Leaving the UK during arrival self-isolating.

Could you quarantine in motorhome ? Get mot and drive back?
 
Just to deal with registration in Poland nobody could register RHD now.

Corridors are irrelevant.

I am splitting the MOT issue into two excercises.

Firstly I have to get the MH legally to Dunkirk.

Secondly, I have to get to a) MOT, plus maybe repair, and b) to quarantine address.

On the first at the moment I have no licence and soon no MOT.

On the second Landy Andy has come nearest, in that I could give hotel as quarantine address, then leave UK when it is done. Or as Gus says, the MH as address.

Back to first part. DVLA have blocked their phones, e-mail and webchat and I cannot access their licence application tracking because that only operates for online applications and C1 applications have to be postal.

DVSA have refused MOT extension, 'because they are under DfT instructions.

So off to DfT who control DVLA and DVSA to obtain their e-mail(not on website). I ask helpful lady what is the appropriate e-mail for this problem and she listens, goes off for 4-5 mins. and comes back with e-mail address of the Cabinet Office. My reading of this is that she spoke to somebody who realised it was useless referring me back down the line to DVLA and DVSA, so decided to boot it upstairs.

I have sent an e-mail to the Cabinet Office, saying I was referred by DfT focusing on the difficulty getting to UK and leaving aside the rules for quarantine and MOT test.

I now await while Michael Gove's minions chew it over and reply.

Geoff
 
As UK plated vehicles need to have a UK address, I presume you have one.
I'd simply SORN the van for now, It's not on the road in the UK, so this is valid
Don't tell them it's not in the UK.

At some point in the future, once you have a driving licence you arrive at Dover and go straight to the closest MOT station.
Weather the vehicle is taxed or not is nothing to do with the insurance.
But I agree, driving a vehicle with an expired MOT may be of interest to the insurance company, but you may be able to get an exemption, especially if you say the trip is to get the MOT

There will be many other vehicles that have been in storage in Spain since before March 20 that will need to be driven home to northern Europe for MOT's, Tax etc.

As an aside, registering your RHD in Poland.
I have a Polish neighbour, in normal times he drives back to Poland 3 or 4 times a year, each time he buys a 5 year old RHD BMW, whilst in Poland he converts it to LHD and then sells it, he has done it so many times that he can do the entire job in two days in his own garage. Converting your van may not be as expensive as you think.
 
nicholsong said:
Just to deal with registration in Poland nobody could register RHD now.

Corridors are irrelevant.

I am splitting the MOT issue into two excercises.

Firstly I have to get the MH legally to Dunkirk.

Secondly, I have to get to a) MOT, plus maybe repair, and b) to quarantine address.

On the first at the moment I have no licence and soon no MOT.

On the second Landy Andy has come nearest, in that I could give hotel as quarantine address, then leave UK when it is done. Or as Gus says, the MH as address.

Back to first part. DVLA have blocked their phones, e-mail and webchat and I cannot access their licence application tracking because that only operates for online applications and C1 applications have to be postal.

DVSA have refused MOT extension, 'because they are under DfT instructions.

So off to DfT who control DVLA and DVSA to obtain their e-mail(not on website). I ask helpful lady what is the appropriate e-mail for this problem and she listens, goes off for 4-5 mins. and comes back with e-mail address of the Cabinet Office. My reading of this is that she spoke to somebody who realised it was useless referring me back down the line to DVLA and DVSA, so decided to boot it upstairs.

I have sent an e-mail to the Cabinet Office, saying I was referred by DfT focusing on the difficulty getting to UK and leaving aside the rules for quarantine and MOT test.

I now await while Michael Gove's minions chew it over and reply.

Geoff
Click to expand...
Sounds to me Geoff that you may be in a similar situation to some here in Spain, I'm not offering anything in the way of help, only to say you are perhaps taking a risk in many ways, Covid, being caught with ANPR equipped Police car etc....sorry you are in such a terrible situation...our neighbours are in the same boat, or perhaps not, as the case may be...
 
Last edited:
nicholsong said:
Back to first part. DVLA have blocked their phones, e-mail and webchat and I cannot access their licence application tracking because that only operates for online applications and C1 applications have to be postal.
Click to expand...

I spoke to the DVLA on the phone in mid December about my soon to expire licence (I dropped the C1) and the new licence arrived within a week.

Spoke again on the phone with them this week about downplating my van to 3.5t van (applied for beginning of September) and was told the paperwork was in the post. Driving licence enquiry meant being on hold for about an hour, the van issue, this week - just a few minutes.

Both times I got a result, staff there were polite and helpful
 
Hello nicholsong, i hope you sort out your problem,if you drive to your quarantine address ,then get a friend to drive van to garage ,whilst you are in quarantine, as soon as van is ready, you book your fit to fly test, and then set off home,
my daughter flew in from alicante for a week but had to be taken to boots for test to fly back she had test on the sunday results on monday and flew back tuesday this was at christmas and you couldnt return unless you had proof of residence,
i think travel corridors are getting narrower now so check before you set off ,and the very best of luck 🤞 can i ask are you a fulltimer?

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matamoros said:
He is not allowed to register a rhd motorhome in Poland apparentlly.

