out and out dangerous driving and automated speed cameras.

As for TfL, Dart, parking enforcement tracing foreign cars I am not aware whether they can/do but would be extremely surprised if they do as we in the UK don't seem to have the resources to run our own police, NHS, etc, etc

Also, has our access to data from other EU countries not changed since leaving?

 

[bobandjanie]

VXman I don't know if you can read this example. Bob

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid037QAjf6U1zEvaSykFgqMSfsXE6MPWpo4ThGoGhgRG2fMK2PYe7rYsEABx4t4igzeal&id=100000691311920

Dutch haulage sector to take joint action over mounting CAZ fines in the UK

As Dutch road transport website TTM.NL reports, hauliers from the Netherlands are currently receiving a large amount of fines for not registering vehicles for t...

trans.info

 

[gus-lopez]

As for TfL, Dart, parking enforcement tracing foreign cars I am not aware whether they can/do but would be extremely surprised if they do as we in the UK don't seem to have the resources to run our own police, NHS, etc, etc

As someone who was attempted to be illegally , fraudulently & criminally scammed of money by the company ,EPC Plc, that I posted in my link I can assure you that companies like them that were before brexit EU wide, & are still & have access to the data whether legally now held or not & have no compunction using it even when it contravenes the gdpr & data protection act when they shift the info betwen companies they work on behalf of. Even though I had never registered with them they , as TFL's registration company illegally used data obtained from that system to attempt to illegally enforce a fine using criminal & fraudulent methods on behalf of a completely different company operating a motorway services area.
**If you look in that link Bob posted above you will see that it is the same scum company involved in that article.
Dart crossing has a French management company. My friends wife received a french speeding fine for a car " as the registered keeper" ?
She wasn't but did have the car registered on her dart account. A few enquiries & questions soon revealed who the source was .

Also, has our access to data from other EU countries not changed since leaving?

as above , companies that traced people europe wide before brexit still hold the information, whether it is now legally held or not.

 

[royandsharont]

Not 100% certain of the facts now, but disclosure by DVLA of personal driver details are always subject to the Data Protection Act and for what purposes and to who they can legally disclose.

I seem to recall they couldn’t disclose to Foreign countries for the purpose of issuing tickets/fines for certain things. It may well be they cannot disclose for parking or speeding fines, especially if tge offences are not considered to be ‘crimes’ within the legal definition.

This was then successfully challenged by the EU, whilst we were members, and I think we were given something like 2 years to comply.

Then we left shortly after so not sure how that left us but I suspect we don’t, or possibly can’t, disclose anymore as it is not permitted within their rules of retention of personal data and disclosure of it.

As I said I am unsure of where we stand now but this explanation of the general rules may help some understand it’s not as easy as you may think to get access to information.

E.G. schools as an example may have in their disclosure registration rules they can disclose personal information to the Police for the prevention and detection of crime. But they could not just disclose things simply because the Police asked them too, or for a different unauthorised purpose.

 

[gerry mcg]

As for TfL, Dart, parking enforcement tracing foreign cars I am not aware whether they can/do but would be extremely surprised if they do as we in the UK don't seem to have the resources to run our own police, NHS, etc, etc

Also, has our access to data from other EU countries not changed since leaving?

My french brother in law just received a fine in the post in for his French registered car at his French home address for a TFL LEZ fine.
The infringement took place a year ago and the ticket just dropped on the door mat 2 weeks ago

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[Coolcats]

Personally I feel if I get caught speeding and have a fine in any country I would just pay it.

Who DVLA shares data with​

Information on the various products DVLA provides, for what purpose the information can be used and who we share it with.

There are also forms that can be completed for information requests.

I had a Door mirror stolen (hit with force and removed from the vehicle) as I was in a queue by a foreign truck. This was in Essex, I could see the name of the company but not the reg number. The insurance company tracked the truck driver down in Germany and the feed back was they had 100% recovery of costs and the driver fined.

This article is from 2019 and is with regard to a agreement the UK signed up to in 2017


More than 250,000 UK motorists are being pursued by French authorities over alleged driving offences committed this summer.

In 2017, the UK joined 18 other European Member States in agreeing to share details of motorists accused of breaking the law abroad.

If your car is snapped by a speed camera in Germany, for example, the German police can now contact the DVLA in the UK and request the name and address of the registered keeper.


