New travel rules to Europe next year!

[Orion]

My understanding is that the person is scanned / fingerprint checked - and the ETIAS documents are checked too.

What I’ve read doesn’t confirm that.

When applying for the ETIAS you have to provide a scan of your passport for approval and thereafter on payment of the fee the ETIAS is linked to the passport electronically:

“ETIAS approval is electronically linked to the relevant passport which then grants the passport holder permission to enter and travel through all Schengen and EU member states and to remain therein for a maximum of 90 days in any 180 day period.”

ETIAS.com

If so then no additional checks at the external EU borders required.

Also, nothing about fingerprints in the application process for U.K. citizens:

ETIAS Apllication

EDIT: Digging a bit deeper and I agree with you that fingerprint scanning will be required on entry. Seems obvious now that the reason the rollout is being delayed is down to the terminals etc. not being in place.

 

[EuroTrotters]

more than happy to pay, adhere to it and just hope it makes europe safer and they develop an app for it.

Same as the people who have been paying similar one off visas in Egypt and other countries for years.

(can we get one imposed for the calais dinghes ?).

 

[Soycd]

oh dear here we go again with the brexit nonsense

True nonsense, though. And if I had a dog it would be even more fun.

 

[Bolti]

I have not travelled on a ferry from Dover, but are EU passport checks not done on French soil as if travelling from portsmouth?
If so, all queues will be on the other side of the water.

 

[L' Hobo]

I think you'll find there has been a very significant increase in the numbers of people travelling in vehicles across the channel since 1973. We all know what will happen, it will be chaos.

There has been an increase in numbers but also computers which we were promised by 'Tomorrows World' "would speed up our lives so much that we would only be working a 3day week".
They added, "our biggest problem would be what to do with our spare time"

I think they got that slightly wrong don't you?

(I seem to think we were still having to get our passports stamped after 1973, maybe I'm wrong???)

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[vzac]

Went to Denver 2018 similar process getting into USA. Had the esta took 2hrs to go through passport control, finger print then retiner check then passport check then esta check, then we had to use a machine to have it all done again. And was asked why we were there. 1plane load, thats about 200 people, airport was quietish, and about 8 lanes open for foreign nationals. And that did not include baggage pick up. Get used to it it's not going to get any easier. Unless you have a rubber dingy.

 

[L' Hobo]

Why is the processing of passengers going to take any longer than it currently does? Presumably the ETIAS will be a digital (scannable) document that is presented along with the passport and will take minimal extra time to validate?

and if they can take ones photograph on a speed camera with the car doing over 70mph, why do we have to wait? With facial recognition, this can be done as we walk into the building??

 

[Orion]

and if they can take ones photograph on a speed camera with the car doing over 70mph, why do we have to wait? With facial recognition, this can be done as we walk into the building??

Unfortunately it looks as if the terminal is similar to the ones currently in use for scanning digital passports/faces at the airports but with the added inconvenience of taking your thumb or fingerprint as well.

 

[georgio]

You get a QR Code stamped on your forehead!

I reckon everyone will end up with one eventually worried ? You should be.

 

[L' Hobo]

I reckon everyone will end up with one eventually worried ? You should be.

or be chipped just like the dogs??

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[Soycd]

and if they can take ones photograph on a speed camera with the car doing over 70mph, why do we have to wait? With facial recognition, this can be done as we walk into the building??

I think the point is that if one has to get out of the vehicle and fumble with a fingerprint recognition machine it's going to take a long time to process people. If you have used a biometric passport system at an airport you'll know what I mean. I avoid them at all costs, they never seem to function properly, or people are unsure as to how to use them. I can't even get the photocopier at work to recognise my fingerprint so who knows what will happen at a border crossing!

 

[L' Hobo]

I think the point is that if one has to get out of the vehicle and fumble with a fingerprint recognition machine it's going to take a long time to process people. If you have used a biometric passport system at an airport you'll know what I mean. I avoid them at all costs, they never seem to function properly, or people are unsure as to how to use them.

I have solved ALL the problems, I now do not go abroad!

Been there, done that for the past 60yrs, I'll let the rest of you have the hassle!

 

[Widge]

Went to Denver 2018 similar process getting into USA. Had the esta took 2hrs to go through passport control, finger print then retiner check then passport check then esta check, then we had to use a machine to have it all done again. And was asked why we were there. 1plane load, thats about 200 people, airport was quietish, and about 8 lanes open for foreign nationals. And that did not include baggage pick up. Get used to it it's not going to get any easier. Unless you have a rubber dingy.

We went to the states in 2016, brilliant we flew from Dublin, they have a departure hall manned by us customs and immigration, everything was done before getting on the plane, we landed at a domestic terminal at newark, within 20mins we were at our departure gate for San Francisco, the price via dublin was also about 900 € cheaper than paris or London.

