Options being Considered in Fife for the Future of MH Parking - Consultation Paper

[nicholsong]

I guess it's not to do with any extra susceptibility to fire but the fact that people will be sleeping in said vehicles, saying that though there must be a greater risk of fire with the additional gas appliances.

Martin

Well truck drivers cook and sleep in their trucks.

CLs and CS have no spacing restrictions and are authorised by the same clubs that run campsites.

Where is the logic?

 

[Rapido925M]

Part of my response:

Campsites in the UK (but not abroad) enforce a 6m distance between units and this helps with safety in highly flammable tents, whilst creating space for caravanners to erect awnings and park their cars. Motorhomers present none of these requirements. On “aires” and “stellp[latzen” all over the continent MotorHomers co-exist side-by-side, sometimes with barely sufficient space to open a door or a window.

We do not require lots of room, although I am happy to admit that I prefer space around me.

A recommendation from a government parking site for bay-size is 2.4m for cars: can I suggest that 2 widths ie 4.8m would make a suitable size for MH bays and would be easy to mark out?

Gordon

 

[funflair]

Well truck drivers cook and sleep in their trucks.

CLs and CS have no spacing restrictions and are authorised by the same clubs that run campsites.

Where is the logic?

I don't think we will get into the camping vs parking discussion here but for Cl's and CS I thought that they would be governed by whatever is deemed to be good practice by the club they are affiliated to, I am not sure there is a specific law though.

Martin

 

[jongood]

I don't think we will get into the camping vs parking discussion here but for Cl's and CS I thought that they would be governed by whatever is deemed to be good practice by the club they are affiliated to, I am not sure there is a specific law though.

Martin

Don't forget Martin, its in the caravan clubs interest to make alternatives to their sites more difficult.

Well past beer o'clock here btw
Jon

 

[Gaston aires]

The assumption that for every wild camp means a loss to a campsite is way off the mark. When we tour, often for a couple of months, we use a mix of aires, stopovers, and campsites, often to replenish water, dump etc.
Sometimes if we like an area we stay on a campsite for a week or so and make use of ACSI .
Phil

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[maison]

Very interesting read. The report is thorough and clearly states that it is only a minority of motorhomers who foul the areas with waste. There is, as recognised in the report, a growing problem in Fife.

They said that from one car park along there was lost revenue of over £23k, had all the campers used local sites. My feeling, having been to St. Andrews last year, is that local sites would not have the capacity to accommodate all the vans, even should the campers be willing to pay. I stayed on a site and all the touring pitches were taken all week.

It shall be interesting to see the outcome if any, considerable investment is needed in infrastructure before the car parks can be properly regulated.

Can’t comment re Fife but last night in the Scottish Borders we couldn’t find a site that was open or not full. Two sites that were closed for the winter directed us to other sites but they were closed. We really wanted a site last night in order to service the m/h but ended up on a pub site from Camper Contact. The pub was great, excellent quality of food and it was Burn’s Night, but it doesn’t alter the fact that the U.K. is short of proper sites, or Aire type facilities, in winter.

 

[WillH]

Absolutely. I live on the SW300 and have already contacted the relevant authorities regarding the lack of places to empty waste. Their response was to use a campsite, there are simply not enough, especially through the winter months. A village near us has very recently voiced complaints about the dumping of black waste in a forestry car park, notwithstanding the local campsite is closed.

 

[Gellyneck]

Can’t comment re Fife but last night in the Scottish Borders we couldn’t find a site that was open or not full. Two sites that were closed for the winter directed us to other sites but they were closed. We really wanted a site last night in order to service the m/h but ended up on a pub site from Camper Contact. The pub was great, excellent quality of food and it was Burn’s Night, but it doesn’t alter the fact that the U.K. is short of proper sites, or Aire type facilities, in winter.

Did you try the C&MC site at Melrose?

 

[Rapido925M]

Reply from FCCT

Dear Gordon

Thank you for your response in relation to the Options Paper, your detailed feedback is most helpful and I was unaware about BritStops which I will look into. Please don’t hesitate to contact me should you wish to discuss further.

