Need advice with recently purchased 2005 motorhome

[ItaMotorhomer]

Hello

Last week we collected our new to us 2005 Ci Cipro Garage Motorhome

As we drove it home the passenger side electric window & mirror stopped working as well as one of the rear indicator.

On the next day I also noticed that the main roof skylight was cracked & a corner missing.

So we contacted the dealer who agreed for us to take it to our local Motorhome repairer to get a quote & hopefully fix all the faults/issues (under the 3 months warranty).

They were happy with the quote provided to repair the window/mirror & indicator but didn’t accept the £900 quote to replace the heki 700x500 skylight.

The garage alighted that the high quote was due to the fact that there’s al lot labouring involved to remove the current one as it’s sealed & then found the entire roof it’s been painted with something they even weren’t sure of what it is exactly (see photos)

The garage has made me worry so much as they stated that it looks like something that is used to repair cracked shower tray & baths and if that’s the case it could be there to mask something underneath

Plus they also alighted (I didn’t notice this ) the fact the rear panel it’s swallowed in one area. Not sure what caused this either.

THEIR ADVICE WAS, SINCE I ONLY HAD IT FOR A WWEK TO TAKE IT BACK AND ASKED FOR A FULL REFUND .

Now we knew buying a 18 year Motorhome wouldn’t come in pristine conditions and it would have its own little problems etc but as this is our first van we didn’t really know either what to look out for. That’s why we decided to buy from a dealer rather then private.

Just need some advice from you more expert Motorhome owners.

• Does anyone know what the material used on the roof and why could it be applied ?
• the back panel, what caused this ?

ALL IN ALL WHAT WOULD YOU DO ?

 

[ItaMotorhomer]

A few more points, Auto only avalible on Fiat in LHD until the X250 in 2006 not many motorhomes were produced on the X250 until 2007 then the auto (Comformatic) only on the 3 Lt which is not practical at 3500 kg, I think it was around 2012/2013 it was available on the 2.3 Lt.

Nearly all Mercs impossible to run at 3500 kg.

So what you suggest that we abandon the idea of the auto box?

The ci Cipro garage 2005 on the Mercedes was auto (SprintShift) and weighted at 3030kg (with half tank of fuel no passengers).

I’m aware theres to add water, 1/2 tank of fuel, 2 dogs & possibly more travelling kit but I thought i we were to travel without water the payload would have been adequate?

Now not sure if the weight would be same in the similar Burstner T star 695 (Mercedes base).

What would you suggest ?

Thank you again for every comment and support

 

[Lenny HB]

So what you suggest that we abandon the idea of the auto box?

The ci Cipro garage 2005 on the Mercedes was auto (SprintShift) and weighted at 3030kg (with half tank of fuel no passengers).

I’m aware theres to add water, 1/2 tank of fuel, 2 dogs & possibly more travelling kit but I thought i we were to travel without water the payload would have been adequate?

Now not sure if the weight would be same in the similar Burstner T star 695 (Mercedes base).

What would you suggest ?

Thank you again for every comment and support

The Ci is a budget van they tend to be very light.

The Burstner will be a lot heavier the quoted MIRO will be for a basic van.
With German vans you can't buy one as a basic spec you have to have the chassis/komfort pack which will weigh anything from 40k to 100kg. Then things like large fridge & oven are extra, another 20 kg you can probably add another 50 kg for other accessories, plus an awning another 40kg.
Then add dealer/owner fitted extras like 2nd battery, TV etc., solar panels plus other bits and pieces probably another 50 kg.

On German vans the MIRO is normally quoted allowing for, driver at 75kg, 20 Lt water, 90% fuel, 1 x 11kg Aluminium gas bottle.

So fitting 2 x 13 kg steel gas bottles will lose you another 35kg.

Also that Burstner is over 7m very few vans of that size can be run at 3500kg particularly on a Merc. General rule of thumb if you want to stay under 3500kg stick with vans under 7m.

