Lithium batteries what to go for

[garry63]

Hi all
Looking at lithium battery
Got a 110ah lead battery now
If I upgrade is a lithium 230a twice the capacity of the 110ah and a 3000a 3xbetter or does it not work like that?

 

[garry63]

You will be fine esp if you are using the odd site where you can charge up.

I'd look at another chunk of solar on your return to give that extra bit of charge speed in future.

Don't have room on roof unless I go for flexi

 

[garry63]

Sounds like 2 lead acid leisure batteries would do you rather than going to the cost of lithium.
If that's all the power you are using then depending on how long you have your TV on for, which will be your biggest drain, 2 x 100AH lead acids should give you about 4 days with no charging input.

How far apart can the 2 batteries be?

 

[funflair]

Not sure if I can fit another battery in as compartment too small

Lithium it is then

 

[garry63]

Lithium it is then

How far apart can 2 batteries be?

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[funflair]

How far apart can 2 batteries be?

I would only be guessing if I gave you a number but as a low power user I would think there wouldn't be an issue, hopefully somebody else has an an answer more educated than my guess, I would imagine though that it becomes more important that you take power and charge Pos on one battery and Neg on the other so that one can't get lazy.

 

[autorouter]

If I upgrade is a lithium 230a twice the capacity of the 110ah and a 3000a 3xbetter or does it not work like that?

Just to answer the question, a 230Ah lithium battery has a usable capacity of about 200Ah, and a 110Ah lead-acid battery has a usable capacity of 55 to 90Ah depending on the type. So depending on what type of lead-acid battery you have now, that's at least twice, and possibly nearly four times the existing usable capacity.

 

[garry63]

I would only be guessing if I gave you a number but as a low power user I would think there wouldn't be an issue, hopefully somebody else has an an answer more educated than my guess, I would imagine though that it becomes more important that you take power and charge Pos on one battery and Neg on the other so that one can't get lazy.

Just to answer the question, a 230Ah lithium battery has a usable capacity of about 200Ah, and a 110Ah lead-acid battery has a usable capacity of 55 to 90Ah depending on the type. So depending on what type of lead-acid battery you have now, that's at least twice, and possibly nearly four times the existing usable capacity.

Thats a good point but 110v acid £100
230 lithium £700 is it worth it.
Plus 2011 mh what would I need to do and spend so that I can use lithium on ehu?

 

[funflair]

Thats a good point but 110v acid £100
230 lithium £700 is it worth it.
Plus 2011 mh what would I need to do and spend so that I can use lithium on ehu?

That's why I say you need a handle on how much power you actually need, maybe your existing battery is Kaput and has reduced capacity, a Gel battery would allow a slightly lower discharge than flooded lead acid so therefore give you slightly better capacity but you might have to check your mains charger profile, if you could find room for two Gel or Flooded Lead Acid and I would be happy at a couple of metres apart then you would be a lot better off than you are now.

Is the Lithium worth it at £700? only you can answer that, I would have to say yes as you would add another 0 for what we have spent but ours was a new van and didn't need all the other bits upgrading as it came as a package and we wanted lots of capacity, if it stops you cutting trips short then yes it's worth it, if it just gives you spare power that you don't use well no it isn't.

Yes I am sure there would be additional items that would need upgrading to add to the lithium, I think in your shoes I would be trying to squeeze in two good quality Lead Acid or Gel batteries and keep it simple

 

[bigtwin]

How is it bigger i don't know what he has.

There was enough information in the post that you quoted to come to that conclusion; no matter, funflair has clarified his setup in his subsequent post.

Ian

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[garry63]

That's why I say you need a handle on how much power you actually need, maybe your existing battery is Kaput and has reduced capacity, a Gel battery would allow a slightly lower discharge than flooded lead acid so therefore give you slightly better capacity but you might have to check your mains charger profile, if you could find room for two Gel or Flooded Lead Acid and I would be happy at a couple of metres apart then you would be a lot better off than you are now.

Is the Lithium worth it at £700? only you can answer that, I would have to say yes as you would add another 0 for what we have spent but ours was a new van and didn't need all the other bits upgrading as it came as a package and we wanted lots of capacity, if it stops you cutting trips short then yes it's worth it, if it just gives you spare power that you don't use well no it isn't.

Yes I am sure there would be additional items that would need upgrading to add to the lithium, I think in your shoes I would be trying to squeeze in two good quality Lead Acid or Gel batteries and keep it simple

Really like your points last year went away for a few long weekends off grid no problem poss battery needs checking, think ill take it off and get it checked. 2 good quality batteries seems better option. I do like the idea of one battery giving better performance ( lithium)but might be too much trouble to go down that route if lots need changing

 

[garry63]

That's why I say you need a handle on how much power you actually need, maybe your existing battery is Kaput and has reduced capacity, a Gel battery would allow a slightly lower discharge than flooded lead acid so therefore give you slightly better capacity but you might have to check your mains charger profile, if you could find room for two Gel or Flooded Lead Acid and I would be happy at a couple of metres apart then you would be a lot better off than you are now.

