Scam or legit?

[HKF]

Strange you can see the number plates... Most dealers/private sellers cover these up. A few of the LHD 'number plates' don't look real, they look 'photoshopped'. The ones I've checked MOT/Tax for all check out but The Hymer B634 hasn't been taxed since December 2020 and MOT ran out in December 2021. it certainly does look dodgy. It would be interesting to crowd fund the £150 on the forums for the 'delivery' and see what happens........

Nothing would happen. Try reverse searching for the images. These vans have been copied from other sites. See my earlier post. This is a scam 100%.

 

[Harrogate motorhomer]

Looking at the info available on Hague motors I would guess it’s been used by scammers & they may not even know it. They seem like small time traders working from home. Definitely a scam.

 

[kaja1984]

You are amazing!! THANK YOU for your quick opinions and the investigation, I appreciate it! I needed a sense check, you confirmed my suspicions. Best wishes!

Kaja

 

[StephandJohn]

Good luck in your search Kaga1984. Hope to hear more for you during your search.

 

[Graham Page]

Hi Everyone! It's my first time here and I need your help My husband and I are currently searching for a used motorhome for our family and we came across a company called Hague Motors. The company seems to have excellent motorhomes for sale at astonishingly low prices. I filled out a form on their website and received a reply the next working day. It turns out the prices exclude VAT (20%) as these vehicles are re-possessed from people who unable to continue their leaseback contracts. Even with added 20% the motorhome we are interested in works out 4-5k (!!) LESS than on any other website. It seems too good to be true to me.

I asked to view the vehicle but it isn't possible - the company advised they closed their warehouses and staff is working from home due to Covid. They can deliver the motorhome to my address for a fee (£150) and I can return it within 48hrs if I don't want it (for any reason). But I need to pay for it first - bank transfer only (I asked about the credit card). I can't find any reviews on this company. Their emails seem to be 'copy and paste' and contain grammar mistakes. So many red flags - what do you think?

Thank you in advance!
Kaja

Just Google Maps the address on their website - Suite 2 Beswick House, Greenfold Way, Leigh, England, WN7 3X and you will see its a serviced office or mailbox address - You won't find many motorhomes or caravans there! Total Scam

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[scally]

Hi Everyone! It's my first time here and I need your help My husband and I are currently searching for a used motorhome for our family and we came across a company called Hague Motors. The company seems to have excellent motorhomes for sale at astonishingly low prices. I filled out a form on their website and received a reply the next working day. It turns out the prices exclude VAT (20%) as these vehicles are re-possessed from people who unable to continue their leaseback contracts. Even with added 20% the motorhome we are interested in works out 4-5k (!!) LESS than on any other website. It seems too good to be true to me.

I asked to view the vehicle but it isn't possible - the company advised they closed their warehouses and staff is working from home due to Covid. They can deliver the motorhome to my address for a fee (£150) and I can return it within 48hrs if I don't want it (for any reason). But I need to pay for it first - bank transfer only (I asked about the credit card). I can't find any reviews on this company. Their emails seem to be 'copy and paste' and contain grammar mistakes. So many red flags - what do you think?

Thank you in advance!
Kaja

Deffo scam not worth the risk

 

[Minxy]

You are amazing!! THANK YOU for your quick opinions and the investigation, I appreciate it! I needed a sense check, you confirmed my suspicions. Best wishes!

Kaja

Hi and welcome to the fun house!

As you've found we're a helpful bunch - have a look in the classified ads on the forum as there might be something there. Also consider joining too as you can then download the 'Buyeing guide' for free which should help you understand MHs and what to look for.

 

[Andy Gos]

Are you sure? Suite 2 Beswick house is and accountants I think.

Yes, as in post 65 above the companies register gives home address of registered officers which is a farm. Its about 12 mins from the registered office. Both near Warrington. Google earth shows no obvious van storage and certainly not in the numbers on there website.

 

[CazPaul]

Yes, as in post 65 above the companies register gives home address of registered officers which is a farm. Its about 12 mins from the registered office. Both near Warrington. Google earth shows no obvious van storage and certainly not in the numbers on there website.