 

[ItaMotorhomer]

The Ci is a budget van they tend to be very light.

The Burstner will be a lot heavier the quoted MIRO will be for a basic van.
With German vans you can't buy one as a basic spec you have to have the chassis/komfort pack which will weigh anything from 40k to 100kg. Then things like large fridge & oven are extra, another 20 kg you can probably add another 50 kg for other accessories, plus an awning another 40kg.
Then add dealer/owner fitted extras like 2nd battery, TV etc., solar panels plus other bits and pieces probably another 50 kg.

On German vans the MIRO is normally quoted allowing for, driver at 75kg, 20 Lt water, 90% fuel, 1 x 11kg Aluminium gas bottle.

So fitting 2 x 13 kg steel gas bottles will lose you another 35kg.

Thank you so much that’s a great advice

If it was your money with our requirements what would you be looking to buy or suggest?

It’s a fiat chassis a better option perhaps with a manual box ?

Stick to a German model ?

We’ve seen a Burstner solano T695 would you say this would be better then the Tstar 695 on Mercedes ?

Thanks again

 

[HKF]

Fair game to them, that's why they have good reviews.

Don't be fooled. It's possible that they only want easy money and, if someone puts up a fight, they settle quickly and move on. Reviews can easily be bought online, too!!

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[HKF]

UPDATE

We’re now glad to confirm that after multiple emails & us dropping the Motorhome back to Rove Mansfield last week, today we have received a full refund.

Thank you everyone for your support and invaluable advice!

a further post will follow as we carry on with our search, this time with al lot more knowledge & a big lesson learned!

Absolutely fantastic news!!! I'm so happy for you Wishing you all the best for your next purchase. Make sure that you put at least £100 of it on a credit card, then you'll have the benefit of Section 75 cover (see my post further up this thread)

 

[our poppy llll]

Hi

Thanks fir your input and reply

See my previous comment, I have received a full refund today.

So yes we’ll be looking elsewhere with a lot more knowledge now and a big lesson learned.

I guess I’ll be also looking at different make (to no fault on the Ci). I think I’d be going for a German built, due to our budget I’ve done a bit of research in the past few days and they seem or should be of better built quality and hopefully less chances of damp/problems .

Really great that you got refunded. The main thing you need to check is the cleanliness of the MOHO and mileage. Any MoHo is good if it’s been looked after, a house proud person will keep the problems at bay. If the seller has a spotlessly clean house and it extends into a MoHo you are on a winner, check the service schedules if it’s been serviced and MOT’d every year, and had regular habitation checks, you are sure it’s a good motor.
If there are several repair bills over the years, this is good, it means the owner has looked after it, check the tyres, if they are new, then why spend lots of money on new if you are selling it? Maybe there’s problems with tracking. Turn the engine over, yourself. Does it start immediately? Check the oil cap. It should not be spotlessly clean but it should not have a brown scum in the cap. It should smell of warm oil.
Listen to the engine, a Fiat runs smoothly, a Ford has a little vibration but steady, unusual noises means run a mile.
Walk with a bounce in your feet, if the floor is spongy, water ingress has caused the laminate in the wood to separate. Run a mile, yes it’s cheap to repair, but what is causing it. It seems to me that great used Moho’s have around 3-5000 miles a year for working families, 6-7500 for retirees and 10-12,000 for the adventurous old farts like the wife and me. We bought April 4th 2023 we have 7300 on the clock already… in 5 years that will be 60-70k but my Kon Tiki will look like new.
A well looked after and well used Moho is priceless they can last your lifetime. Do not be afraid to ask questions then in your head question the answers, if it’s too good to be true, it’s not true. I hope you get a great Moho and enjoy using it. I’m packed ready to go again… we are off next Thursday to Spain.. whooo hoooo, can’t wait..

