mitzimad
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As this is a uk based forum we see it diferently as we seldom get enough sun to tempt us to seek shade
Roof solar is just a waste of money….
- Thread starter dawsey
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I must confess, I haven't read all the post, a bottle of red wine intervened BUT, I long ago came to the conclusion that, in the UK, solar makes little sense.
When one needs it most, in Winter, the sun is, usually, not available.
It would cost me at least a £1000 to convert to Solar and, in my mind, that's an awful lot of nights EHU hookups to RELIABLE electric at an extra £5 per night.
When one needs it most, in Winter, the sun is, usually, not available.
It would cost me at least a £1000 to convert to Solar and, in my mind, that's an awful lot of nights EHU hookups to RELIABLE electric at an extra £5 per night.
Al n Val
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it’s approx 200 nights which we do each yearI must confess, I haven't read all the post, a bottle of red wine intervened BUT, I long ago came to the conclusion that, in the UK, solar makes little sense.
When one needs it most, in Winter, the sun is, usually, not available.
It would cost me at least a £1000 to convert to Solar and, in my mind, that's an awful lot of nights EHU hookups to RELIABLE electric at an extra £5 per night.
I’d rather pay the money for solar then year 2/3/4/5 and more were free
How was your popcornContentious, yes I know. I can almost hear the cries of derision and snorts of laughter…
But - the firm conclusion we have come to after living in the van through four seasons on the continent, is that for any camper, roof mounted solar panels are actually near-useless and are just a waste of money IF you have a decent B2B and can hook up, and you do actually routinely use some power via a decent Invertor as we do.
Hear me out….
First - our setup. I wanted us to be self sufficient. No need for hookup as we’d be full timing in France through winter with few campsites open, so staying on free aires. I installed as many panels as I could fit onto the roof. This was 600W of roof solar (6x100W) connected in parallel, combined 25/50A MPPT and B2B, 200ah of Lithium and 2000W hard-wired invertor, all integrated with the existing Schaudt Elektroblok systems. Van is a 21yr old Hymer A class. The only change to the standard vehicle electrical architecture was an uprated alternator (150A) to ensure 80A could be delivered at idle.
All has worked perfectly for a nearly a year. The only part of the system which isn’t really useful, and actually just isn’t needed is all the solar panels. With a decent B2B, the solar panels are, in fact, not really needed at all.
So why is the roof solar useless?
Summer
Yes you can get great output from the panels in full sun. I’ve seen 27 Amps at 20V, 540 Watts. The 6mm CSA copper cables from the collector to the MPPT were actually getting hot. At one point I was just about able to run the similar rated power a/c unit just from all that lovely solar power.
But - it’s really not a good idea to park a van in full sun in a continental summer. It heats up and we couldn’t get it cool enough to sleep until midnight, running a high power extractor continuously. So you seek out shade. We would always park in the shade of a nice big trees to AVOID direct sun on the van. Then, of course the solar panels give very little, my 600W gives about 50W even with the clever MPPT system. The panels, in shade, become effectively useless.
With a 50A B2B, you only need to run the engine for 10minutes to put the same amount of charge into your batteries.
We found that when parked in the shade we could never get sufficient charge even from our huge roof mounted solar array to recharge our batteries. After four or five days they would be discharged, just a couple of days more than in winter…
If wildcamping/free car park/aire with no EHU, even in summer we still fully discharge our batteries and had no choice but to run the engine or drive to the shops.
If on paid aire or campsite it’s just better to park in the shade and plug in EHU (you can run engine to recharge batteries and save the EHU cost but you may well consume more diesel than the hook up cost!)
Winter - usually on free aires
The sun is always so low that there is almost no effective charging, but the electrical energy use is higher (lighting, being stuck inside more etc). The panels contribute so little it is laughable. If not moving every couple of days, if no EHU you have to run the engine. We got in the habit when stationary of running the engine for up to an hour every day just after nightfall to both recharge the batteries and help the van build and retain sufficient warmth for the night. The solar panels in full sun would give a peak of maybe 4-5A on a very clear winter day, but you would have to be completely out in the open and nowhere near a building or a tree. In reality, the low sun was usually obstructed by trees or buildings and we averaged maybe 1-2A during the short day. Conclusion, in winter, our solar panels were absolutely useless.
When driving, a good 50A B2B will so rapidly charge lithium batteries, it again rendering the solar panels pointless. There were many times when we drove for an hour and it was cloudy so I would isolate the solar (which might have been giving 5A) to make the integrated MPPT/B2B auto switch from 25 to 50A just to charge faster.
