Lithium? The big con?

[Steve and Denise]

haganap you may have to convert your Tesla to lead acid as well then

 

[Verteuil Man]

I am glad this subject has been brought up. From what I have read people expect farnto much from lithium batteries, inverters and solar panels. IMHO they sit somewhere between the sales hype and lead acid batteries.
This is an interesting watch.

 

[monzer]

I'm no expert but is it possible one or more of your batteries is faulty.....

 

[Neckender]

My van is only a lowly VW T6.1 but I’ve fitted 200ah lithium ( ecoworthy ) batteries, 50 amp Victron dc to dc charger, 1500 watt inverter pure sine ( Chinese ) total under £1000 and it’s ample for our usage, wouldn’t go back to lead acid if it was free.

 

[Steve and Denise]

It’s quite funny it’s all about pints and quarts older people on here will relate to this

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

I'm no expert but is it possible one or more of your batteries is faulty.....

View attachment 995017

That doesn't mean anything mine says 0.02v.

 

[monzer]

That doesn't mean anything mine says 0.02v.

Yours are definitely gone then

 

[jumar]

Or am I expecting to much,

Or am I in the dark? No literally "I'm in the dark"

So I must be doing something wrong.....maybe I'm reading my stats wrong.

Bear in mind, I've been motorhoming for 20 plus years. My set up prior to this van was simply for 10 years, two x 120 amp batteries and an effoy, nothing more nothing less.

My set up on my new van that we've had since March is 3 x 110 victron lithium batteries,3 kw victron inverter charger, 200w of solar no B2B smart alternator. Never ever needed to think about power before, most places we stay a couple of nights, nikki uses hair dryer and we cook with an air fryer without issue.

We came away Friday, stopped the night in Stratford upon Avon, no hook up, arrived fully charged, lived our best lives and had an air fryer meal. I noticed we had hammered the batteries a bit, I noticed I was only putting in about 20-30 amps and the journey from Stratford to Portsmouth wouldn't be enough time arrive fully charged. I turned off the fridge, managed to get the charging rate up to 40 amps and arrived at Portsmouth with 98 percent battery.

We have stayed 3 nights with tonight being our 3rd and already the batteries are saying low charge. This set up comes in at over 8k factory fitted so I'm unsure why I'm in the dark?

My draw is about 3 to 4 amps even with everything seemingly switched off.
Nikki washed and dried her hair yesterday, we watched a bit of avtex tv.

How come I have had the worst performance ever when camping in the depth of winter?
Other than increasing the capacity to more than I have ever ever had, am i sat in the dark?

Seems to me I should have simply ordered two led acid batteries with an efoy?

Complete load of dreamers out there selling these off grid solutions to put you in a place that could have been achieved cheaper in the first place. Might be alright if you are slumming it in Spain l, but clearly we don't, but I would have expected to not have to worry for 4 nights away in winter in the UK...

Lithium "ain't all that" prove me wrong or tell me there's something wrong.
Or am View attachment 994946View attachment 994947i misreading something?

The major issue I see here is now quite obvious...Cooking steak in an airfryer....

 

[ChrisL]

I think you're not comparing apples with apples, had you not had an efoy in your previous setup you would now realise just how much better the lithiums are, plus you have a significant saving in weight, less voltage sag under load and less voltage drop over time.

 

[Wanders from Glos]

Where are you?

Do you need a hair dryer twice for parties, are you having air fried steak for tea?

We are in Totnes. No airfryer but have used electric kettle and will be using hairdryer.

As Lenny HB says it’s easy to get over ambitious. Lithium is a finite resource all said and done. My point is that so far it is working well for us. Shame the weather isn’t!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[fred_jb]

Your background current drain of over 4A with everything turned off is using about 30% of your capacity every 24hrs. You really need to investigate what is causing that. If your water tank had a leak of that magnitude I am sure you would do something about it.

There is also the issue of having a powerful inverter, which does not mean that you can just use it willy-nilly. You have to balance heavy use against the ability to replenish the batteries. To continue the water analogy - you wouldn't expect to have several showers per day with no way of filling up your water tank!