Yours Sincerely,
Robbie Blyth
Head of Operations - Fife Coast and Countryside Trust
Email: robbie.blyth@fifecountryside.co.uk
Telephone: 03451 55 55 55 ext. 444981
Mobile: 07940774065

My BritStops comment was:

Last year my wife and I spent 3 weeks on the Outer Hebrides. We spent £120 on “camping” (approx. £5 per day) including several nights on places with honesty boxes. We also spent £300 on food, stopping almost every day to buy coffee and cakes at local cafes whereas we could easily have made our own drinks and bought cakes at supermarkets: if you give to me then I am likely to give to you.

This attitude is replicated in BritStops, an organisation which lists businesses who are prepared to allow Motorhomes to stay for one night free of charge in the hope, but not expectation, that this will generate more income. Similar schemes operate in countries across Europe and the consensus is that attracting motohomers, who often are fortunate enough to have a considerable disposable income, to a locality is a sound financial investment.

Gordon

 

[tonyidle]

What’s this 6 metre law thing? As far as I am aware it is only the big two that advocate this. I am certainly not aware of it being law. The spaces that my local council provide are just large parking spaces designated for motorhomes only. By mentioning this to councils considering providing us with over nights we are just giving more ammunition to prevent it going ahead.
If it is law how do Craven district council get away with it?

IIRC it is a Fire Service recommendation for campsites. It may not be law but if a camping location determined by a LA requires a Fire Inspection then 6M might become a sticking point.

Here you go - found something:

<Broken link removed>

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[funflair]

So is it 6M or 3M, copied from the Westyorkshire document under touring caravan sites. I would add 3M would seem more sensible to me 6M for aires type parking is too much IMHO.

Martin

A minimum distance of 6 metres should be maintained between other units in separate family occupation, and not less than 3 metres between units in any circumstances. Vehicles and ancillary equipment is permitted within the 6 metres space but 3 metres clear space should always be maintained to restrict fire spread.

 

[glenn2926]

IIRC it is a Fire Service recommendation for campsites. It may not be law but if a camping location determined by a LA requires a Fire Inspection then 6M might become a sticking point.

Here you go - found something:

<Broken link removed>

After working for 30 years for that very brigade and having carried out quite a few of those inspections. There still are and always have been many parts of it that cannot and do not pertain to over night stops for self contained motorhomes. There are also parts that are not adhered to by the big two clubs. Specifically the part where all caravans must be on hard standing which must protrude etc etc.
A lot of the paper is to do with static type sites. For instance the paragraph dealing with rain gutters and fall pipes.
The local to me council that provide the stop over places are in North Yorkshire so probably have their own guidance paper.

The Fire Service haven’t carried out fire safety inspections since around 2005ish (don’t quote me on that) it has been the responsibility of the owner/occupiers to carry out their own fire risk assessment. These risk assessments must be available to the Fire Service if requested. I think the guidance paper is probably to help owners/occupiers carry out their own risk assessment. As with all risk assessments everything must be reasonable and practicable.

However none of this is applicable to what is in reality a car park.

 

[tonyidle]

However none of this is applicable to what is in reality a car park

It is - until it allows overnight occupation. Then in law it is a camping location as pointed out many times by GJH. Thanks for the clarification though. I was simply suggesting that LAs are not known for a casual approach to anything.

 

[bigtwin]

I have just sent my comments through to Robbie Blyth.

The key points I raised were:

• Our needs are simple (safe place each night with rubbish provision, toilet emptying every 4 days or so, water filling/grey emptying every week or so).
• A few enlightened camp site owners allow short visits for a small fee to facilitate the above but that one of the major UK clubs doesnt/wont facilitate this.
• Each night of free camping does not result in a night for night loss of camp site revenue.
• Other councils have made provision (Fylde, Canterbury, Scottish Borders (Hawick) and Craven District Council - hyperlinks to each included) and worth Fife contacting them.
• Pointed out that none of these are constrained by the 6m ‘rule’ and suggested that this probably originated for camp sites and caravans that, unlike MHs, cannot quickly drive off to escape a fire on an adjacent pitch.
• Expressed doubt that a permit scheme would work (at odds with the spontaneous nature if MHing) and asked how it would be applied to hire companies/hirers.