 

[rosalan]

A rather odd addition to the advice is, use your nose! Open every cupboard and enclosed area and sniff. It should smell of wood, any slightly stale smell can indicate damp. Then it would be worth using a damp meter with prongs, everywhere or pay for a habitation check.
I wandered around one yard and noticed the smell of aftershave, nice smell but opening one overhead locker I found a different smell, sour.
I am so delighted you have had a second chance and the benefit of hearing from so many members, it makes the subs worthwhile.

 

[starquake]

Great news on refund. And personally we did end up with a manual after wanting an auto. Less to go wrong, less weight, more payload. It's a no brainer (in our opinion). We also found out all the layouts we wanted and preferred most of all were ONLY available in the Peugeot chassis which is also only available in manual in the years of production we were interested in.

(And we drove autos then electric for 12+ years before buying a manual MH). It took all of 10 mins to get used to manuals again then it was fine.

I'm not trying to say "don't buy an auto" but our experience of our 6 month seach was you get rather less for your money as the auto box adds a substatial premium.

 

[peterc10]

See you have put a wanted ad in the Classified ads on this forum. Maybe better to widen your choices by not limiting them to just two motorhome models.

Also have you seen that somebody is selling a Ci in the classifieds that seems to match your requirements and it is an auto and seems to be in your price range.

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[HKF]

See you have put a wanted ad in the Classified ads on this forum. Maybe better to widen your choices by not limiting them to just two motorhome models.

Also have you seen that somebody is selling a Ci in the classifieds that seems to match your requirements and it is an auto and seems to be in your price range.

I think if I'd just been through that nightmare, the last thing I'd want to do would be to buy privately. Don't get me wrong, I know many MHs are bought privately without any hitch at all, ours included, but if I'd been stung by a bad deal with my first MH and been very, very lucky to get my money back, I'd want to buy through the trade to take advantage of a Section 75 by paying at least some of the cost on a credit card and have the protection of the Sale of Goods Act. Imagine if the OPs prior purchase had been made privately. He'd still be stuck with the MH with no redress available to him at all. Once bitten twice shy. My advice would be to buy through a more reputable dealer and one who takes credit card payments.

Sale of Goods Act - Which?

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 has now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but you may be able to claim under it if goods you bought on or before 30 September 2015 become faulty.

www.which.co.uk

Section 75 refunds

Section 75 protects your purchases over £100 if you use a credit card. This MoneySavingExpert guide tells you how to reclaim if something goes wrong.

www.moneysavingexpert.com

 

[peterc10]

I think if I'd just been through that nightmare, the last thing I'd want to do would be to buy privately. Don't get me wrong, I know many MHs are bought privately without any hitch at all, ours included, but if I'd been stung by a bad deal with my first MH and been very, very lucky to get my money back, I'd want to buy through the trade to take advantage of a Section 75 by paying at least some of the cost on a credit card and have the protection of the Sale of Goods Act. Imagine if the OPs prior purchase had been made privately. He'd still be stuck with the MH with no redress available to him at all. Once bitten twice shy. My advice would be to buy through a more reputable dealer and one who takes credit card payments.

Sale of Goods Act - Which?

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 has now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015, but you may be able to claim under it if goods you bought on or before 30 September 2015 become faulty.

www.which.co.uk

Section 75 refunds

Section 75 protects your purchases over £100 if you use a credit card. This MoneySavingExpert guide tells you how to reclaim if something goes wrong.

www.moneysavingexpert.com

I think with all the advice he has been given in this thread he will be in a much better position to know what he needs to check before buying.

 

[HKF]

I think with all the advice he has been given in this thread he will be in a much better position to know what he needs to check before buying.

Of course, that may be so. I was just giving my point of view and how I'd feel

 

[PaulW2]

It’s a fiat chassis a better option perhaps with a manual box ?

Stick to a German model ?

I think probably yes on both counts. I previously had an Iveco with an Agile auto - same concept as the Comfortmatic. Would prefer not to have similar. It was terribly temperamental and given to panic attacks (maybe a slightly different menu of problems). My new Fiat van is a manual.

