Restrictions that result in lack of facilities for motorhomes

[Jaws]

If the Gypsy community had had enough of the Traveller shenanigans why don't they do something about it?
Phil

Quite simply because contrary to the common belief, most Gypsy's are quite peaceable folk who do not actively go looking for trouble, in fact they will usually go out of their way to avoid it

 

[SpeedyDux]

Updating the 1960 Act and passing new legislation to provide a right to stay overnight in a MH other than on a licensed campsite or CL isn't going to be high on the government's priority list. It would also get a lot of flak from the media as a potential Travellers' charter at a time when the government senses that the public wants unauthorised Traveller encampments to become criminalised.

To put this into a wider perspective the UK has 32.5 million cars and only about 8 mllion designated parking spaces for cars. Councils see current car parks as potential development sites. Expecting special overnight privileges for motorhomes is unrealistic. There isn't enough spare land and what little there is has become too valuable. Baltic Wharf C&MC site (in a great location for MH tourism) is living on borrowed time and will close in the near future because the City Council wants to develop the precious land, probably as a new school.

The 1960 Act is basically Planning legislation to regulate and limit campsites and caravans. In the House of Lords debates on this Bill as recorded in Hansard you can see the other problem of the time - a post WW2 housing shortage that resulted in too many unsuitable caravans in private gardens being rented out as living accommodation. The touring caravan as an unsuitable permanent residence has morphed into the mobile home parks that are permitted under the Planning system. Meanwhile the bigger problem today is the illegal "beds in sheds" hidden in overcrowded cities and suburbs.

 

[Simon Select]

Does a family relative have a camp site by any chance

Don't get the post to be honest.....
Yes my parents own a campsite but I don't often holiday in Taunton when I live there?!
Plus I said its pretty unnecessary to need to stop off in the UK as it ain't that big!

 

[Simon Select]

Quite simply because contrary to the common belief, most Gypsy's are quite peaceable folk who do not actively go looking for trouble, in fact they will usually go out of their way to avoid it

Until they take over the local park and ride/ hospital car park or they are on a motorhome forecourt!

 

[romany]

Don't get the post to be honest.....
Yes my parents own a campsite but I don't often holiday in Taunton when I live there?!
Plus I said its pretty unnecessary to need to stop off in the UK as it ain't that big!

the point is anyone connected to campsites is hardly likely to support aires and many use aires to visit an area and not just a stopover

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[Simon Select]

the point is anyone connected to campsites is hardly likely to support aires and many use aires to visit an area and not just a stopover

Yet I have been praising Britstops...................

 

[romany]

If the Gypsy community had had enough of the Traveller shenanigans why don't they do something about it?
Phil

After an incident near us a few years ago where travelers new age type hippies were told to move on by local Romany's and didn't wev'e never had any back here, They did do something about it

 

[romany]

Yet I have been praising Britstops...................

point taken Simon

 

[AXO66]

Just use Britstop.

I don't think we should have an Aires network personally as it would be abused and full of "Itinerants"
The toilets would be disgusting, campers would steal the toilet roll, soap etc etc.
Toilet cassettes and waste tanks would just be dumped anywhere, kids/ pets running around on their own accord.

There are a few community organised ones in scotland, asking for donations, seem to be perfectly o.k.
Whilst acknoweldging there would be occasional abuse , i’m more optimistic about aires.

Mind you always on a look out for a dumped toilet cassette. Might be useful.

 

[Jaws]

Until they take over the local park and ride/ hospital car park or they are on a motorhome forecourt!

I will give you a bet.... It was travellers NOT Gypsy's
Out of all the Gypsy families I know, I dont know of one that travels in a group of more than 4

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[Jaws]

After an incident near us a few years ago where travelers new age type hippies were told to move on by local Romany's and didn't wev'e never had any back here, They did do something about it

But I bet it was quietly,, No massive punch ups in the streets

 

[Simon Select]

I will give you a bet.... It was travellers NOT Gypsy's
Out of all the Gypsy families I know, I dont know of one that travels in a group of more than 4

My mistake!

 

[romany]

But I bet it was quietly,, No massive punch ups in the streets

As the saying goes "ask no questions get no Lies" the Romany's have run the local site in the area for over twenty years with no bother

 

[138go]

I agree about Weymouth, it would be lovely to have an aire near the beach.