 

[Brains]

Why is the processing of passengers going to take any longer than it currently does? Presumably the ETIAS will be a digital (scannable) document that is presented along with the passport and will take minimal extra time to validate?

The issue is each person has individually pass through passport control and get ID'ed.
This works in an airport where all people are on foot.

In an Airport if one person gets held up 10 seconds longer than the the next person the flow continues.
In an airport each flight, with 200-400 people has up to 10 desks to process each passenger individually.

This does not work in a ship port where not only are the numbers a lot bigger (1-2,000 people to a sailing) the number of available processing points, for the entire port, not just a single sailing is 6. Not 60 or 600, just 6.

Every person has to exit a vehicle, get individually ID'ed and then get back into the vehicle.
The vehicle can not proceed until all persons are back inside.
All vehicles in the queue behind also can not proceed,
Unless like an airport you have hundreds of of individual queues, for which the port of Dover simply does not have the space.

Very simply put, ETIAS, in it's current form, does not work for vehicles, loaded with people, going through a high volume port.

 

[The Wino]

The issue is each person has individually pass through passport control and get ID'ed.
This works in an airport where all people are on foot.

In an Airport if one person gets held up 10 seconds longer than the the next person the flow continues.
In an airport each flight, with 200-400 people has up to 10 desks to process each passenger individually.

This does not work in a ship port where not only are the numbers a lot bigger (1-2,000 people to a sailing) the number of available processing points, for the entire port, not just a single sailing is 6. Not 60 or 600, just 6.

Every person has to exit a vehicle, get individually ID'ed and then get back into the vehicle.
The vehicle can not proceed until all persons are back inside.
All vehicles in the queue behind also can not proceed,
Unless like an airport you have hundreds of of individual queues, for which the port of Dover simply does not have the space.

Very simply put, ETIAS, in it's current form, does not work for vehicles, loaded with people, going through a high volume port.

Unless you have a separate stop for the scanner. If it doesn't work it will be altered so it does or delayed. Hopefully it will be introduced at a time of lowish demand like the new year. We're going to have to wait and see.

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[Brains]

Unless you have a separate stop for the scanner. If it doesn't work it will be altered so it does or delayed. Hopefully it will be introduced at a time of lowish demand like the new year. We're going to have to wait and see.

I agree, the issue is where do you put very large the "separate stop" facility ?

The only locations found so far are Manston Airport, Sandwich/Deal area, or Sellindge/Westenhanger area.
All of which are many miles from Dover.

So some sort of multi-mile secure corridor would also need to be constructed from the customs area into the port.

As Dover itself is surrounded by high hills and cliffs, there is no location anywhere closer.
The other option would be to move port operations from Dover to Folkstone &/or Ramsgate.
With Shearness for freight

 

[Tonks]

Agreed - my comment was not intended as a criticism. Just that it is likely to add to port delays for a while at least.

It actually speeds things up once working properly though I agree it may delay things a bit while people get used to it. I used to travel through Chicago multiple times a year. Once the auto passport gates/controls were introduced I would think it often approximately halved the time taken to queue to get through to baggage reclaim. I once stood in line there at a busy arrivals time and spent my time waiting calculating that the people at the back of the line were likely to be waiting for five hours to reach the desk.

 

[nicholsong]

It actually speeds things up once working properly though I agree it may delay things a bit while people get used to it. I used to travel through Chicago multiple times a year. Once the auto passport gates/controls were introduced I would think it often approximately halved the time taken to queue to get through to baggage reclaim. I once stood in line there at a busy arrivals time and spent my time waiting calculating that the people at the back of the line were likely to be waiting for five hours to reach the desk.

One advantage of travelling Business Class, partcularly to USA was that one was off the aircraft early and into the immigration queue.

Very frustrating though if two flights had just arrived from Latin America before you got to the queue.

I once was transiting Boston airport going to Canada, but then there was no transit lounge, so when asked why I wanted to enter 'Merica, my answer of 'I don't' got a frosty look, till I explained that they should have a Transit area.

One of the easiest ways of flying into the USA is from the major airports in Canada, like Toronto and Montreal, where just after check-in you are handed over to US immigration and cleared there, so no queue after landing. The same system as on Dover-Calais and vice-versa.

 

[tonyidle]

It actually speeds things up once working properly though I agree it may delay things a bit while people get used to it. I used to travel through Chicago multiple times a year. Once the auto passport gates/controls were introduced I would think it often approximately halved the time taken to queue to get through to baggage reclaim. I once stood in line there at a busy arrivals time and spent my time waiting calculating that the people at the back of the line were likely to be waiting for five hours to reach the desk.