Conclusion - if you have a powerful B2B, and you do actually make use of an invertor and consume some power using 240V appliances (yes I know this isn’t everyone..) then heavy roof mounted solar for a camper is just not worth the money as it really is effectively useless, summer or winter. It’s way better to park in the shade and connect EHU summer, and, if no EHU is available, in winter you will find that you have to run the engine every day no matter how many panels you might have (you also benefit from all the lovely engine heat, so little is wasted).
Looking at our experience, I concluded that the only way to get real utilisation and power out of solar panels in a continental summer without turning your van into a dutch oven is a collapsible suitcase/remote panel set up, where you can set up and arrange a remote array of panels and point them toward direct sunlight, with the van remaining safely parked in the shade. This would work, but of course you’d need the space, so you are really limited to campsites.
Right, I will get my popcorn……
Sounds to me a clobbered up system that can greatly be improved. The poxy combined solar b2b for the start, and panels wired into 2S 3P to avoid 6mm warm wires. Heat is wasted power.Contentious, yes I know. I can almost hear the cries of derision and snorts of laughter…
But - the firm conclusion we have come to after living in the van through four seasons on the continent, is that for any camper, roof mounted solar panels are actually near-useless and are just a waste of money IF you have a decent B2B and can hook up, and you do actually routinely use some power via a decent Invertor as we do.
Hear me out….
First - our setup. I wanted us to be self sufficient. No need for hookup as we’d be full timing in France through winter with few campsites open, so staying on free aires. I installed as many panels as I could fit onto the roof. This was 600W of roof solar (6x100W) connected in parallel, combined 25/50A MPPT and B2B, 200ah of Lithium and 2000W hard-wired invertor, all integrated with the existing Schaudt Elektroblok systems. Van is a 21yr old Hymer A class. The only change to the standard vehicle electrical architecture was an uprated alternator (150A) to ensure 80A could be delivered at idle.
All has worked perfectly for a nearly a year. The only part of the system which isn’t really useful, and actually just isn’t needed is all the solar panels. With a decent B2B, the solar panels are, in fact, not really needed at all.
So why is the roof solar useless?
Summer
Yes you can get great output from the panels in full sun. I’ve seen 27 Amps at 20V, 540 Watts. The 6mm CSA copper cables from the collector to the MPPT were actually getting hot. At one point I was just about able to run the similar rated power a/c unit just from all that lovely solar power.
But - it’s really not a good idea to park a van in full sun in a continental summer. It heats up and we couldn’t get it cool enough to sleep until midnight, running a high power extractor continuously. So you seek out shade. We would always park in the shade of a nice big trees to AVOID direct sun on the van. Then, of course the solar panels give very little, my 600W gives about 50W even with the clever MPPT system. The panels, in shade, become effectively useless.
With a 50A B2B, you only need to run the engine for 10minutes to put the same amount of charge into your batteries.
We found that when parked in the shade we could never get sufficient charge even from our huge roof mounted solar array to recharge our batteries. After four or five days they would be discharged, just a couple of days more than in winter…
If wildcamping/free car park/aire with no EHU, even in summer we still fully discharge our batteries and had no choice but to run the engine or drive to the shops.
If on paid aire or campsite it’s just better to park in the shade and plug in EHU (you can run engine to recharge batteries and save the EHU cost but you may well consume more diesel than the hook up cost!)
Winter - usually on free aires
The sun is always so low that there is almost no effective charging, but the electrical energy use is higher (lighting, being stuck inside more etc). The panels contribute so little it is laughable. If not moving every couple of days, if no EHU you have to run the engine. We got in the habit when stationary of running the engine for up to an hour every day just after nightfall to both recharge the batteries and help the van build and retain sufficient warmth for the night. The solar panels in full sun would give a peak of maybe 4-5A on a very clear winter day, but you would have to be completely out in the open and nowhere near a building or a tree. In reality, the low sun was usually obstructed by trees or buildings and we averaged maybe 1-2A during the short day. Conclusion, in winter, our solar panels were absolutely useless.
When driving, a good 50A B2B will so rapidly charge lithium batteries, it again rendering the solar panels pointless. There were many times when we drove for an hour and it was cloudy so I would isolate the solar (which might have been giving 5A) to make the integrated MPPT/B2B auto switch from 25 to 50A just to charge faster.
Conclusion - if you have a powerful B2B, and you do actually make use of an invertor and consume some power using 240V appliances (yes I know this isn’t everyone..) then heavy roof mounted solar for a camper is just not worth the money as it really is effectively useless, summer or winter. It’s way better to park in the shade and connect EHU summer, and, if no EHU is available, in winter you will find that you have to run the engine every day no matter how many panels you might have (you also benefit from all the lovely engine heat, so little is wasted).