We used to stay in Whitby, when motorhomes were tolerated at the far end of the large carpark by the station. When we went to Whitby, we always used to shop, buy coffees, beers and a meal out, as I'm sure many others did. These places are really missing out on our revenue. Just a parking space is often enough, although toilet emptying and fresh water is a bonus. I don't get the toilet, toilet paper and soap reference. We don't really need those facilities provided, as we have a toilet, toilet paper and soap in our motorhomes. Well we do anyway.

 

[Deneb]

Do as you likeys. Another word that

I don't get the toilet, toilet paper and soap reference. We don't really need those facilities provided, as we have a toilet, toilet paper and soap in our motorhomes. Well we do anyway.

Thanks for the offer, I'll be round shortly Just the job

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[Allanm]

It depends on how well they are policed I guess.
Most of the travelling fraternity still use caravans. In the Aires, Caravans are not allowed so that makes a big difference.
Also who and what is allowed? Can HGV's stay in the "UK" version? Can RV's? Can Caravans? What about a pop up tent or someone that camps out of the back of a car? You can imagine the uproar here if one is allowed but not the other.
I personally like using Britstop, good way to find new pubs! Lots are investing in mains hook up and water etc now. Although not that many places you would travel to in the UK would be a big enough distance to warrant an over nighter. Unless you live in Cornwall and want to travel to Scotland!
I also don't see an issue with stopping off at a local Campsite or CL either to be honest.

I don’t understand this obsession about Gypsies or travellers invading everywhere and the constant policing of everything everybody does. Im surprised you have such a negative attitude towards official motorhome parking, I would have thought should be promoting the benefits of motorhoming and supporting those who want to do the same.

The 1960 Caravan act is a red herring. There are aires in the UK that operate successfully. Take Canterbury Park and ride for example.
it is signed as a Motorhome parking place. No caravans and tents allowed ( or HGV’s, buses, horse and carts, etc)
It has a barriered entrance and exit and costs £3.50 per 24 hours ( midnight to midnight)
There is a drain for black and grey waste and tap for drinking water. There are toilets nearby in the main car park.
There have been no traveller incursions. ( or broken barriers) No one vandalises the toilets. No kids/ dogs running around.
As it is a council run facility, the council will ‘Police’ it
Another example is Bury St Edmunds. 5 signed motorhome places in an open car park.
As far as I am aware, this car park was “taken over” by travellers on a couple of occasions but was cleared quickly. The last time was for a local event that was organised by travellers on a nearby council provided traveller site that didn’t have room for all of them. A Barrier would have stopped this.
As for Britstops. We don’t like them. Many you can’t actually get in, they never answer the phone when you need to book ahead ( another downside of Britstops and campsites) and I’m not keen on staying in a pub car park with all the associated noise at closing time.
But I don’t think the UK will ever have a viable Aires system while people have an unhealthy obsession with trying to find all the negatives instead of promoting the positive side

 

[romany]

I don’t understand this obsession about Gypsies or travellers invading everywhere and the constant policing of everything everybody does. Im surprised you have such a negative attitude towards official motorhome parking, I would have thought should be promoting the benefits of motorhoming and supporting those who want to do the same.

The 1960 Caravan act is a red herring. There are aires in the UK that operate successfully. Take Canterbury Park and ride for example.
it is signed as a Motorhome parking place. No caravans and tents allowed ( or HGV’s, buses, horse and carts, etc)
It has a barriered entrance and exit and costs £3.50 per 24 hours ( midnight to midnight)
There is a drain for black and grey waste and tap for drinking water. There are toilets nearby in the main car park.
There have been no traveller incursions. ( or broken barriers) No one vandalises the toilets. No kids/ dogs running around.
As it is a council run facility, the council will ‘Police’ it
Another example is Bury St Edmunds. 5 signed motorhome places in an open car park.
As far as I am aware, this car park was “taken over” by travellers on a couple of occasions but was cleared quickly. The last time was for a local event that was organised by travellers on a nearby council provided traveller site that didn’t have room for all of them. A Barrier would have stopped this.
As for Britstops. We don’t like them. Many you can’t actually get in, they never answer the phone when you need to book ahead ( another downside of Britstops and campsites) and I’m not keen on staying in a pub car park with all the associated noise at closing time.
But I don’t think the UK will ever have a viable Aires system while people have an unhealthy obsession with trying to find all the negatives instead of promoting the positive side

Another is Winchester which has overnight parking for MH maximum 48 hours last time I stopped there also not heard of any problems probably as it has 24 hour camera reinsurance

 

[Lanerboy]

Weymouth Council tried very hard a few years ago to install an Aire but all the local campsites complained and they put it on hold indefinitely.