I’ll report back on any feedback to these comments.

Ian

 

[PhilMary]

I doubt the 6mtr rule is "law" as the space between the marked out Motorhome spaces in Skipton are 3inches as in the width of the white lines.
There are always at least two motorhomes parked and during the summer all the spaces were being used. You can bet your bottom dollar that the shops and cafes are, as they say, "well pleased" they were installed.
Phil

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[bigtwin]

I doubt the 6mtr rule is "law" as the space between the marked out Motorhome spaces in Skipton are 3inches as in the width of the white lines.
There are always at least two motorhomes parked and during the summer all the spaces were being used. You can bet your bottom dollar that the shops and cafes are, as they say, "well pleased" they were installed.
Phil

Could I encourage you to send them your thoughts/comments on the paper?

Ian

 

[Camdoon]

I doubt the 6mtr rule is "law" as the space between the marked out Motorhome spaces in Skipton are 3inches as in the width of the white lines.
There are always at least two motorhomes parked and during the summer all the spaces were being used. You can bet your bottom dollar that the shops and cafes are, as they say, "well pleased" they were installed.
Phil

If they do not follow guidance and something happens then they are sued by an ambulance chasing lawyer and liable to prosecution.
"Industry guidance in relation to tents, caravans and motorhome is that units should be pitched at least 6 metres apart to prevent the potential spread of fire."

 

[irnbru]

I sent a nice email a few days ago and not had a reply

 

[denisejoe]

I have just sent an email.

 

[Baileysbus]

I sent a nice email a few days ago and not had a reply

Me too ...... maybe the guy has been inundated with replies ?

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[irnbru]

Me too ...... maybe the guy has been inundated with replies ?

Hopefully.

 

[G-RMPS]

'File not found'

I have responded, once I got the file open. Safari works, while Google doesn't appear to.

 

[jongood]

Reply from FCCT

Dear Gordon

Thank you for your response in relation to the Options Paper, your detailed feedback is most helpful and I was unaware about BritStops which I will look into. Please don’t hesitate to contact me should you wish to discuss further.

Yours Sincerely,
Robbie Blyth
Head of Operations - Fife Coast and Countryside Trust
Email: robbie.blyth@fifecountryside.co.uk
Telephone: 03451 55 55 55 ext. 444981
Mobile: 07940774065

My BritStops comment was:

Last year my wife and I spent 3 weeks on the Outer Hebrides. We spent £120 on “camping” (approx. £5 per day) including several nights on places with honesty boxes. We also spent £300 on food, stopping almost every day to buy coffee and cakes at local cafes whereas we could easily have made our own drinks and bought cakes at supermarkets: if you give to me then I am likely to give to you.

This attitude is replicated in BritStops, an organisation which lists businesses who are prepared to allow Motorhomes to stay for one night free of charge in the hope, but not expectation, that this will generate more income. Similar schemes operate in countries across Europe and the consensus is that attracting motohomers, who often are fortunate enough to have a considerable disposable income, to a locality is a sound financial investment.

Gordon

This sounds at least like Robbie Blyth is open to suggestions, quite promising. I wish I could dive in but just not possible for next 3 weeks.

 

[irnbru]

This sounds at least like Robbie Blyth is open to suggestions, quite promising. I wish I could dive in but just not possible for next 3 weeks.

I know you said about your small screen and WiFi issues but can you not try to type up something to send this week even if you were to add to a draft email little by little, you’ve managed to post on this thread 10 times so if you were to add up words typed you’d get a decent little letter.

PLEASE

It all adds up

 

[funflair]

I know you said about your small screen and WiFi issues but can you not try to type up something to send this week even if you were to add to a draft email little by little, you’ve managed to post on this thread 10 times so if you were to add up words typed you’d get a decent little letter.