He says all the motorhomes are stored in Penzance.

 

[HKF]

He says all the motorhomes are stored in Penzance.

And the pictures of 'his' motorhomes are copied from others dealers' websites. Try doing some reverse searching. It's a scam.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mitzimad]

as a rulle if it more than 5%cheaper than comparable motorhomes its a scam dont part with any money till youve seen driven and checked any vehicle

 

[CazPaul]

And the pictures of 'his' motorhomes are copied from others dealers' websites. Try doing some reverse searching. It's a scam.

The last I heard from him when I insisted on a viewing is he will try and make some time next week to go to Penzance so I can view
I agree he’s a conman

 

[Andy Gos]

He says all the motorhomes are stored in Penzance.

Which proves it's a scam. Home address and offices in Warrington with product stored in Penzance! Very convenient, but only if you want people to part with money, product unseen!! Enough said.

 

[Snowflakes]

Had a bit of time to do a bit of digging with our dealer. It may help someone in the future?

Good evening Mr. Snowden,

Thank you for your interest in our company.

The Auto-Trail Apache 700 SE that you are interested in was under a leaseback contract, but the owner was unable to pay his monthly installments because his company has filed for bankruptcy as it's debts skyrocketed during the lockdown period so we took back it's possession.

In the present climate regarding COVID-19 we set a low price to guarantee a sale. Now we are selling this motorhome for £20,900 Net Amount (excluding VAT) to recover the remaining debit of the leaseback contract and this is the final price for this motorhome with no other liabilities (debts) or hidden taxes to our company.
All prices shown on our website will be subject to VAT at 20%. For export, to qualify for zero VAT rate you must provide us with a valid VAT number with corresponding address.
Each motorhome we receive for sale is carefully inspected and serviced (Full Habitation Service and Full Mechanical Service) to ensure that it meets our highest standards. All our motorhomes comes with 1 year International warranty and new MOT.
The motorhome is a right hand drive and the V5 document, current MOT and old receipts are included. This motorhome is in great shape, no pets or smokers, it was always been cleaned after every trip, washed and kept covered, so it's in beautiful condition and ready to go straight to travel.
We have our own logistic division and we can offer you delivery services at reasonable rates. In order to minimize the costs of our transactions, we are billing only the fuel. We have weekly deliveries in UK and also in Europe from 2003.

If you are interested or if you need more information just let us know and we will be happy to assist you.



Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan
HAGUE MOTORS LIMITED

NEXT ::
Thank you.
Where is the MH for viewing, as said in my previous email I can travel and have the time to meet your schedule.
Thank you.
JS

Reply :::

After very careful consideration in these very challenging times, we made the decision to temporarily closed all our 4 warehouses. As of today all our sales staff will be working from home. The motorhome is currently held in our warehouse from Penzance and we have no personnel available there to arrange a viewing/inspection (shortage of workers because most of our employees have the new form of Covid-19, Omicron). This is the reason why you will have the 2 days return policy time to inspect the motorhome and the papers before give your final decision.
PLEASE NOTE: On delivery you will benefit of a 48 hours inspection period of the motorhome. During the 48 hours inspection period you can have the motorhome inspected by your local garage, we absolutely welcome any checks you want to perform on the motorhome and documents. If within 2 days of the date of delivery of your motorhome, you are not entirely satisfied with it, will take the motorhome back and refund you the payment. This is subject to the motorhome having not covered more than 500 miles at the date of return. The motorhome should be in the same condition, and complete with any extras that were present upon sale.

Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan

Reply ::

Dear Mr. Fagan

So let me understand this.

I pay you for something I have not seen? On your word, someone I have never met before. You arrange delivery after I pay you the full payment, then you allow me two days to examine the vehicle (not the thirty days total any motor dealer has to give by law) and if I do not like it I will have it collected and my monies refunded?

Please confirm or clarify.
JS

Reply ::

Our company operates since 2003 and we didn’t have any complains. We are not a "ghost" company and you can easily verify that we have never been involved in any fraudulent activities and we will not begin now. We have resisted in this business so many years through fairness and seriousness.