Lenny there are no local campsites really in Weymouth now nothing close enough for older folk to easily get in to town, waterside holiday park where my static is shut their touring site and filled it with expensive safari tents, there are haven sites but limited touring pitches all too far from town all require a bus journey. One called east fleet but very expensive and again miles from town.
All the cl sites are very poor and again a few miles out of town.
This area that has only just been created well they are still working on the area where the sealife tower was would make a great aire right in the town next to the pavillion theater.

 

[Simon Select]

I don’t understand this obsession about Gypsies or travellers invading everywhere and the constant policing of everything everybody does. Im surprised you have such a negative attitude towards official motorhome parking, I would have thought should be promoting the benefits of motorhoming and supporting those who want to do the same.

The 1960 Caravan act is a red herring. There are aires in the UK that operate successfully. Take Canterbury Park and ride for example.
it is signed as a Motorhome parking place. No caravans and tents allowed ( or HGV’s, buses, horse and carts, etc)
It has a barriered entrance and exit and costs £3.50 per 24 hours ( midnight to midnight)
There is a drain for black and grey waste and tap for drinking water. There are toilets nearby in the main car park.
There have been no traveller incursions. ( or broken barriers) No one vandalises the toilets. No kids/ dogs running around.
As it is a council run facility, the council will ‘Police’ it
Another example is Bury St Edmunds. 5 signed motorhome places in an open car park.
As far as I am aware, this car park was “taken over” by travellers on a couple of occasions but was cleared quickly. The last time was for a local event that was organised by travellers on a nearby council provided traveller site that didn’t have room for all of them. A Barrier would have stopped this.
As for Britstops. We don’t like them. Many you can’t actually get in, they never answer the phone when you need to book ahead ( another downside of Britstops and campsites) and I’m not keen on staying in a pub car park with all the associated noise at closing time.
But I don’t think the UK will ever have a viable Aires system while people have an unhealthy obsession with trying to find all the negatives instead of promoting the positive side

Its not a negative attitude.....
The Aires won't happen, never will. I have said previously, I encourage Brit Stops and think they are great.
With regards to the travellers, I am guessing you have never had to either deal with them or tackle them. I have on several occasions and it isn't a nice experience.
I have said in an earlier post if you read it properly that Britstops and Campsite/CL's are fine. Brit Stop as a network is growing and pubs/ shops/ dealers etc are starting to embrace it and put some basic facilities in place. How have I been negative?

 

[irnbru]

Just out of curiosity what's the percentage of britstops that have a black waste emptying onsite?

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[Lanerboy]

Just out of curiosity what's the percentage of britstops that have a black waste emptying onsite?

I have stayed in a few britstops never had any services at any of them. The problem with some britstops is most of the car parks are way too small for a 7.5 mtr mh, what i have started to do now is look for pubs in areas i go and look at the size of the car park then the menu and if all looks ok i ring them and ask if i have a meal and a few beers can i stay the night on the car park as would be over the limit to drive away and i have only been refused once, stayed at a few nice pubs that are not on britstops books

 

[irnbru]

While I agree pub stopovers are great but they don't exactly help folk touring that need to empty their cassettes. Not too many have toilet dump I think. Aires would therefore be much better. Lots of campsites are closed in winter so thats sometimes not an option.

 

[138go]

Lenny there are no local campsites really in Weymouth now nothing close enough for older folk to easily get in to town, waterside holiday park where my static is shut their touring site and filled it with expensive safari tents, there are haven sites but limited touring pitches all too far from town all require a bus journey. One called east fleet but very expensive and again miles from town.
All the cl sites are very poor and again a few miles out of town.
This area that has only just been created well they are still working on the area where the sealife tower was would make a great aire right in the town next to the pavillion theater.