A freedom of information investigation carried out by breathalyser manufacturer AlcoSense has discovered that the French police have requested the details for 246,138 UK vehicles over five months between February and June this year.
This accounts for three quarters of all requests from EU member states during the same time period.
Germany follows, with 22,845 requests, followed by Italy with 16,993. Finland made just three requests in that time while Croatia, Malta, Slovenia, and the Netherlands all made fewer than 100 requests to the DVLA.
Driving offences which could see you pursued by foreign authorities include speeding, driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, using a mobile phone, not wearing a seatbelt and using a bus lane.

Do I have to pay a speeding fine from another country?​

If you've been caught for a legitimate offence, the easiest action is to pay up. You won't get points on your licence and fines are usually fairly reasonable as long as you pay within a certain time period.
If you ignore the offence, fines will often automatically increase. Under the EU Cross Border Enforcement Directive, Member States are able to chase fines across borders, and you might find that you face action on returning to the country.
If you regularly drive across Europe, you could find your car triggers an automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) camera and the local police will have the powers to enforce the fine - which might, by now, be much larger.
Should you wish to contest the fine, the letter informing you of the penalty will provide details on how to appeal it with the relevant authorities.

 

[nicholsong]

Personally I feel if I get caught speeding and have a fine in any country I would just pay it.

Who DVLA shares data with​

Information on the various products DVLA provides, for what purpose the information can be used and who we share it with.

There are also forms that can be completed for information requests.

I had a Door mirror stolen (hit with force and removed from the vehicle) as I was in a queue by a foreign truck. This was in Essex, I could see the name of the company but not the reg number. The insurance company tracked the truck driver down in Germany and the feed back was they had 100% recovery of costs and the driver fined.

This article is from 2019 and is with regard to a agreement the UK signed up to in 2017


More than 250,000 UK motorists are being pursued by French authorities over alleged driving offences committed this summer.

In 2017, the UK joined 18 other European Member States in agreeing to share details of motorists accused of breaking the law abroad.

If your car is snapped by a speed camera in Germany, for example, the German police can now contact the DVLA in the UK and request the name and address of the registered keeper.


A freedom of information investigation carried out by breathalyser manufacturer AlcoSense has discovered that the French police have requested the details for 246,138 UK vehicles over five months between February and June this year.
This accounts for three quarters of all requests from EU member states during the same time period.
Germany follows, with 22,845 requests, followed by Italy with 16,993. Finland made just three requests in that time while Croatia, Malta, Slovenia, and the Netherlands all made fewer than 100 requests to the DVLA.
Driving offences which could see you pursued by foreign authorities include speeding, driving while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, using a mobile phone, not wearing a seatbelt and using a bus lane.

Do I have to pay a speeding fine from another country?​

If you've been caught for a legitimate offence, the easiest action is to pay up. You won't get points on your licence and fines are usually fairly reasonable as long as you pay within a certain time period.
If you ignore the offence, fines will often automatically increase. Under the EU Cross Border Enforcement Directive, Member States are able to chase fines across borders, and you might find that you face action on returning to the country.
If you regularly drive across Europe, you could find your car triggers an automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) camera and the local police will have the powers to enforce the fine - which might, by now, be much larger.
Should you wish to contest the fine, the letter informing you of the penalty will provide details on how to appeal it with the relevant authorities.

I clicked on that link and noted that it was updated 11th October 2022, so seems to be current.

 

[royandsharont]

I clicked on that link and noted that it was updated 11th October 2022, so seems to be current.

That was the agreement with the EU I was referring to in my post #104. I recall at the time the U.K. did not want to share details and had to be pursued by the EU to do so and then we only did it at the very last chance.

I recall it all happening at the time & was pushed heavily by France, who incidentally allegedly have more speed cameras in the northern part of their country near to U.K. ferry ports than in the total of the rest of their country!

Now that we are no longer a member state I would be surprised if it applied to us anymore given our position before being forced to comply.

 

[Verteuil Man]

That was the agreement with the EU I was referring to in my post #104. I recall at the time the U.K. did not want to share details and had to be pursued by the EU to do so and then we only did it at the very last chance.

I recall it all happening at the time & was pushed heavily by France, who incidentally allegedly have more speed cameras in the northern part of their country near to U.K. ferry ports than in the total of the rest of their country!

Now that we are no longer a member state I would be surprised if it applied to us anymore given our position before being forced to comply.

I think that movement of vehicles is covered the the Vienna Convention 1968 and not EU rules.

