No overnighting, what do you do ?

[JJ]

What you are "allowed" to do and what you "can" do (without troubling anyone) are two different things when it comes to "off site" motorhoming.


JJ

 

[Langtoftlad]

What costs, obligations & responsibilities are there for a club or organisation in order for them to grant CL licenses?

For example, could Britstops or perhaps a Brewery be allowed to issue CL status?
...a bit like @Jim can

 

[TinaLes]

I can only think of one place I'd hate to be parked next to more than a noisy pub full of drunks and that's a campsite full of kids and drunks.


Sod that

Hopefully once the pub is closed for the night all the drunks & noisy people will have gone, hopefully leaving you parked up in an empty car park (on private land) for a nice quiet night.
I thought that was the whole idea of the offerings of clubs like Brit Stops, if it were anything less, you would move on assuming you are in a sober disposition that is, so choose carefully, look at reviews that are listed on the Brit Stops book or park4night maybe.
Tam you of all people should know that you cant get a it right every time, as you also have had to move on at times.

What costs, obligations & responsibilities are there for a club or organisation in order for them to grant CL licenses?

For example, could Britstops or perhaps a Brewery be allowed to issue CL status?
...a bit like @Jim can

I always assumed, maybe naively, that it was more down to the discretion of the Pub landlord/manager to allow overnighting in their car park, dont see why they should need any form of licence for that, as signs normally state that they are not responsible for any damage being caused to vehicles, along with the fact that its their car park on private land.

 

[Jim]

For example, could Britstops or perhaps a Brewery be allowed to issue CL status?

Britsops in theory might be able be. You have to be a bonefide recreational club/organisation to get the exemption status though. Something a pub or brewery could not do

 

[Langtoftlad]

Something a pub or brewery could not do

I'm not for a moment suggesting that they would... but why not, if for example they set up a loyalty style 'club', called it a Red Lion Leisure club?
I suspect that most pubs etc are quite happy with the informal status & have no wish to poke the hornets nest...

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[Northernraider]

Hopefully once the pub is closed for the night all the drunks & noisy people will have gone, hopefully leaving you parked up in an empty car park (on private land) for a nice quiet night.
I thought that was the whole idea of the offerings of clubs like Brit Stops, if it were anything less, you would move on assuming you are in a sober disposition that is, so choose carefully, look at reviews that are listed on the Brit Stops book or park4night maybe.
Tam you of all people should know that you cant get a it right every time, as you also have had to move on at times.

I always assumed, maybe naively, that it was more down to the discretion of the Pub landlord/manager to allow overnighting in their car park, dont see why they should need any form of licence for that, as signs normally state that they are not responsible for any damage being caused to vehicles, along with the fact that its their car park on private land.

Yes I've had to move once or twice....And that really has only been less than 5 times I've moved in over 20 years ....3 of those just since last year twice in Spain and once last week in France.

I'm very much glad I hadn't had any alcohol so I could move

 

[Northernraider]

I'm not for a moment suggesting that they would... but why not, if for example they set up a loyalty style 'club', called it a Red Lion Leisure club?
I suspect that most pubs etc are quite happy with the informal status & have no wish to poke the hornets nest...

As with the parking in marinas and harbours etc I think a lot of the time they keep it quiet to avoid all the red tape and beurocracy the council's etc create such as the highly stupid outdated caravan act of 1960.
Because as soon as they try to be legitimate they get objections from those with vested interest.

It's been seen many times.

 

[Jim]

I'm not for a moment suggesting that they would... but why not, if for example they set up a loyalty style 'club', called it a Red Lion Leisure club?

If it were a bonefide recreational club I'm sure they might be able to register. However If the powers that be thought for one moment it was being done to circumvent planning then they would refuse the exemption.

 

[iandsm]

I can only think of one place I'd hate to be parked next to more than a noisy pub full of drunks and that's a campsite full of kids and drunks.


Sod that

That’s very short sighted. You obviously havn’t tried it. Many pubs that allow overnighting are peaceful especially after closing time and unless you pick a dump of a pub it’s not likely you would be troubled by drunks or kids playing loud music from their cars. We have stayed at quite a few and never had a problem, Still that’s fine. More room for others.

 

[Northernraider]

That’s very short sighted. You obviously havn’t tried it. Many pubs that allow overnighting are peaceful especially after closing time and unless you pick a dump of a pub it’s not likely you would be troubled by drunks or kids playing loud music from their cars. We have stayed at quite a few and never had a problem, Still that’s fine. More room for others.