I think the big difference between a sea and air port is that the former has vehicles queueing each of which has to stop whilst everyone in it exits for the scan then returns to move on.

 

[gus-lopez]

They are not doing the exit car bit, but they are checking each and every vehicle and asking questions and checking each and every passport.

The ships start loading 3.5hrs before departure

You have about 40 minutes at dover between docking ,offloading ,loading ,departure . they need to be able to institute the checks in that time or less.

My understanding is that the person is scanned / fingerprint checked - and the ETIAS documents are checked too.

If you have never done finger prints it will create a bottleneck. here you have to roll index finger from left to right once on the scanner.

Do you think there will be special lanes for us, or will we be stuck behind those doing photos and fingerprints?

Hopefully otherwise I will be using the eu queue

Digging a bit deeper and I agree with you that fingerprint scanning will be required on entry. Seems obvious now that the reason the rollout is being delayed is down to the terminals etc. not being in place.

as above if it has to be rolled rather than placed it will create problems with people not understanding.

I have not travelled on a ferry from Dover, but are EU passport checks not done on French soil as if travelling from portsmouth?
If so, all queues will be on the other side of the water.

No all checks are done in the Uk by the french as are all Uk checks done in France when returning.

When I arrived at dover the other day the french border were the fisrt stop.soon as he saw residency cards on top of passporst he handed the whole lot back without even opening anything. Next up just waved through Uk border security & on to check in. doubt it was much over 30 seconds-.

I avoid them at all costs, they never seem to function properly,

Yes ;I've never had one work

All vehicles in the queue behind also can not proceed,

hopefully there will be seperate queues for those anointed

The other option would be to move port operations from Dover to Folkstone &/or Ramsgate.
With Shearness for freight

should have been done 50 years ago.

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[scotzsue]

Not looking forward to this, have very loose/mobile skin on my fingers, my phone struggles would imagine the scanner at a port or airport would be the same.

 

[Kups]

ETIAS has been officially delayed until "the end of 2023" Don't hold your breath, more like 2024 at the earliest!

Broken Link Removed

 

[nicholsong]

ETIAS has been officially delayed until "the end of 2023" Don't hold your breath, more like 2024 at the earliest!

Broken Link Removed

Follows our mantra in BAA(airports) Planning Dept. " No plan survives reality"

 

[busby]

There has been an increase in numbers but also computers which we were promised by 'Tomorrows World' "would speed up our lives so much that we would only be working a 3day week".
They added, "our biggest problem would be what to do with our spare time"

I think they got that slightly wrong don't you?

(I seem to think we were still having to get our passports stamped after 1973, maybe I'm wrong???)

According to Tomorrow's World many years ago we would all be driving cars that can fly by now so no need for ferries..BUSBY.

 

[Niall B]

It depends whether the Irish passport holders primary place of residence is. If it is the Irish Republic, no. If it is the UK, yes.

Firstly, no such country as the Irish Republic, it’s Ireland. Secondly as an Irish citizen I have the right to free movement within the EU regardless of where I reside and my spouse has the right to accompany me. No need for a visa.

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[jumar]

Do you think there will be special lanes for us, or will we be stuck behind those doing photos and fingerprints?

I jolly well hope so..we are part of the EU afterall...,,,,

 

[The Wino]

Firstly, no such country as the Irish Republic, it’s Ireland. Secondly as an Irish citizen I have the right to free movement within the EU regardless of where I reside and my spouse has the right to accompany me. No need for a visa.

But what happens then if you travel together and you return leaving her there that leaves her in Schengen with no visa?. Surely she will still need the visa. Also presumably if they bring in fingerprint id for entry to the Schengen area you will both still need to go through the fingerprint id even if from an EU country outside Schengen.

 

[Niall B]

Firstly, no such country as the Irish Republic, it’s Ireland. Secondly as an Irish citizen I have the right to free movement within the EU regardless of where I reside and my spouse has the right to accompany me. No need for a visa.

But what happens then if you travel together and you return leaving her there that leaves her in Schengen with no visa?. Surely she will still need the visa. Also presumably if they bring in fingerprint id for entry to the Schengen area you will both still need to go through the fingerprint id even if from an EU country outside Schengen.

If I forget to bring her back a lack of a visa will be the least of my worries.

 

[The Wino]

If I forget to bring her back a lack of a visa will be the least of my worries.

I think I would be in a similar situation if I did the same! but presumably there will be trips for some where one person out of a couple plans to return before the other. The new system I would have thought would require every citizen of a third country to get a visa for that eventuality but the days in Schengen not count towards the 90 days if accompanied.

 

[Trevor Wbm]

What if you don’t have fingers and are camera shy.

Presumably you won't have a passport, so will be unaffected.

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