 

[royandsharont]

I think that movement of vehicles is covered the the Vienna Convention 1968 and not EU rules.

Not sure about the convention or movement of vehicles but what my post was talking about is the recording and disclosure of personal data under the Data Protection Act 1998 then replaced by the 2018 Act re issuing fines for such as speeding tickets.

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[EuroTrotters]

Yep fill yer boots would have been my reply ,whilst dumping all cards, ,cash & any means of payment.

So? They are French ,enough said.

The list is endless.
1) he has relatives who own sites
2) he has friends who own sites
3) he was offered free holidays for life
4) or an apartment/house /flat /whatever
5)the envelope turned up
etc;

whilst on the beach at Águilas christmas day the 3 dozen+ flt's were mainly French,German,Dutch & Belgians with a few swedes & Norwegians thrown in & what appeared to be a solitary brit but I am not 100% sure ?

^^

A Dutch registered Hymer parked on la grava beach Javea with awning and chairs out late on new years . Clearly with the intention of staying all night and probably a few more.

Ironic thing was, they actually parked next to the no caravan or motorhome sign.

The sheer cheek of the Dutch who are not even allowed to do it in their home country.

 

[georgio]

A country can issue visas for whatever it wants. I suspect Spain and other countries do not because of pressure from Brussels.

 

[busby]

Living in an area where Agriculture is of a greater importance than tourism...we as residents of Spain believe that, the impact on Spanish exports to the UK is causing more harm than the restricted Winter visitors...OK Agriculture provides less than 3% of the Spanish GDP...but any reduction is going to be a big difference...
The Costa Calida is currently rammed again.... last year the same....no effect with Morocco being open again.....be interesting to know how many Brits are ignoring Europ for North Africa?

Quite a few I think looking on a forum on Facebook,,,Quite a few Brits seem to be discovering Morocco for their 90 day break from Schenggen,,that's 90 days of not spending and boosting the Spanish economy..BUSBY.

 

[busby]

We don't want you British riff raff over here. Bugger off somewhere else

If your talking Canaries I don't want to come,,BUSBY..

 

[gus-lopez]

The infringement took place a year ago and the ticket just dropped on the door mat 2 weeks ago

He will find that it comes from who I mentioned.EPC Plc.
It will probably be all in French
It will allude to the Cross Border Directive(CBD).
It will contain all sorts of nonsense.
He needs to be aware that if over 12 months old it is null & void & cannot be claimed, even if it came under the CBC, which it doesn't.

From my research it will be a Penalty Charge Notice *PCN( which is used for

A Penalty Charge Notice is a council-issued fine that is predominantly issued for parking offences (parking on double yellows etc...) as well as breaking some traffic rules like going against a ‘no right turn’ sign or driving in a bus lane.
You can also receive a Penalty Charge Notice for not paying the London Congestion Charge, low emission zone or Dartford Crossing Charge.

therefore it will come under the same rules as parking PCN-s meaning that it has to either be delivered on the spot by an enforcement officer or by cctv. If it is by cctv&camera it has to be received withing 14 days. REGARDLESS of if you live abroad.
EPC Plc take advantage of this & foreigners lack of knowledge of the rulse & will illegally use the "CBD" alluding to the fact that it comes under it.
IT does NOT:
there are 8 offences as listed below.

Eight major road safety related offences are included in the text of the EU Directive:


Speeding;

• Not using a seatbelt;
• Not stopping at a red traffic light or other mandatory stop signal;
• Drink driving;
• Driving under the influence of drugs;
• Not wearing a safety helmet (for motorcyclists);
• Using a forbidden lane (such as the forbidden use of an emergency lane, a lane reserved for public transport, or a lane closed down for road works);
• Illegally using a mobile phone, or any other communications device, while driving.

They attempt to use this legislation as the 8 offences that it covers allow autorities 12 months to send the fine notice.
As said anyone attempting to deceive people that it comes under that legislation is committing offences of
"obtaining a pecuniary advantage"
"obtaining money by deception"
etc:
tell bro in law that is what his response should be .
Additional info & a good source of help is the ¡parking & emissions ' forum on the Which mag site.

If you ignore the offence, fines will often automatically increase. Under the EU Cross Border Enforcement Directive, Member States are able to chase fines across borders, and you might find that you face action on returning to the country.

But as aboive there are only 8 offences & being Penalty Charge Notices (PCN) emissions appears in the UK to come under the same rules as parking for fines as I have outlined above.

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