But why would I want to ?

I don't drink very much very often , and if I have to go in to the pub to eat and drink in order to park in their carpark it doesn't suit me.

I prefer to park in a car park without the pub



Or the drink.

So it's not short sighted it's simply knowing like campsites they don't suit me

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[nicholsong]

If it were a bonefide recreational club I'm sure they might be able to register. However If the powers that be thought for one moment it was being done to circumvent planning then they would refuse the exemption.

Well Motorhomefun is a bona fide recreational club we 're-create' wherever we go and we have sporting subsections for cycling, sailing, walking, canoeing etc.

So Jim let's just buy up some land, and we can ask you to set-up a central reservation system.

No?

 

[GJH]

What costs, obligations & responsibilities are there for a club or organisation in order for them to grant CL licenses?

For example, could Britstops or perhaps a Brewery be allowed to issue CL status?
...a bit like @Jim can

Britsops in theory might be able be. You have to be a bonefide recreational club/organisation to get the exemption status though. Something a pub or brewery could not do

I'm not for a moment suggesting that they would... but why not, if for example they set up a loyalty style 'club', called it a Red Lion Leisure club?
I suspect that most pubs etc are quite happy with the informal status & have no wish to poke the hornets nest...

The rules which govern eligibility for exemption are Here.
The one which would probably be most difficult for an organisation such as BritStops to comply with would be "show evidence of experience in running campsites". I don't think this necessarily requires running of licensed sites like the C&CC or CAMC as I should think that a bona fide club which has run rallies at events such as motorhome shows would be able to show the necessary experience.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I suspect if it became an issue & prosecutions happened to damage the Britstop model, I'm sure a tie in with one of the clubs already allowed to issue certificates would be possible.
But at the moment, it really is a law no-one has any interest in applying. Councils have more & better demands on their resources.

 

[iandsm]

But why would I want to ?

I don't drink very much very often , and if I have to go in to the pub to eat and drink in order to park in their carpark it doesn't suit me.

I prefer to park in a car park without the pub



Or the drink.

So it's not short sighted it's simply knowing like campsites they don't suit me

I was just thinking that if you stay at a pub you can usually get a decent meal at reasonable cost, you can have soft drinks if you prefer and many have a tap for fresh water and sometimes toilet emptying facilties which you are unlikely to get in a car park, still, whatever suits.

 

[Beemobile]

Exactly, the choices are there.

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[Khizzie]

Exactly, the choices are there.

Takes all kinds, even those with attitudes...

 

[Khizzie]

I can only think of one place I'd hate to be parked next to more than a noisy pub full of drunks and that's a campsite full of kids and drunks.


Sod that

I can think of only one place as well.. LOL

 

[Northernraider]

I can think of only one place as well.. LOL

France?

 

[GJH]

I suspect if it became an issue & prosecutions happened to damage the Britstop model, I'm sure a tie in with one of the clubs already allowed to issue certificates would be possible.
But at the moment, it really is a law no-one has any interest in applying. Councils have more & better demands on their resources.

I'm sure you are right about councils being too busy with other matters.
I suspect that any action would result from damage (or perceived damage) to the business of a licensed site being caused by an unlicensed site.

 

[Nosmo King]

What you are "allowed" to do and what you "can" do (without troubling anyone) are two different things when it comes to "off site" motorhoming.


JJ

I concur.

I also believe it's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission...

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[JJ]

Here is a sign at Arade that I won't take any notice of...

I plan to add my own sign...

SAYS WHO?​

JJ

 

[PeteH]

I'm sure you are right about councils being too busy with other matters.
I suspect that any action would result from damage (or perceived damage) to the business of a licensed site being caused by an unlicensed site.

As "allegedly" happened over "parking" at Weston Super-mare?.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I suspect that any action would result from damage (or perceived damage) to the business of a licensed site being caused by an unlicensed site.

Technically you're right of course, but how much "damage" is caused to a commercial site by a few occasional motorhomes availing themselves of a landlord hospitality to 'park' overnight? If they have the space, might encourage a pub to open an official CL as an extra revenue stream.

And who knows, someone stopping overnight might discover the area is worth further exploration and thus book into said commercial site for a few days next time.

Win win, & win for common sense.