Is the Lithium worth it at £700? only you can answer that, I would have to say yes as you would add another 0 for what we have spent but ours was a new van and didn't need all the other bits upgrading as it came as a package and we wanted lots of capacity, if it stops you cutting trips short then yes it's worth it, if it just gives you spare power that you don't use well no it isn't.

Yes I am sure there would be additional items that would need upgrading to add to the lithium, I think in your shoes I would be trying to squeeze in two good quality Lead Acid or Gel batteries and keep it simple

Don't know much about batteries so are gel better than acid?

 

[bigtwin]

Don't know much about batteries so are gel better than acid?

Depends; for a non inverter setup, definitely. If you have an inverter then wet lead acid is probably more suited but you’d need a larger bank.

Ian

 

[garry63]

Depends; for a non inverter setup, definitely. If you have an inverter then wet lead acid is probably more suited but you’d need a larger bank.

Ian

I have a sealed battery on now so does that mean I have an inverter?

 

[bigtwin]

I have a sealed battery on now so does that mean I have an inverter?

No. An inverter converts 12V dc from your battery into 240V ac such that you don’t need EHU to power your mains appliances. However, inverters use a massive amount of power from your batteries.

Ian

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[garry63]

No. An inverter converts 12V dc from your battery into 240V ac such that you don’t need EHU to power your mains appliances. However, inverters use a massive amount of power from your batteries.

Ian

Cheers
If I've got a sealed battery on now tho I can put any sealed battery, not lithium, on to mh and should be compatible with charger and equipment thats already on my mh

 

[suavecarve]

Cheers
If I've got a sealed battery on now tho I can put any sealed battery, not lithium, on to mh and should be compatible with charger and equipment thats already on my mh

Whereabouts are you ? Geographically

 

[bigtwin]

Cheers
If I've got a sealed battery on now tho I can put any sealed battery, not lithium, on to mh and should be compatible with charger and equipment thats already on my mh

No, based on what I’ve seen on this post I’d suggest that you replace like for like.

Ian

 

[Tombola]

Cheers
If I've got a sealed battery on now tho I can put any sealed battery, not lithium, on to mh and should be compatible with charger and equipment thats already on my mh

If you already have a sealed lead acid battery, you can put any other sealed lead acid battery , just make sure it is a "leisure battery" "deep cycle" and not just a car starter battery.

 

[garry63]

If you already have a sealed lead acid battery, you can put any other sealed lead acid battery , just make sure it is a "leisure battery" "deep cycle" and not just a car starter battery.

Yep I'm not battery savy but I do know that

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[headlight]

No. An inverter converts 12V dc from your battery into 240V ac such that you don’t need EHU to power your mains appliances. However, inverters use a massive amount of power from your batteries.

Ian

How much power an inverter takes from batteries depends on what the inverter is powering.
For example I have a 300 watt inverter just to run my mains power TV.
It uses just under 4 amps an hour running my TV so not a lot of power.
However if you had a large inverter running say a microwave, hair dryer, electric kettle etc then that would use quite a lot of battery power.
I don't think the OP has any high drain electrical items either 12v DC or 240v AC from what he has said.

 

[The Wino]

In the ops shoes id fully charge the battery then switch the TV in the MH on and lights for roughly as long as they're going to be on in Ireland . Switch them on again the next night as long as the battery indicator says that the batteries okay and see what charge is left the following evening after the solars done it's stuff. If the charge is still pretty good I'd just go as is after all there's going to be charging from driving as well and the solar will provide as much as now probably unless when he's going the days are a lot shorter or the weather a lot worse.

 

[Hugoman]

Sorry to butt in but I have a similar conundrum … Sounds to me like Lead Acid and Gel are not interchangeable….what about AGM ? Can you put Gel in to replace AGM without any further changes ?

Also how does one tell if the MPPT is capable of being set to Lithium or GEL for that matter ? Also how can you tell if the onboard mains charger is able to be set to GEL or Lithium…can you just look at the top of it.

 

[funflair]

Look on the right side of your EBL and you are set to Gel,

 

[monzer]

Sorry to butt in but I have a similar conundrum … Sounds to me like Lead Acid and Gel are not interchangeable….what about AGM ? Can you put Gel in to replace AGM without any further changes ?

Also how does one tell if the MPPT is capable of being set to Lithium or GEL for that matter ? Also how can you tell if the onboard mains charger is able to be set to GEL or Lithium…can you just look at the top of it.

View attachment 732036View attachment 732037

Top right on your first pic is the switch to change from lead to gel (Blei - gel) They say gel can be used for Lithiums although you are better to fit a proper charger with lithium profile. I haven't got my new charger yet so if my batteries do get too low I charge them on my elektroblocks gel setting and all has been good.

Bottom left on your elektroblock pic is (internus lademodule) - battery charger - I pull that fuse out if I am connected to hook up and don't want my batteries charged. This way they are only charged via my MPPT where you can change the charging profile to Lithium via the victron app.