However, I get the feeling you are more interested in justifying your "lithium is no good" stance than genuinely seeking advice to tackle the problem.

 

[Minxy]

I'm no electrical guru, not even a minion, but what you are taking out has to be replaced somehow.

Have you calculated how much your Efoy supported your usage previously? How often you had to feed it with fuel should give you an idea and I bet it was quite a bit.

I also suspect that because you have lithium you have gone a little bit frivolous thinking you don't need to be concerned about your usage/habits so have likely used more than previously, eg that extra 5 mins on the hairdryer, leaving the inverter on for longer when not needed. With your Efoy keeping your usage supported it has never been something for you to think about much, you just had to ensure you had some fuel to keep it running.

All energy usage needs to be repaid in some way, by Efoy, solar, driving etc, so you aren't doing that sufficiently to keep up with usage - solar hasn't a chance in the UK in winter with only 200w, and even in summer would find it difficult, summer in Spain might cope but with your set-up more solar should have been a minimum from the off.

 

[Minxy]

Am I right in thinking that an inverter that is of an overly large capacity for the jobs it's doing will waste energy when in use, never mind when unused but left on?

 

[Jim]

I am glad this subject has been brought up. From what I have read people expect farnto much from lithium batteries, inverters and solar panels.

Maybe, but an AH is an AH no matter what battery supplies it

 

[Steve and Denise]

Your background current drain of over 4A with everything turned off is using about 30% of your capacity every 24hrs. You really need to investigate what is causing that. If your water tank had a leak of that magnitude I am sure you would do something about it.

There is also the issue of having a powerful inverter, which does not mean that you can just use it willy-nilly. You have to balance heavy use against the ability to replenish the batteries. To continue the water analogy - you wouldn't expect to have several showers per day with no way of filling up your water tank!

However, I get the feeling you are more interested in justifying your "lithium is no good" stance than genuinely seeking advice to tackle the problem.

He has a Tesla and it’s the best car ever on lithium maybe need a Tesla power wall Paul

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[oldiesontour]

Firstly you clearly have a set up off the peg,rather than one designed to take into account your usage,it was vastly overpriced and poorly specd.
For what you paid you could have had much more capacity in battery,solar,mains & vehicle charging capabilities .I have a humble PVC,with 640 w solar , 2 x 2000w inverters,100amp mains charger,50a B2B,680ah heated batteries full shunt monitoring and a compressor fridge/freezer total cost under £1500
Also as said you are comparing Batteries AND efoy with Batteries alone.

 

[Jim]

Am I right in thinking that an inverter that is of an overly large capacity for the jobs it's doing will waste energy when in use, never mind when unused but left on?

Yes, my large inverter switch is in a place where I cannot see the 'On' light, and I often leave it on overnight and regret it.

 

[enark]

Get a generator. (Cost about £500 for a decent Honda). 5 ltr of petrol will then give you much more KWs than some solar panels etc..)

And boil the kettle on gas?

 

[CazPaul]

Your background current drain of over 4A with everything turned off is using about 30% of your capacity every 24hrs. You really need to investigate what is causing that. If your water tank had a leak of that magnitude I am sure you would do something about it.

There is also the issue of having a powerful inverter, which does not mean that you can just use it willy-nilly. You have to balance heavy use against the ability to replenish the batteries. To continue the water analogy - you wouldn't expect to have several showers per day with no way of filling up your water tank!

However, I get the feeling you are more interested in justifying your "lithium is no good" stance than genuinely seeking advice to tackle the problem.

That’s a bit unfair, I agree lithium gets marketed as better than it really is so I agree with haganap to some extent

We had x2 huge Rolls Surrette 6 volt batteries in a previous van, now they were brilliant if haganap had those 2 buggers he would have lasted so much longer off grid in winter.

 

[Steve and Denise]

That’s a bit unfair, I agree lithium gets marketed as better than it really is so I agree with haganap to some extent

We had x2 huge Rolls Surrette 6 volt batteries in a previous van, now they were brilliant if haganap had those 2 buggers he would have lasted so much longer off grid in winter.