Please check: HAGUE MOTORS LIMITED

Please find also attached our company documents and also my passport.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan


Reply ::

Mr Fagan
Thank you for your documentation, however that still does not remove the fact that you cannot allow prospective cash buyers to view the items on sale.
I have to ask you, yourself, would you be comfortable in paying up to 25K on a photo and a promise, as you state your reputation in the business is impeccable.

So can we stop messing around I am a cash buyer willing to view anywhere in the country and buy on sight if the MH is as you say, I do not think that is to much to request in this current climate, as I said earlier when the money leaves our account then it could disappear. If you are not willing to let us view and want to stick with your original plan of delivery and return of monies if not satisfied, that I am sure you will agree is a transport cost to both of us, and not fully acceptable by both parties, however.

Can I make a suggestion that I lodge the monies with our solicitor, you will get confirmation and when the motorhome arrives and is satisfactory I will advise my solicitor to release all monies to you instantly. Is that agreeable to you?

John Snowden

Reply ::

I will try to release my schedule and get to the warehouse in Penzance probably next week. I will keep you updated.

Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan


Here ended the communication. If you read through, the grammar is inconsistent, it is all typical of the underhand lengths some of these people go to in an effort to release what they think are unsuspecting seniors of their hard earned cash. This is just another slightly more sophisticated take on the same scams that were going on with most caravan and motorhome selling sites, also EBay over the last few years. Using the Solicitor to hold monies usually stops them in their tracks, but I must say this person is persistent I await his further communication.

I had one last year that the deal was really to good to be true, but up for sale not 20 miles from where I lived, but the a dealer was coming to buy it on Monday PM, and it was Saturday. They gave me the registration number of the MH checked out the same name as they gave even had a Bank Account for transfer in that name that also matched the address, but I could not view until Monday morning before the dealer, as they were away for the weekend in it. So I drove up to the house address in Ipswich, knocked on the door and the owner's were very surprised to see me, as they did not have a MH for sale and were not away, I phoned the mobile scammers number I had, and explained that the bank transfer could not go through as it was too much, the house owners were listening in, then the scammer asked for a 2k deposit just to hold it.
The house owners called the Police, I had a quick interview, later the next week the police actually got the scammers, turned out travellers on a site somewhere in Essex.

 

[CazPaul]

Had a bit of time to do a bit of digging with our dealer. It may help someone in the future?

Good evening Mr. Snowden,

Thank you for your interest in our company.

The Auto-Trail Apache 700 SE that you are interested in was under a leaseback contract, but the owner was unable to pay his monthly installments because his company has filed for bankruptcy as it's debts skyrocketed during the lockdown period so we took back it's possession.

In the present climate regarding COVID-19 we set a low price to guarantee a sale. Now we are selling this motorhome for £20,900 Net Amount (excluding VAT) to recover the remaining debit of the leaseback contract and this is the final price for this motorhome with no other liabilities (debts) or hidden taxes to our company.
All prices shown on our website will be subject to VAT at 20%. For export, to qualify for zero VAT rate you must provide us with a valid VAT number with corresponding address.
Each motorhome we receive for sale is carefully inspected and serviced (Full Habitation Service and Full Mechanical Service) to ensure that it meets our highest standards. All our motorhomes comes with 1 year International warranty and new MOT.
The motorhome is a right hand drive and the V5 document, current MOT and old receipts are included. This motorhome is in great shape, no pets or smokers, it was always been cleaned after every trip, washed and kept covered, so it's in beautiful condition and ready to go straight to travel.
We have our own logistic division and we can offer you delivery services at reasonable rates. In order to minimize the costs of our transactions, we are billing only the fuel. We have weekly deliveries in UK and also in Europe from 2003.

If you are interested or if you need more information just let us know and we will be happy to assist you.



Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan
HAGUE MOTORS LIMITED

NEXT ::
Thank you.
Where is the MH for viewing, as said in my previous email I can travel and have the time to meet your schedule.
Thank you.
JS

Reply :::

After very careful consideration in these very challenging times, we made the decision to temporarily closed all our 4 warehouses. As of today all our sales staff will be working from home. The motorhome is currently held in our warehouse from Penzance and we have no personnel available there to arrange a viewing/inspection (shortage of workers because most of our employees have the new form of Covid-19, Omicron). This is the reason why you will have the 2 days return policy time to inspect the motorhome and the papers before give your final decision.
PLEASE NOTE: On delivery you will benefit of a 48 hours inspection period of the motorhome. During the 48 hours inspection period you can have the motorhome inspected by your local garage, we absolutely welcome any checks you want to perform on the motorhome and documents. If within 2 days of the date of delivery of your motorhome, you are not entirely satisfied with it, will take the motorhome back and refund you the payment. This is subject to the motorhome having not covered more than 500 miles at the date of return. The motorhome should be in the same condition, and complete with any extras that were present upon sale.

Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan

Reply ::

Dear Mr. Fagan

So let me understand this.

I pay you for something I have not seen? On your word, someone I have never met before. You arrange delivery after I pay you the full payment, then you allow me two days to examine the vehicle (not the thirty days total any motor dealer has to give by law) and if I do not like it I will have it collected and my monies refunded?

Please confirm or clarify.
JS

Reply ::

Our company operates since 2003 and we didn’t have any complains. We are not a "ghost" company and you can easily verify that we have never been involved in any fraudulent activities and we will not begin now. We have resisted in this business so many years through fairness and seriousness.

Please check: HAGUE MOTORS LIMITED

Please find also attached our company documents and also my passport.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan


Reply ::

Mr Fagan
Thank you for your documentation, however that still does not remove the fact that you cannot allow prospective cash buyers to view the items on sale.
I have to ask you, yourself, would you be comfortable in paying up to 25K on a photo and a promise, as you state your reputation in the business is impeccable.

So can we stop messing around I am a cash buyer willing to view anywhere in the country and buy on sight if the MH is as you say, I do not think that is to much to request in this current climate, as I said earlier when the money leaves our account then it could disappear. If you are not willing to let us view and want to stick with your original plan of delivery and return of monies if not satisfied, that I am sure you will agree is a transport cost to both of us, and not fully acceptable by both parties, however.

Can I make a suggestion that I lodge the monies with our solicitor, you will get confirmation and when the motorhome arrives and is satisfactory I will advise my solicitor to release all monies to you instantly. Is that agreeable to you?

John Snowden

Reply ::

I will try to release my schedule and get to the warehouse in Penzance probably next week. I will keep you updated.

Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan


Here ended the communication. If you read through, the grammar is inconsistent, it is all typical of the underhand lengths some of these people go to in an effort to release what they think are unsuspecting seniors of their hard earned cash. This is just another slightly more sophisticated take on the same scams that were going on with most caravan and motorhome selling sites, also EBay over the last few years. Using the Solicitor to hold monies usually stops them in their tracks, but I must say this person is persistent I await his further communication.

I had one last year that the deal was really to good to be true, but up for sale not 20 miles from where I lived, but the a dealer was coming to buy it on Monday PM, and it was Saturday. They gave me the registration number of the MH checked out the same name as they gave even had a Bank Account for transfer in that name that also matched the address, but I could not view until Monday morning before the dealer, as they were away for the weekend in it. So I drove up to the house address in Ipswich, knocked on the door and the owner's were very surprised to see me, as they did not have a MH for sale and were not away, I phoned the mobile scammers number I had, and explained that the bank transfer could not go through as it was too much, the house owners were listening in, then the scammer asked for a 2k deposit just to hold it.
The house owners called the Police, I had a quick interview, later the next week the police actually got the scammers, turned out travellers on a site somewhere in Essex.

I have had exactly the same replies word for word when I enquired about a Hymer he has, he’s going to be busy next week mind, he’s making some time in his busy schedule to meet me in Penzance too so I can view.

You have to remember 99.9% of people know he’s a crook but there will always be the odd gullible person who falls for it which is what he knows and wants.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[AXO66]

Yep, he only needs to collect 25k plus 20%VAT once or twice to be ok for a year !
(Should this thread be retitled Mr Fagin?)

