Petition: Amend PCSC Bill to withdraw power to seize vehicles used as mobile homes

[Lenny HB]

Well not all of us of course, LennyB, think it is a good government

Best we have had for 30 years.

 

[eddie]

To be honest you could be right

Because apart from the fact i happen to own a motorhome i increasingly find i have very little in common with most others on this forum

But this is why Jim doesn't allow Politics to be discussed. The Forum IS about motorhomes, and I doubt that I have much in common with the majority of of other members.

In the real world, I only have a hand full of friends, people that I have a LOT in common with and I have met a lot of people in my life, so having a lot in common isn't, well very common

 

[gus-lopez]

That is certainly one of the main factors. No doubt many of the people of Stockton on Tees borough will welcome it as they have just seen two well kept playing fields trashed by travellers in the past week.

And how will this bill help? They will still arrive,trash the place and leave when requested.The only answer to this is to address the actual culprits, not do the usual and make it all encompassing ,inconveniencing the legal,decent and honest majority who will be the onlyones who will suffer in the end.

, it helps bring in revenue from fines and permits, or a bit of both.

Yes wasn't it Brighton Council caught selling 10 residents permits for every available space?#Scammersrus.

, they will not be interested in 1 or 2 vans minding their one business.

Don't you believe it. Like always they'll pick on the easiest targets.

Yes

Says it all.

But this is why Jim doesn't allow Politics to be discussed.

Problem is 90% of any topics are political.

 

[jockaneezer]

Not read all the posts, but this snippet was in our local rag today. Looky Likies complaining it will infringe on their human rites whilst they go about their lawful business of ripping off pensioners etc !

 

[GJH]

And how will this bill help? They will still arrive,trash the place and leave when requested.The only answer to this is to address the actual culprits, not do the usual and make it all encompassing ,inconveniencing the legal,decent and honest majority who will be the onlyones who will suffer in the end.

The bill, if it becomes law, will enable landowners and police to move people on before they have time to "trash the place". In an earlier post I mentioned that happening to two well kept playing fields in Stockton on Tees in the last week or so. The trashing happened because the people who occupied the fields had time to strew their rubbish and tear up the grass doing doughnuts: https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/boy-seen-driving-van-over-20989219
Legal, decent and honest people will not selfishly camp on land owned by somebody else against the landowner's wishes. It is, therefore, impossible for them to be inconvenienced.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Northernraider]

I have to wonder where the non forward thinkers expect these travellers to go. One thing is for sure they arent going to give up their lifestyle and go live in a house. They will turn up as usual , trash the place they may get moved a little quicker in places with a very large police force but not in areas with a handful of police because they are scared shitless of travellers. So they will just move a few miles along the road every few days wrecking more places ....and will likely head to places they know have less police so more rural villages will suffer more. Thats if the police can tear themselves away from the easy targets like e scooters etc. From articles ive read the police themselves think this bill will make no difference to dealing with the ones its meant to deal with ....it will just make others easy targets of lazy profit making policing.

 

[Jim]

Many of these itinerants have a right to roam the Schengen indefintley, hopefully this Bill will eventually encourage plenty of them to exercise it.

 

[eddie]

I have to wonder where the non forward thinkers expect these travellers to go. One thing is for sure they arent going to give up their lifestyle and go live in a house. They will turn up as usual , trash the place they may get moved a little quicker in places with a very large police force but not in areas with a handful of police because they are scared shitless of travellers. So they will just move a few miles along the road every few days wrecking more places ....and will likely head to places they know have less police so more rural villages will suffer more. Thats if the police can tear themselves away from the easy targets like e scooters etc. From articles ive read the police themselves think this bill will make no difference to dealing with the ones its meant to deal with ....it will just make others easy targets of lazy profit making policing.

Or, here’s a thought, it may make them behave like decent human beings, not trash, crap everywhere, not steal, not threaten people, they arrive, they stay, they’re asked to leave, and the next day they leave, with the place left as they found it

If after a couple of such ‘visits’ on a circuit, through the year, people started to realise that their arrival didn’t mean trouble, people would start to have a more relaxed, laid back attitude to them.

”Oh the Gypsies, their fine, they’ll be gone in a few days”

As it is, the Gypsies have the reputation they have due to what they have done, so you can’t blame the general public for not wanting them

 

[Jim]

One thing is for sure they arent going to give up their lifestyle and go live in a house.

Actually, many thousands of them have already. Reports suggest as many as 90% of the traditional UK itinerants now lives in a house.

 

[Northernraider]

Or, here’s a thought, it may make them behave like decent human beings, not trash, crap everywhere, not steal, not threaten people, they arrive, they stay, they’re asked to leave, and the next day they leave, with the place left as they found it

If after a couple of such ‘visits’ on a circuit, through the year, people started to realise that their arrival didn’t mean trouble, people would start to have a more relaxed, laid back attitude to them.