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[autorouter]

Sorry to butt in but I have a similar conundrum … Sounds to me like Lead Acid and Gel are not interchangeable….what about AGM ? Can you put Gel in to replace AGM without any further changes ?

As monzer says, there is a switch on the right to change between lead-acid (Blei-Saure) and gel (Blei-Gel). If you look at the manual you will see that the voltage settings are exactly the same, the only difference is that on the gel setting the 'absorption' stage at 14.4V is extended by a timer to last several hours. That is unnecessary for a lithium battery, and in this case it is better to switch to the lead-acid setting.

Other EBL models can only switch between gel and AGM, so that is why you will see the recommendation to switch to the gel setting, because the AGM voltage is higher.

If you want to connect a modern smart mains charger with lithium settings, you can either connect it direct to the leisure battery, or through that 2-way connector on the front. It's labelled Zus-Lade (= Zusatsz Ladegerate, Auxiliary charger). It goes through that fuse labelled Zusatz Ladegerate, to the leisure battery.

 

[Hugoman]

Top right on your first pic is the switch to change from lead to gel (Blei - gel) They say gel can be used for Lithiums although you are better to fit a proper charger with lithium profile. I haven't got my new charger yet so if my batteries do get too low I charge them on my elektroblocks gel setting and all has been good.

Bottom left on your elektroblock pic is (internus lademodule) - battery charger - I pull that fuse out if I am connected to hook up and don't want my batteries charged. This way they are only charged via my MPPT where you can change the charging profile to Lithium via the victron app.

Ah right….I assume my AGM’s are fine with the Blei-Gel setting. Think I’ll stick to AGM’s. I notice my existing ones are only 850ah (got two of them). Can I replace them with 2 x 110ah or even 2x 200AH ….or is there a limit to the amount of AH’s that my Elektroblock
can charge.

 

[Hugoman]

As monzer says, there is a switch on the right to change between lead-acid (Blei-Saure) and gel (Blei-Gel). If you look at the manual you will see that the voltage settings are exactly the same, the only difference is that on the gel setting the 'absorption' stage at 14.4V is extended by a timer to last several hours. That is unnecessary for a lithium battery, and in this case it is better to switch to the lead-acid setting.

Other EBL models can only switch between gel and AGM, so that is why you will see the recommendation to switch to the gel setting, because the AGM voltage is higher.

If you want to connect a modern smart mains charger with lithium settings, you can either connect it direct to the leisure battery, or through that 2-way connector on the front. It's labelled Zus-Lade (= Zusatsz Ladegerate, Auxiliary charger). It goes through that fuse labelled Zusatz Ladegerate, to the leisure battery.

So …. Excuse my ignorance but is a smart mains charger an add on to my Elektrobloc. How big is it ? No room in the cubby hole with the Elekrobkock….suppose I could lose the next storage cubby hole and put it there. Is it just a matter of connecting it into the 2-way connector Zus-Lade or are there other things to do.

 

[Lenny HB]

Ah right….I assume my AGM’s are fine with the Blei-Gel setting.

Using AGM's on the Gel setting is a quick way of killing them AGM's require the correct charging profile if they stand a change of lasting and there are type 1 & type 2 AGM's they have different charging voltages.

is there a limit to the amount of AH’s that my Elektroblock
can charge.

If you fit a second 80/95 ah battery they recommend you fit the 18 amp auxiliary charger which increases the charging rate to 36 amps.
However unless you are constantly charging batteries from fairly flat you can get away without it.
I have 3 x 78 ah Gels with the standard charger but we only use mains for probably 5 or 6 nights a year out of the 120 - 150 nights a year in the van.

 

[Hugoman]

That's why I say you need a handle on how much power you actually need, maybe your existing battery is Kaput and has reduced capacity, a Gel battery would allow a slightly lower discharge than flooded lead acid so therefore give you slightly better capacity but you might have to check your mains charger profile, if you could find room for two Gel or Flooded Lead Acid and I would be happy at a couple of metres apart then you would be a lot better off than you are now.

Is the Lithium worth it at £700? only you can answer that, I would have to say yes as you would add another 0 for what we have spent but ours was a new van and didn't need all the other bits upgrading as it came as a package and we wanted lots of capacity, if it stops you cutting trips short then yes it's worth it, if it just gives you spare power that you don't use well no it isn't.

Yes I am sure there would be additional items that would need upgrading to add to the lithium, I think in your shoes I would be trying to squeeze in two good quality Lead Acid or Gel batteries and keep it simple

Aren’t AGM’s better than GEL ? I’ve heard GEL are a bit fragile ?

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[Lenny HB]

Aren’t AGM’s better than GEL ? I’ve heard GEL are a bit fragile ?

Gels are far superiour, they take a bit longer to charge but can be discharged to 20%, not recommended for very high current loads but if you keep the discharge rate to the C5 rate they are fine.
Also they often last 10 years plus.