PLEASE

It all adds up

She's got you there jongood "bang to rights" just say you have done it we won't tell.

Only kidding, get onto it just a couple of lines of support and appreciation as he will be overwhelmed with good and conflicting advice.

Martin

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[jongood]

I know you said about your small screen and WiFi issues but can you not try to type up something to send this week even if you were to add to a draft email little by little, you’ve managed to post on this thread 10 times so if you were to add up words typed you’d get a decent little letter.

PLEASE

It all adds up

I want to write about the NZ setup but keep having to correct posts. Im i Kandy today so will look for a key4

 

[bigtwin]

I have just sent my comments through to Robbie Blyth.

The key points I raised were:

• Our needs are simple (safe place each night with rubbish provision, toilet emptying every 4 days or so, water filling/grey emptying every week or so).
• A few enlightened camp site owners allow short visits for a small fee to facilitate the above but that one of the major UK clubs doesnt/wont facilitate this.
• Each night of free camping does not result in a night for night loss of camp site revenue.
• Other councils have made provision (Fylde, Canterbury, Scottish Borders (Hawick) and Craven District Council - hyperlinks to each included) and worth Fife contacting them.
• Pointed out that none of these are constrained by the 6m ‘rule’ and suggested that this probably originated for camp sites and caravans that, unlike MHs, cannot quickly drive off to escape a fire on an adjacent pitch.
• Expressed doubt that a permit scheme would work (at odds with the spontaneous nature if MHing) and asked how it would be applied to hire companies/hirers.

I’ll report back on any feedback to these comments.

Ian

I’ve received the following response:

Thank you for your detailed response (most helpful) the comments you have provided and links are most helpful. I look forward to addressing the needs of all service users to our sites.​

​

Ian

 

[G-RMPS]

Reply from FCCT

Dear Gordon

Thank you for your response in relation to the Options Paper, your detailed feedback is most helpful and I was unaware about BritStops which I will look into. Please don’t hesitate to contact me should you wish to discuss further.

Yours Sincerely,
Robbie Blyth
Head of Operations - Fife Coast and Countryside Trust
Email: robbie.blyth@fifecountryside.co.uk
Telephone: 03451 55 55 55 ext. 444981
Mobile: 07940774065

My BritStops comment was:

Last year my wife and I spent 3 weeks on the Outer Hebrides. We spent £120 on “camping” (approx. £5 per day) including several nights on places with honesty boxes. We also spent £300 on food, stopping almost every day to buy coffee and cakes at local cafes whereas we could easily have made our own drinks and bought cakes at supermarkets: if you give to me then I am likely to give to you.

This attitude is replicated in BritStops, an organisation which lists businesses who are prepared to allow Motorhomes to stay for one night free of charge in the hope, but not expectation, that this will generate more income. Similar schemes operate in countries across Europe and the consensus is that attracting motohomers, who often are fortunate enough to have a considerable disposable income, to a locality is a sound financial investment.

Gordon

Interestingly, we too were in the Outer Hebrides last year, for four weeks. We spent £124 on "campsites" and £666 on retail outlets - food/drink, restaurants and other purchases, excluding fuel. I have also passed on this additional data point to Fife.

Cheers...Keith

 

[denisejoe]

Had the following response to my e-mail:

Dear Mr & Mrs xxx

Thank you for your comprehensive response to the Options Paper. The points you make are very helpful and hopefully moving forward we can have a system in operation that meets the needs of the motorhome community and other service users to our sites in Fife.

Yours Sincerely,



Robbie Blyth

Head of Operations - Fife Coast and Countryside Trust

Denise

 

[G-RMPS]

I also just received an acknowledgement from Robbie Blyth. I responded by pointing out that as a retired couple we spend 90 nights a year in our motorhome, spending around £8500 which covers all direct holiday costs and indirect costs such as maintanence, tax/insurance etc. It excludes depreciation. I pointed out that we would potentially spend a much higher percentage of this in the UK in general, and Scotland in particular, if the facilities were more attuned to the needs of motorhomers.

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