A proper torque converter auto, as found on the latest Fiats, would be a different matter.

 

[rosalan]

On a purely personal view. Of the less than exotic (expensive) vans available I would be looking at any of the Hymer group or their cut price variants, Adria, Pilote group, Rapido or Auto Sleeper if you wish to buy British. There are many more which did not come to mind immediately. Have fun looking!

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[HKF]

On a purely personal view. Of the less than exotic (expensive) vans available I would be looking at any of the Hymer group or their cut price variants, Adria, Pilote group, Rapido or Auto Sleeper if you wish to buy British. There are many more which did not come to mind immediately. Have fun looking!

I thought Pilote were French, manufactured in France and Germany?

 

[Lenny HB]

Thank you so much that’s a great advice

If it was your money with our requirements what would you be looking to buy or suggest?

It’s a fiat chassis a better option perhaps with a manual box ?

Stick to a German model ?

We’ve seen a Burstner solano T695 would you say this would be better then the Tstar 695 on Mercedes ?

Thanks again

The Burstner is a nice van, Merc or Fiat comes down to personal choice. Both are over 7m so will be difficult to run at 3.5t, the Fiat is probably just doable if you travel light.
As I said before the quoted payload is not realistic as it is only for the very basic van which no one buys.

As you are buying from a dealer get them to put the vans on a weighbridge you need axle weights as well as gross.

 

[The Coops]

I thought Pilote were French, manufactured in France and Germany?

Were made in Strausberg on the French /German Border

 

[ItaMotorhomer]

if any of you had to pick a best manufacture between the years of 2005 & 2009 what would it be ?

I know there are lots of different factors involved & person opinions, but I’d be interesting to hear and see what people think?

 

[Lenny HB]

if any of you had to pick a best manufacture between the years of 2005 & 2009 what would it be ?

I know there are lots of different factors involved & person opinions, but I’d be interesting to hear and see what people think?

Layout & converter is more important than base vehicle. No point in having a chassis you like if the layout is not very useable and the conversion quality is rubbish.

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[ItaMotorhomer]

Layout & converter is more important than base vehicle. No point in having a chassis you like if the layout is not very useable and the conversion quality is rubbish.

Oh Yes! a very aware of that thank you

I was just asking (on the converter side) to see what people experience, feedbacks & preference as I find it very interesting and we the hope that it may be useful to someone too?

Cheers

 

[Lenny HB]

Had 3 Fiats done over 100,000 miles in them with only minor problems.

 

[ItaMotorhomer]

Had 3 Fiats done over 100,000 miles in them with only minor problems.

All 3 same converter ?

 

[peterc10]

if any of you had to pick a best manufacture between the years of 2005 & 2009 what would it be ?

I know there are lots of different factors involved & person opinions, but I’d be interesting to hear and see what people think?

Hymers from that period have a good reputation for being well built. Many are still on the road. But they may be on the heavy side.

Have a look at the B544 that dawsey is selling in the classified section. And he has added some modern goodies.

Don't worry too much about mileage. Motorhomes are built on commercial chassis and are good for hundreds of thousands miles. Main check is rust and fan belt (latter if its a Fiat),

 

[Barclaybasher]

Layout is my first consideration.

I drive automatic cars out of preference but have only had manual motorhomes.

Always check MOT history - not just for mechanical issues but for mileage - year on year for usage.

Very low mileage on an older MH is not usually a good thing.

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[Lenny HB]

All 3 same converter ?

Yep all Hymers but that is irrelevant to the chassis side.

 

[Nanniemate]

Layout & converter is more important than base vehicle. No point in having a chassis you like if the layout is not very useable and the conversion quality is rubbish.

Oh Yes! a very aware of that thank you

I was just asking (on the converter side) to see what people experience, feedbacks max preference as I find it very interesting and we the hope that it may be useful to someone too?