We stayed for a week on a CL near Weymouth last year. We like Weymouth but we knew what the difficulties would be, so we drove our car down as well. The area you speak of would be perfect for an aire.

 

[Lusky]

in an earlier post if you read it properly

Aggressive, unnecessary,not in the spirit.....

You should know better being a salesman (et al)

 

[Wild Brambles]

One advantage of being in an LDV is that you aren't confused with travellers and gypsies. They have much more expensive vehicles.

The problems with most of the loos in municipal car parks seem to be caused by drunks, druggies and teenagers, and not by motor home owners. Virtually all of the litter is caused by car owners, and delivery van drivers in my opinion.

A lot of the problems could be solved if the gov. introduced a free registration system for full time livers. It would never work though, as they would probably ask for a home address.

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[Simon Select]

Aggressive, unnecessary,not in the spirit.....

You should know better being a salesman (et al)

There is a difference between being aggressive and standing up for yourself.

 

[mitzimad]

i do think small steps would be the way to begin using canterbury as an example maybe we should start with the many park and ride sites . They already have the space and need minimal outlay to provide stopovers .
we have friends in southend we hardly see because there isn't even a campsite within easy reach

 

[ruthiebabe]

Lots of good points here but the main ones to me are as follows :

1. Parking laws - definition of camping v parking should be inline with (eg) France, ie that camping involves setting up shop, putting out equipment, washing lines, etc. Parking overnight short term in a fully self contained vehicle is classified as parking, not camping.
2. Owners of fully self contained motorhomes should have a choice. Many may choose campsites all or some of the time. Others do not and will not pay for full facility campsites when all they require is a legal place to stay (with or without water, waste provision etc) Local authorities are turning away tourism revenue especially from British and Foreign Motorhomers who want minimal facility continental style provision.
3. To answer your Question: Yes we want aires and legal parking spots - we already have campsites, and they will still get business.
4. we also need more water and waste points like on the continent, for a reasonable charge. On the continent sometimes there is the option to pay a campsite to fill up etc, but also bornes at service stations, shopping centres, aires.
5. I agree with those who have already pointed out that barrier style aires can help reduce the fear of aires encouraging the traveller community. They can also make collection of payment easier and can have a more motorhome - only feel with no cars abusing the parking spaces. A wee bit more secure aswell.

 

[Digitalimager]

The British attitude is our own worst enemy. Aires would have limited capacity because authorities see any two MHs or caravans parked closer together than 6 metres as a fire risk/health & safety issue.

The second problem is the attitude of the great British public. "I can do anything I like" no longer seems to be confined to minority sections of our society.

Last year in France, we spent 3 nights in a MH dedicated area on the edge of a Super-U car park, with several other vans. On the Sunday, morning when the supermarket was closed, a large number of modified cars started to arrive in a dignified manner and parked up in neat rows, whereupon the occupants got out and proceeded to have a quiet and civilised picnic. After a couple of hours, they got back in their cars and drove out in an orderly fashion.

Contrast that with our enthusiasts who would likely either be racing around performing donuts and slides or playing their sound systems at maximum volume trying to outdo each other.

The hospital car parks where my wife works used to have entry and exit barriers, and visitors paid for the time used on exit. But they were continually (and I mean continually) being vandalised and broken off,so visitors now have to guess how long they will be staying and pay on arrival.

Translate that to unsupervised aires and they will very quickly become open to all with dumped and burnt-out cars, fly-tipping and all sorts of other anti-social behaviours taking place.

Absolutely spot on. Unfortunately.

 

[Lenny HB]

Owners of fully self contained motorhomes should have a choice. Many may choose campsites all or some of the time. Others do not and will not pay for full facility campsites when all they require is a legal place to stay (with or without water, waste provision etc) Local authorities are turning away tourism revenue especially from British and Foreign Motorhomers who want minimal facility continental style provision.

Lost count of the amount of Dutch, German & French I have spoken to on my travels who won't come to the UK because of the lack of Aires and it's Motorhome unfriendly attitude. Which I fully understand as I can't be bothered with the UK myself, too much like hard work.

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