Looking at our experience, I concluded that the only way to get real utilisation and power out of solar panels in a continental summer without turning your van into a dutch oven is a collapsible suitcase/remote panel set up, where you can set up and arrange a remote array of panels and point them toward direct sunlight, with the van remaining safely parked in the shade. This would work, but of course you’d need the space, so you are really limited to campsites.
Right, I will get my popcorn……
Then look into tilting as well, or a poratable to supplement in winter. Solar does work in winter, not brilliant, but if you adjust/adapt a little to the conditions, you can make a success of it.
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I must confess, I haven't read all the post, a bottle of red wine intervened BUT, I long ago came to the conclusion that, in the UK, solar makes little sense.
When one needs it most, in Winter, the sun is, usually, not available.
It would cost me at least a £1000 to convert to Solar and, in my mind, that's an awful lot of nights EHU hookups to RELIABLE electric at an extra £5 per night.
But for those who usually 'wildcamp' you have to add the site fee also, so at minimum that could be £25pn, which changes the calculation considerably.
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We have always benefitted from Solar and Love it almost as much as our Re-fillable gas bottles.
100 watt solar on the roof and 2 x 90 amp batteries. Just had 5 nights of grid, Lynn dries her hair every morning and battery voltage was 12.6v when we left site yesterday. So solar works for us.
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We have a Freezer we run off the inverter, along with a compressor cooler.
Alongside this, we can watch TV, use the Gas Heating, water pump for many days. Even in winter when heading for the Alps or Pyrenees.
I am going to fit a solar panel to our caravan now the EHU Charges are going up.
Alongside this, we can watch TV, use the Gas Heating, water pump for many days. Even in winter when heading for the Alps or Pyrenees.
I am going to fit a solar panel to our caravan now the EHU Charges are going up.
but 200 nights, (and £1000 is the ABSOLUTE minimum one would pay for the Solar + batteries if one needed to rely upon it for wildcamping,) will cover me for 2-3yrs as I have just returned from 6weeks away and was only on EHU for 5 days. (3 days of which were unnecessary)
I average, per year, approximately, 1-2day a week, mostly in the colder months which are getting less & less due to Global warming and my engine heats the hab water while traveling and my fridge runs on gas or 12v.
PS. By years 4/5 I doubt you will be happy with your present set up and will have paid out again for an upgrade
PPS. How much did your set up cost,?
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See post 70.
I stay, usually on CCC Sites, CL's & THS where one can choose to have electricity or not and if not, with my OAP discount, can be less than £10 per night.
and no, I'm not going to tell you where, if I did, it would be difficult to get a pitch.
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Our system is 20+years old solar 300watts original battery’s 320amps very heavy use electric kettle air fryer electric twin hob hair dryer Sebo hover I don’t know how we’ve managed.what about your 90day rule?
I'm impressed that you have 20+ years old batteries and Solar must have been a rare beast before the turn of the century.
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Even though he is just trying to get a response I will bite a bit, since having this ambulance ,about five years now, we have parked In shade or sun wherever we can get, we have a compressor fridge , a big one not a glorified coolbox and all the usual stuff.
We have two 100w solar panels with a bog standard Chinese controller, two 100 amp AGM batteries, no b2b, and we have never hooked up anywhere unless we had to pay for it.
Never been anywhere near running out of electricity.
The whole setup was about £200, as I already had the batteries.
We have two 100w solar panels with a bog standard Chinese controller, two 100 amp AGM batteries, no b2b, and we have never hooked up anywhere unless we had to pay for it.
Never been anywhere near running out of electricity.
The whole setup was about £200, as I already had the batteries.
Interesting op. We seldom stay in one place more than one or at the most two nights and thinking about it the better option for us would be a B2B and forget solar. We don't have an inverter and the charge from driving would be plenty for what we use.
MichaelT
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Like some on here I'm beginning to doubt solar. For the past 10 days we've had an enforced stay on the Aire in Jaca due to a medical issue. We have 150w solar and 200a lithium with a votronic mmpt controller.
We have used Air fryer a lot, slow cooker and a fan 24*7 as its been 36c here. Problem is the sun does not get high enough over the mountains and trees till about 11 to put any power in and then goes about 3.30 as the trees block it. Been getting 5a charge when in full sun so our battery is never getting fully charged and is now down to 27%. Not a problem as we are moving today so will get an hours driving in which should put 20a back and its unusual for us to be stationary for so long (normally move every day or 2). I know 150w is not a lot but normally we get charged by driving and sun but having to try and get shade plus the position of the Aire has left us wanting. We had 10 days in Germany at the Christmas Markets in 2021 and never went below 50% but that was moving every day.