 

[GJH]

how much "damage" is caused to a commercial site by a few occasional motorhomes availing themselves of a landlord hospitality to 'park' overnight?

I honestly don't know in general.

I do know that a friend opened a CL a mile or so from a main tourist route between major destinations. When he created the site he thought they would get a lot of trade with Motorhomes wanting an overnight stop off site, so put in Hard Standings, good link roads, EHU, water to each pitch, grey water to trees adjacent. The site was 200 yards from an hourly bus service to major towns with the last bus going past at 11.15pm, was on a designated cycle route and 1 mile from the local village with Mini Supermarkets, Butcher, Chemist & Post Office etc. This was somebody who had owned motorhomes for many years so didn't overcharge.
They enjoyed reasonable caravan trade but very few motorhomes wanting an overnight stop. It was suspected that a pub a couple of miles away which started offering free overnight stops for motorhomes might be the reason. Too hard to prove for an individual to take action though.

 

[Northernraider]

I honestly don't know in general.

I do know that a friend opened a CL a mile or so from a main tourist route between major destinations. When he created the site he thought they would get a lot of trade with Motorhomes wanting an overnight stop off site, so put in Hard Standings, good link roads, EHU, water to each pitch, grey water to trees adjacent. The site was 200 yards from an hourly bus service to major towns with the last bus going past at 11.15pm, was on a designated cycle route and 1 mile from the local village with Mini Supermarkets, Butcher, Chemist & Post Office etc. This was somebody who had owned motorhomes for many years so didn't overcharge.
They enjoyed reasonable caravan trade but very few motorhomes wanting an overnight stop. It was suspected that a pub a couple of miles away which started offering free overnight stops for motorhomes might be the reason. Too hard to prove for an individual to take action though.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

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[GJH]

As "allegedly" happened over "parking" at Weston Super-mare?.

Did it?

 

[Langtoftlad]

I honestly don't know in general.

I do know that a friend opened a CL a mile or so from a main tourist route between major destinations. When he created the site he thought they would get a lot of trade with Motorhomes wanting an overnight stop off site, so put in Hard Standings, good link roads, EHU, water to each pitch, grey water to trees adjacent. The site was 200 yards from an hourly bus service to major towns with the last bus going past at 11.15pm, was on a designated cycle route and 1 mile from the local village with Mini Supermarkets, Butcher, Chemist & Post Office etc. This was somebody who had owned motorhomes for many years so didn't overcharge.
They enjoyed reasonable caravan trade but very few motorhomes wanting an overnight stop. It was suspected that a pub a couple of miles away which started offering free overnight stops for motorhomes might be the reason. Too hard to prove for an individual to take action though.

Perhaps he got his business plan wrong... sounds like heavy investment before he knew the MH trade was there... lots on here won't go on "sites"...

Plenty of laws still on our statute books which are effectively obsolete... perhaps this 60 year old law should be one of them?

Should councils really intervene in competition matters (yes, I know they do, but should they?)

 

[Northernraider]

Perhaps he got his business plan wrong... sounds like heavy investment before he knew the MH trade was there... lots on here won't go on "sites"...

Plenty of laws still on our statute books which are effectively obsolete... perhaps this 60 year old law should be one of them?

Should councils really intervene in competition matters (yes, I know they do, but should they?)

That's how I see it , you have the right to start a business and see if you can get custom.

But you can't or shouldn't be able to force people to use it.


It's the same as pay and display carparks for cars , if you can park in the street round the corner for free plenty will do that before they use the carpark.

 

[Langtoftlad]

That's how I see it , you have the right to start a business and see if you can get custom.

But you can't or shouldn't be able to force people to use it.


It's the same as pay and display carparks for cars , if you can park in the street round the corner for free plenty will do that before they use the carpark.

The other side of the coin (and my own argument) is that there's plenty of moans if councils don't provide such facilities ...

I used to think PBoro had got it about right, plenty of parking provision, good access... but presumably to offset cuts in central income, parking charges have gone up & up... inconsiderate & obstructing on road parking increased, resulting in lower footfall in the city... empty shops... lower council income, increased parking fees etc etc.

 

[Langtoftlad]

It's sad, but unsurprising, that no government has noticed the increase in MH'ing and created a national policy to encourage this leisure activity...
...like create an exemption from the 1960 Act to allow appropriate businesses with car parks to have one or two MH spaces...

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