If you checked 1lb for 1lb he could have had 4,000 amps of lithium

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jim]

Far from being a con, I have found that lithium has made my off site touring so much better. I can carry far more AH without the weight penalty and they are so quick to recharge. Coupled with my large underslung gas tank, touring, even in winter is so much easier.

 

[haganap]

It’s quite funny it’s all about pints and quarts older people on here will relate to this

Sorry Steve, you lost me there

I think you're not comparing apples with apples, had you not had an efoy in your previous setup you would now realise just how much better the lithiums are, plus you have a significant saving in weight, less voltage sag under load and less voltage drop over time.

Possibly, but my point is for people not to get sucked in by the hype..
It's like anything we spend our money on, we spend the rest of time justifying the costs of it. I could be sat here in Neckender s T5 and clearly is happy as in my luxury branded motorhome, and been able to airfry my steak.

I don't have a weight issue, if this van never had of come with this extravagant extra, I would have been just as happy by buying 2 new Banners and transferring my efoy over as I've done on the last 5 vans, other than the carthago, that never had enough time to ask for it before the fire.

I've been searching for things to buy, a 360 camera set up that everyone that tells me who has one it's the best thing since sliced bread..but Nikki says she needs to be able to dry her hair like she used to first and my mirrors are fine.
Additional underslung LPG tank, yet my LPG usage is fine.
Diesel heater? But turns out I don't need that either I'm dead warm.
Just gonna have to change the van again instead..

 

[Jim]

That’s a bit unfair, I agree lithium gets marketed as better than it really is

What aspect of marketing do you think is better than the reality?

 

[CazPaul]

If you checked 1lb for 1lb he could have had 4,000 amps of lithium

Only the weight of another person roughly and you still need the space to fit 4000 Amps.

 

[CazPaul]

What aspect of marketing do you think is better than the reality?

The OP has just posted the reality

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Jim]

The OP has just posted the reality

The OP has posted about using more AH than he has available, that will happen on any system.

The reality, is more AH for the weight, and quicker recharging.

 

[fred_jb]

That’s a bit unfair, I agree lithium gets marketed as better than it really is so I agree with haganap to some extent

We had x2 huge Rolls Surrette 6 volt batteries in a previous van, now they were brilliant if haganap had those 2 buggers he would have lasted so much longer off grid in winter.

As a way to store energy in motorhomes, lithium is better in every way than previous technologies. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise. However, what it seems is unrealistic is the general expectations of what this means in practice.

It appears that many people think it is a panacea allowing virtually unlimited use of electrical power. Not so - all it does is allow you to store more power, and use power more quickly. Although lithium can also be charged faster, this means nothing unless you have suitable means to do so.

 

[haganap]

However, I get the feeling you are more interested in justifying your "lithium is no good" stance than genuinely seeking advice to tackle the problem.

Thanks for the rest but I think this is a bit unfair.

I'm asking people to tell me it's not, not justify it as being useless.
I'm comparing it with what I've had before for a number of years without an issue.. My current drain now is 2.1 amps

oldiesontour this is a factory fitted system from one of the very best motorhoming manufacturers in the world (allegedly). Your response is pretty much nail on the head...
The advert says "never have to worry about shore power again"

It would be better to spec a van with what you have for your needs...mine would clearly have been an onboard genny or an effoy, even an efoy with a Lithium battery..

Jim and others refer to the weight issue. It's not an issue in my van. So maybe if that was your selling point well done.

But my selling point is a wife with good hair and a steak before we go out tonight, ain't going to happen..
I'm going to be going out with a wife with a hat on and a pizza delivery..

 

[Jim]

The OP has just posted the reality

Where is this dodgy marketing that is better than reality? If it's out there, point it out so we can call them out

 

[Jim]

@Jim and others refer to the weight issue. It's not an issue in my van. So maybe if that was your selling point well done.

I just pointed to that as one of the selling points. As it happens, I do have to watch my payload, and I have 600AH of LiFePO4 so I'm glad that's not lead acid, especially this side of Christmas

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}