We have used Air fryer a lot, slow cooker and a fan 24*7 as its been 36c here. Problem is the sun does not get high enough over the mountains and trees till about 11 to put any power in and then goes about 3.30 as the trees block it. Been getting 5a charge when in full sun so our battery is never getting fully charged and is now down to 27%. Not a problem as we are moving today so will get an hours driving in which should put 20a back and its unusual for us to be stationary for so long (normally move every day or 2). I know 150w is not a lot but normally we get charged by driving and sun but having to try and get shade plus the position of the Aire has left us wanting. We had 10 days in Germany at the Christmas Markets in 2021 and never went below 50% but that was moving every day.
Last weekend in rural lincs. 1 x 100 watt solar panel.In the summer or abroad
Out of curiosity, how much did your set up cost?
After 25 years of caravans and motorhome, I’m still trying to work out what folks with these huge solar arrays and battery banks do with all this power.
We spent 2 days / 2 nights away in Feb with no hook up, everything was still working including the Truma blown air heating.
But then again I don’t look at the battery voltage gauge.
If the lights come on the battery‘s working.
I think it's your inverter use that is going to be difficult to power year round without a hook up if you're stationary for a few days
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MichaelT
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Normally it's OK but 10 days has taken its toll
We will still be ok for a couple of days but going stir crazy here so moving.
Me as well, it pains me to be wasting all the solar power we have as by about dinnertime the batteries are full and all the afternoon sun is just wasted.
By the way, I should have said that I'm not against Solar, just the cost = benefit of a FITTED system and all the stuff to make it viable IN THIS COUNTRY.
I even bought a 100w suitcase panel earlier this year for £200 and found it beneficial both at Quackers and Drax.
Who knows, I MIGHT be persuaded?
I even bought a 100w suitcase panel earlier this year for £200 and found it beneficial both at Quackers and Drax.
Who knows, I MIGHT be persuaded?
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Shrimp
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I agree, Solar does not work in the shade.
Park up in the sun, get batts nice and full then move into the shade to cool down.
Our 200w of Solar keep us going for months at a time in the summer in UK and France. We are on EHU in the winter.
B2B may be very good but who wants to have to drive every day!
Park up in the sun, get batts nice and full then move into the shade to cool down.
Our 200w of Solar keep us going for months at a time in the summer in UK and France. We are on EHU in the winter.
B2B may be very good but who wants to have to drive every day!
MisterB
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- enough to know i shouldnt touch things i know nothing about ....
Perhaps I will add a more detailed comment if the thread reopens, but for anyone thinking it wasn't true, then you're wrong! I visited the site twice with the intention to move or buy a static there. Even to the point where the OP got the keys to some of the static vans and showed me around them. It has (present term used on purpose) the potential to become something special. I won't add any more to this particular thread as it's about solar, but hopefully some reading my comment might see there was truth to the thread about the OP considering buying a campsite.
With regards to the solar debate, we only have 200w on the roof, no B2B, 300ah lithium and 3kw inverter for 240v appliances and have never run short, but as we tend to have 100% battery capacity when we leave home, then it seems to work for us and the way we travel and the locations we go to.
BUT if what we have didn't work for US, then we would change what we have and isn't that the same as everyone does, whether it be solar, battery capacity, sleeping arrangements, TV screen size etc etc etc ...
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MichaelT
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On the Aire we are on you ate lucky to get a pitch let alone a choice in the morning or afternoon
RedFrame
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but 200 nights, (and £1000 is the ABSOLUTE minimum one would pay for the Solar + batteries if one needed to rely upon it for wildcamping,)
PPS. How much did your set up cost,?
You already have batteries so they don't come into the equation, I've just checked online and you can have a 400W panel with victron controller for £300, call it £350 with cables, mountings and fuses/breakers.
We spent two weeks in Germany a couple of years ago, had a lovely time and spent around £26 on Stellplatz fees, I recon the solar on our last van pretty much paid for itself in just that holiday.
Cheers
Red.
Northernraider
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What age is modern?
Not had a dpf filter or a cat on any of my motorhomes. .... well maybe one , the 2008 frankia .
But none of that on the others.
But the ops point was that a b2b would probably do a similar job year round wheras the solar would struggle in part of the year or in shade. I think he's probably got a point if b2b were around first would everyone be going out fitting solar which when you think about it is much more suited to a caravans use
funflair
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It's dead easy to use a lot of power when you don't use gas for the kettle and cooking we went through a good couple of Kwh yesterday, oh we charged the electric bike battery as well
Hopefully we get some sun today
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