 

[Andy Gos]

Had a bit of time to do a bit of digging with our dealer. It may help someone in the future?

Good evening Mr. Snowden,

Thank you for your interest in our company.

The Auto-Trail Apache 700 SE that you are interested in was under a leaseback contract, but the owner was unable to pay his monthly installments because his company has filed for bankruptcy as it's debts skyrocketed during the lockdown period so we took back it's possession.

In the present climate regarding COVID-19 we set a low price to guarantee a sale. Now we are selling this motorhome for £20,900 Net Amount (excluding VAT) to recover the remaining debit of the leaseback contract and this is the final price for this motorhome with no other liabilities (debts) or hidden taxes to our company.
All prices shown on our website will be subject to VAT at 20%. For export, to qualify for zero VAT rate you must provide us with a valid VAT number with corresponding address.
Each motorhome we receive for sale is carefully inspected and serviced (Full Habitation Service and Full Mechanical Service) to ensure that it meets our highest standards. All our motorhomes comes with 1 year International warranty and new MOT.
The motorhome is a right hand drive and the V5 document, current MOT and old receipts are included. This motorhome is in great shape, no pets or smokers, it was always been cleaned after every trip, washed and kept covered, so it's in beautiful condition and ready to go straight to travel.
We have our own logistic division and we can offer you delivery services at reasonable rates. In order to minimize the costs of our transactions, we are billing only the fuel. We have weekly deliveries in UK and also in Europe from 2003.

If you are interested or if you need more information just let us know and we will be happy to assist you.



Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan
HAGUE MOTORS LIMITED

NEXT ::
Thank you.
Where is the MH for viewing, as said in my previous email I can travel and have the time to meet your schedule.
Thank you.
JS

Reply :::

After very careful consideration in these very challenging times, we made the decision to temporarily closed all our 4 warehouses. As of today all our sales staff will be working from home. The motorhome is currently held in our warehouse from Penzance and we have no personnel available there to arrange a viewing/inspection (shortage of workers because most of our employees have the new form of Covid-19, Omicron). This is the reason why you will have the 2 days return policy time to inspect the motorhome and the papers before give your final decision.
PLEASE NOTE: On delivery you will benefit of a 48 hours inspection period of the motorhome. During the 48 hours inspection period you can have the motorhome inspected by your local garage, we absolutely welcome any checks you want to perform on the motorhome and documents. If within 2 days of the date of delivery of your motorhome, you are not entirely satisfied with it, will take the motorhome back and refund you the payment. This is subject to the motorhome having not covered more than 500 miles at the date of return. The motorhome should be in the same condition, and complete with any extras that were present upon sale.

Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan

Reply ::

Dear Mr. Fagan

So let me understand this.

I pay you for something I have not seen? On your word, someone I have never met before. You arrange delivery after I pay you the full payment, then you allow me two days to examine the vehicle (not the thirty days total any motor dealer has to give by law) and if I do not like it I will have it collected and my monies refunded?

Please confirm or clarify.
JS

Reply ::

Our company operates since 2003 and we didn’t have any complains. We are not a "ghost" company and you can easily verify that we have never been involved in any fraudulent activities and we will not begin now. We have resisted in this business so many years through fairness and seriousness.

Please check: HAGUE MOTORS LIMITED

Please find also attached our company documents and also my passport.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan


Reply ::

Mr Fagan
Thank you for your documentation, however that still does not remove the fact that you cannot allow prospective cash buyers to view the items on sale.
I have to ask you, yourself, would you be comfortable in paying up to 25K on a photo and a promise, as you state your reputation in the business is impeccable.

So can we stop messing around I am a cash buyer willing to view anywhere in the country and buy on sight if the MH is as you say, I do not think that is to much to request in this current climate, as I said earlier when the money leaves our account then it could disappear. If you are not willing to let us view and want to stick with your original plan of delivery and return of monies if not satisfied, that I am sure you will agree is a transport cost to both of us, and not fully acceptable by both parties, however.