Cheers

Lenny HB buys shiney new vans , layout is important. But on an older van if the base vehicle is not sound. (Maintained engine. Solid chassis (rust awareness ) having a pretty inside won't be any good if the vehicle is not road worthy or a money pit. (All vans are money pits ) just depends upon where you want to spend the money.

I bought a 2006 5 years ago . On about £1200 in ongoing maintaince/repairs
Which is what I would expect on vehicle of that age .it included
Timing belt and water pump
New turbo
4 new tyres
And servicing & mots
On top of that
Solar panels
Refillable gas
£1100

Habitation bits
New tap
New to me sink
Back locker fixed
Water leaks various
Now all fixed thanks to help if funster family . Ebay and caravan breakers
Approx £300

So in 5 years £2600 I've read on here expect to pay out 10% extra for repair on purchase
In the region of 10,000 miles this year alone
So its all relative

Try to hold some cash back as there will be some repairs.

Someone after I bought it said vans were for fun just get on with it. And that has been invaluable. As when things go wrong or breaks I don't get up set or stressed. Or count how much it costs

Lenny HB advice amongst others has been invaluable to me as my Dad's no longer here to ask

 

[ItaMotorhomer]

Lenny HB buys shiney new vans , layout is important. But on an older van if the base vehicle is not sound. (Maintained engine. Solid chassis (rust awareness ) having a pretty inside won't be any good if the vehicle is not road worthy or a money pit. (All vans are money pits ) just depends upon where you want to spend the money.

I bought a 2006 5 years ago . On about £1200 in ongoing maintaince/repairs
Which is what I would expect on vehicle of that age .it included
Timing belt and water pump
New turbo
4 new tyres
And servicing & mots
On top of that
Solar panels
Refillable gas
£1100

Habitation bits
New tap
New to me sink
Back locker fixed
Water leaks various
Now all fixed thanks to help if funster family . Ebay and caravan breakers
Approx £300

So in 5 years £2600 I've read on here expect to pay out 10% extra for repair on purchase
In the region of 10,000 miles this year alone
So its all relative

Try to hold some cash back as there will be some repairs.

Someone after I bought it said vans were for fun just get on with it. And that has been invaluable. As when things go wrong or breaks I don't get up set or stressed. Or count how much it costs

Lenny HB advice amongst others has been invaluable to me as my Dad's no longer here to ask

Great comments thank you for the input

 

[ItaMotorhomer]

used Motorhomes are not cheap (anymore)

I’m very aware of problems with the engine/chassis side of things . Like you’ve said as I’m potentially looking at 15/20 year old van I’m very aware of rust, engine & gearbox issues etc etc…

Most importantly I’m NOW VERY aware of damp problems so I’m trying to see if there a possibility of choosing a converter which (potentially) was better built with (potentially) less risks of water ingress/damp then

Hope it all make sense

 

[Lenny HB]

Most importantly I’m NOW VERY aware of damp problems so I’m trying to see if there a possibility of choosing a converter which (potentially) was better built with (potentially) less risks of water ingress/damp then

Of the mid priced vans Carthago are probably the best regarding damp, as they have always had aluminum internal walls and no timber in the wall construction & GPR floors.

Hymer are pretty good as no timber inside the walls but the inner walls are timber, if water does get in it doesn't do any damage. GRP floors not until about 2012 and only on new models. Can get a soft floor on the underside behind rear wheels especially if no mud flaps but easy to repair. Internal aluminum walls not until new models from 2016.

Other Hymer group vans are pretty good but do have timber construction until recently.

N&B (another Hymer group van) are timber free but quite a bit more expensive so would probably mean buying an older van.

Frankia have a good rep, French but built in Germany again fairly expensive.

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[Boringfrog]

UPDATE

We’re now glad to confirm that after multiple emails & us dropping the Motorhome back to Rove Mansfield last week, today we have received a full refund.

Thank you everyone for your support and invaluable advice!

a further post will follow as we carry on with our search, this time with al lot more knowledge & a big lesson learned!

So pleased everything got sorted in the end.