”Oh the Gypsies, their fine, they’ll be gone in a few days”

As it is, the Gypsies have the reputation they have due to what they have done, so you can’t blame the general public for not wanting them

You've a fine imagination thats for sure

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Northernraider]

Actually, many thousands of them have already. Reports suggest as many as 90% of the traditional UK itinerants now lives in a house.

Probably not the ones that make a mess .....if they do then i hope they move to your neighborhood and not mine as i doubt their attitude will change

 

[Stoosal]

In most cases the difficulty with moving people on is because they are on private property and it is therefor up to the owner of the property to instigate civil proceedings to have them removed not the responsibility of police or council therefore they have no powers. This bill will allow the offence to become a criminal act and therefore allow regulatory bodies to act to remove offenders. It can often take days/weeks to get the appropriate paperwork through courts to allow bailiffs/police/council to act. This bill will hopefully speed this process.

 

[pappajohn]

Seamer horse fair is an annual event with a Royal charter from 1066 or some such long distant date.
Last year and this year it has been cancelled due to covid...has it stopped the travellers? No it hasn't.
They are pitched up on unused (yet) industrial estate roads.
The roads have barriers with chains and have one cubic meter (1 metric ton) concrete blocks across the barriers.
They have cut the chains and dragged the concrete blocks to one side to gain access.
The council, who own the roads, don't bother as the fair is only on (when it is) for two weeks and it takes longer to get eviction notices to move them on.

 

[Jim]

Hasn't stopped it happening or sped up the police ever catching them.

The police are generally cowards unless mob handed and i can see the Itinerants giving them a good run for their money to be honest.

Tam, the word censor is there for good reason. I’ll thank you not to bypass it.

 

[appydaze]

I'm sure a lot of us like to have wee dram when settled for the night. What if your asked to move after that?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wack]

Actually, many thousands of them have already. Reports suggest as many as 90% of the traditional UK itinerants now lives in a house.

Does that mean they live in it permanently or just use it as a base for the winter.

interesting if you go to many seaside resorts and one I went to recently (Southwold) notices were aimed at MoHo's No Cooking No camping etc Nipped in to the local fish and chip shop drove around to the general parking area where these signs were, can you imagine a nimby looking out of thier home seeing a MoHo with people in it eating OMG I can hear the sirens wailing and the traffic wardens now.

Now I know that is a far fetched scenario for the moment but once this law passes are you telling me that it will not be used by those who live by the sea who do not wish to have MoHo's parked up looking at the view and a spot of lunch, lets see what happens I could be wrong (hopefully) or I could be right.

I read the legislation as the land owner has to complain , not Reginald Molehusband who hasn't seen a woman naked since 1985.

That article in the first post is written to wind people up

 

[Littlewheels]

So will the Police change their stance on responding to complaints! I doubt it ,look what happens you phone police inform them someone is parked on your land,police response here’s your crime number ,have a good day that’s the end of it.
They do not respond to burgling,shoplifting under a value of £200 etc etc.And if there is likely to be feisty cuff issues they hold back until it’s over.
They simply will not have time to deal with such complaints unless great numbers take over a village green and so on.

 

[Happy Jim]

So will the Police change their stance on responding to complaints! I doubt it ,look what happens you phone police inform them someone is parked on your land,police response here’s your crime number ,have a good day that’s the end of it.
They do not respond to burgling,shoplifting under a value of £200 etc etc.And if there is likely to be feisty cuff issues they hold back until it’s over.
They simply will not have time to deal with such complaints unless great numbers take over a village green and so on.

Yes, but only if the complainant is also the landowner.

Currently it's a civil matter (ergo of no interest to the upholders of the criminal law), if this Bill goes ahead it then becomes Criminal....and the have to do something)

 

[MisterB]

i think that if any action was taken, then the word would soon spread around the travelling community - that might result in a number of outcomes, including travelling in massive numbers to try to prevent being moved on, or is it too much to hope that some of their community would no longer park on private land without permission?

 

[gus-lopez]

if this Bill goes ahead it then becomes Criminal....and the have to do something)

Yes it is like the magic roundabout .They will do what the poster below states.

,look what happens you phone police inform them someone is parked on your land,police response here’s your crime number ,have a good day that’s the end of it.
They do not respond to burgling,shoplifting under a value of £200 etc etc.And if there is likely to be feisty cuff issues they hold back until it’s over.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Wack]

Yes, but only if the complainant is also the landowner.

Currently it's a civil matter (ergo of no interest to the upholders of the criminal law), if this Bill goes ahead it then becomes Criminal....and the have to do something)

How many criminal acts are committed daily with no police response , it must be thousands , even when a vehicle worth 10s of thousands of pounds is stolen nothing happens, CCTV cameras and ANPR everywhere which has cost millions but none of it to protect us from theft

 

[Northernraider]

Yes, but only if the complainant is also the landowner.