Can I make a suggestion that I lodge the monies with our solicitor, you will get confirmation and when the motorhome arrives and is satisfactory I will advise my solicitor to release all monies to you instantly. Is that agreeable to you?

John Snowden

Reply ::

I will try to release my schedule and get to the warehouse in Penzance probably next week. I will keep you updated.

Kind regards,
Martin Damien Fagan


Here ended the communication. If you read through, the grammar is inconsistent, it is all typical of the underhand lengths some of these people go to in an effort to release what they think are unsuspecting seniors of their hard earned cash. This is just another slightly more sophisticated take on the same scams that were going on with most caravan and motorhome selling sites, also EBay over the last few years. Using the Solicitor to hold monies usually stops them in their tracks, but I must say this person is persistent I await his further communication.

I had one last year that the deal was really to good to be true, but up for sale not 20 miles from where I lived, but the a dealer was coming to buy it on Monday PM, and it was Saturday. They gave me the registration number of the MH checked out the same name as they gave even had a Bank Account for transfer in that name that also matched the address, but I could not view until Monday morning before the dealer, as they were away for the weekend in it. So I drove up to the house address in Ipswich, knocked on the door and the owner's were very surprised to see me, as they did not have a MH for sale and were not away, I phoned the mobile scammers number I had, and explained that the bank transfer could not go through as it was too much, the house owners were listening in, then the scammer asked for a 2k deposit just to hold it.
The house owners called the Police, I had a quick interview, later the next week the police actually got the scammers, turned out travellers on a site somewhere in Essex.

Thats pretty conclusive. Well done for the effort. Can't say I am surprised by the last sentence.

 

[kaja1984]

The seller doesn't seem to have realised that the OP (who hasn't reappeared since their first post) seems to be in Poland from their Profile flag.

Yes, I am indeed in Poland. And I am definitely not trying to hide it...

 

[kaja1984]

Hi and welcome to the fun house!

As you've found we're a helpful bunch - have a look in the classified ads on the forum as there might be something there. Also consider joining too as you can then download the 'Buyeing guide' for free which should help you understand MHs and what to look for.

Thank you very much Minxy I will download the Buying guide now.

 

[Dutch 68]

Hi Everyone! It's my first time here and I need your help My husband and I are currently searching for a used motorhome for our family and we came across a company called Hague Motors. The company seems to have excellent motorhomes for sale at astonishingly low prices. I filled out a form on their website and received a reply the next working day. It turns out the prices exclude VAT (20%) as these vehicles are re-possessed from people who unable to continue their leaseback contracts. Even with added 20% the motorhome we are interested in works out 4-5k (!!) LESS than on any other website. It seems too good to be true to me.

I asked to view the vehicle but it isn't possible - the company advised they closed their warehouses and staff is working from home due to Covid. They can deliver the motorhome to my address for a fee (£150) and I can return it within 48hrs if I don't want it (for any reason). But I need to pay for it first - bank transfer only (I asked about the credit card). I can't find any reviews on this company. Their emails seem to be 'copy and paste' and contain grammar mistakes. So many red flags - what do you think?

Thank you in advance!
Kaja

You must be joking yes? Stay well away would be my advise, you don’t buy on these conditions if any sense, soooo many scammers out there.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[kaja1984]

Hi Everyone!

Thank you again for your help Here is an update on our situation:

We did not contact Hague Motors again. I reported the scammers to the NCSC.

We have been in Poland for a year now raising a new member of the family my husband has been travelling between PL and UK but we will be returning to the UK next month (yay!). We wanted to purchase a motorhome when we come back as our plan was to travel around the UK's national parks for 3-4 months before settling in a new city for a few years. We decided it will be better to look for one once we are properly back and not rush into anything...we now decided to leave it for now and look into doing a big family trip in 2023 instead.

I will be back on the Forum in the future.

All the best
Kaja

 

[Mrsambulancekidd]

All the best
Kaja

So glad you didn't get scammed, the replies have been excellent, this forum worth it's weight in gold.
I wanted to ask about your name, only because I had a Norwegian Fjord horse by the name of Kaja.