Currently it's a civil matter (ergo of no interest to the upholders of the criminal law), if this Bill goes ahead it then becomes Criminal....and the have to do something)

Or acting on behalf of the landowner ....which covers any national trust , forestry commission carparks etc , local authority carparks.

If you park on an estate in scotland for instance like glen etive i can assure you it won't be the laird himself coming and asking you to move but any employee.

The local police there have virtually nothing to do bar eat donuts ....and have previously not bothered there ass about wildcampers . That wont be the case if forced to respond ....so a knock on the door at any hour and asked to move on will now be a very strong possibility.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Or acting on behalf of the landowner ....which covers any national trust , forestry commission carparks etc , local authority carparks.

If you park on an estate in scotland for instance like glen etive i can assure you it won't be the laird himself coming and asking you to move but any employee.

The local police there have virtually nothing to do bar eat donuts ....and have previously not bothered there ass about wildcampers . That wont be the case if forced to respond ....so a knock on the door at any hour and asked to move on will now be a very strong possibility.

Not sure what the problem is with that, if an ‘officer of the Law‘ asks me to move on I will, sticking your chest out and refusing, is going to guarantee a lock up and potential crushing of vehicle if the new bill becomes law.
Sovereign citizens do tend to get their interpretation of the laws wrong and suffer as a consequence.

 

[Northernraider]

Not sure what the problem is with that, if an ‘officer of the Law‘ asks me to move on I will, sticking your chest out and refusing, is going to guarantee a lock up and potential crushing of vehicle if the new bill becomes law.
Sovereign citizens do tend to get their interpretation of the laws wrong and suffer as a consequence.

The problem is that up till now no one has cared either way ....thats why most vanlife groups etc all quite rightly so say if this bill passes its the start to the end of wildcamping or offsite parking in the uk anywhere.

 

[Otter Spotter]

The problem is that up till now no one has cared either way ....thats why most vanlife groups etc all quite rightly so say if this bill passes its the start to the end of wildcamping or offsite parking in the uk anywhere.

There appears to be a growing vanlife community who by selling their homes and moving full time in their vans stop contributing to the upkeep of services, granted Motor tax is supposed to pay for road repairs, but waste removal and other services are not supported ( No Council tax paid) but, they will still use them, add to the expectation that they can park without permission then tensions will increase over time, so the simple act of asking permission first before parking and moving on when requested without sounding entitled will keep matters calm.
I know I am biased as an ex copper, but I found that if I was treated with respect as I treated others then we both got what we wanted, and interpretation of the Laws was never a black/white matter there was always shades of grey.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Northernraider]

There appears to be a growing vanlife community who by selling their homes and moving full time in their vans stop contributing to the upkeep of services, granted Motor tax is supposed to pay for road repairs, but waste removal and other services are not supported ( No Council tax paid) but, they will still use them, add to the expectation that they can park without permission then tensions will increase over time, so the simple act of asking permission first before parking and moving on when requested without sounding entitled will keep matters calm.
I know I am biased as an ex copper, but I found that if I was treated with respect as I treated others then we both got what we wanted, and interpretation of the Laws was never a black/white matter there was always shades of grey.

Not always easy to ask permission ...and for one or two nights is it really worth the aggro to locate the landowner and ask permission?

I can't comment on your policing record but i have in my life encountered quite a few bored petty police officers and seen plenty video evidence of other folk encountering them too.

Maybe the bill wont affect the odd van parked here and there ...we can only hope it doesnt. But knowing the police preference for easy targets and quick fines i can see it being abused a lot.

Time will tell .....as will we see if it makes a blind bit of difference to the cases its meant to elliminate.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Not always easy to ask permission ...and for one or two nights is it really worth the aggro to locate the landowner and ask permission?

I can't comment on your policing record but i have in my life encountered quite a few bored petty police officers and seen plenty video evidence of other folk encountering them too.

Maybe the bill wont affect the odd van parked here and there ...we can only hope it doesnt. But knowing the police preference for easy targets and quick fines i can see it being abused a lot.

Time will tell .....as will we see if it makes a blind bit of difference to the cases its meant to elliminate.

I understand your concerns, ‘bad Apples’ and all that but with body cams and people’s use of mobiles I don’t think you will have to worry too much.

 

[Clipgate]

Some may remember the Small Faces, Lyrics: "Why learn the words of Fools"
Call for freedom, allow Tyranny if and when state dictates!
Consider it's to control "Them" becomes "You" next.

 

[LesW]

Some may remember the Small Faces, Lyrics: "Why learn the words of Fools"
Call for freedom, allow Tyranny if and when state dictates!
Consider it's to control "Them" becomes "You" next.

Ha Ha... very good

 

[gus-lopez]

, CCTV cameras and ANPR everywhere which has cost millions but none of it to protect us from theft

Exactly.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}