See post #13 items 1&2
Click to expand...
Neither of those items mention that RHD is the issue. However, if that’s the case surely it would have been easier to swap the van for a LHD one as soon as he knew he wanted to live in Poland. :unsure:
 
.
You can not register a UK vehicle anymore in EU, after 1st of January 2021. It’s been announced by individual countries. For example in Ro you can register one from Ireland, but not from UK, unless you have proof of a authorised garage to do the conversion to LHD. That’s seats, dashboard, instruments, lights, doors where applicable. A car may be straight forward, but a van with the sliding door on the left is a no. The way around this is to register in Ireland then re register in EU, or sell it.
 
Raul said:
.
You can not register a UK vehicle anymore in EU, after 1st of January 2021. It’s been announced by individual countries. For example in Ro you can register one from Ireland, but not from UK, unless you have proof of a authorised garage to do the conversion to LHD. That’s seats, dashboard, instruments, lights, doors where applicable. A car may be straight forward, but a van with the sliding door on the left is a no. The way around this is to register in Ireland then re register in EU, or sell it.
Click to expand...

Please show a link to any legislation to this effect.
I am currently registering a rhd PVC in Portugal.
 
nicholsong said:
That would not comply with both 11 and 12 in my post - cannot go direct to isolation location and MOT at same time immediately after arrival.
Click to expand...
That is not correct if you enter before your MOT runs out. Enter country before 31 January, drive to place of isolation and stay there for the required time. Then get the MOT done and drive back. You may not like it, but that is the only way to achieve what you want legally. It also helps us all to stay safe.

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gus-lopez said:
He puts it down as the address he is quarantining at ,albeit outside.

It depends. Here where I live they refuse outright to re-register anything that is classed as being a " commercial van derivative" .
So rhdrive pvc's were always refsed .
Whereas up in Alicante they re-register the exact same thing
Click to expand...
Our old panel van was OK to go on Spanish plates but decided the cost to do it, was wasted money because it devalues it being RHD, I think because we had the same layout as our present van with the door on the right and window over the table on the left giving visibility, had it had a bathroom at the front it definitely wouldn't, friends did buy a RHD people carrier a little while ago and got it for peanuts. 😁

I have seen a couple of people asking for recommendations to transport motorhomes back to the UK because they couldn't get them registered in Spain, and I did hear a few months ago that after the 1st January you could no longer register RHD in Spain but not seen anything written down, I can't remember if that was the same before the EU. 🤔 Bob.
 
nicholsong said:
Just to deal with registration in Poland nobody could register RHD now.

Corridors are irrelevant.

I am splitting the MOT issue into two excercises.

Firstly I have to get the MH legally to Dunkirk.

Secondly, I have to get to a) MOT, plus maybe repair, and b) to quarantine address.

On the first at the moment I have no licence and soon no MOT.

On the second Landy Andy has come nearest, in that I could give hotel as quarantine address, then leave UK when it is done. Or as Gus says, the MH as address.

Back to first part. DVLA have blocked their phones, e-mail and webchat and I cannot access their licence application tracking because that only operates for online applications and C1 applications have to be postal.

DVSA have refused MOT extension, 'because they are under DfT instructions.

So off to DfT who control DVLA and DVSA to obtain their e-mail(not on website). I ask helpful lady what is the appropriate e-mail for this problem and she listens, goes off for 4-5 mins. and comes back with e-mail address of the Cabinet Office. My reading of this is that she spoke to somebody who realised it was useless referring me back down the line to DVLA and DVSA, so decided to boot it upstairs.

I have sent an e-mail to the Cabinet Office, saying I was referred by DfT focusing on the difficulty getting to UK and leaving aside the rules for quarantine and MOT test.

I now await while Michael Gove's minions chew it over and reply.

Geoff
Click to expand...
Geoff, I needed to contact DVLA during first lockdown managed it by persisting with the webchat, had more luck in the late afternoon. Jon
 
maz said:
Neither of those items mention that RHD is the issue. However, if that’s the case surely it would have been easier to swap the van for a LHD one as soon as he knew he wanted to live in Poland. :unsure:
Click to expand...
I suspect that at the time he originally went there it wasn't an issue with having RHD, but now we're out of the EU it is. He likes his MH so why change it, if however he'd known what was going to happen, he might have done so. No point in pouring salt into the wound though, better to try to help with a solution now.
 
Geoff
  • For coming to the UK, check what's required from a testing point of view and get that sorted so you are able to come here within the timescale allowed.

  • Check to see if your licence is still showing as 'valid' on the DVLA website - even if you haven't received the new one back, if you are still shown on there as having one then you are legal to drive: driving licence information

  • Contact the MOT garage and ensure that they will be able/willing to do it for you as soon as you arrive in the UK - if you believe they may have to sort some bits for you pre-warn them and get an idea of how long it would take if required.

  • Book your crossings as appropriate - I'd certainly do a 'flexi' ticket for the return leg just to be safe, it costs more but gives you the ability to change it without a problem.
Are you planning on staying in your MH whilst in the UK or going to a hotel etc? If your MH then you'll need somewhere to park up, do you know anywhere you could do this with services etc in case you have to stay for more than a few days bearing in mind you can't go to a campsite?

You can't 'adhere' to all of the rules as it would be impossible for you to do so, therefore just be 'sensible' about it and not worry unduly about things that are just 'bureaucratic' rather than 'health' related.
 
Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen.

I posted (#16 above) that I have sent the problem of getting to UK without MOT, and currently without driving licence, to Cabinet Office, on DfT's recommendation.

Since then there have been suggestions which I will deal with here, bypassing those that were made without reference to facts I had posted earlier. I will take the suggestions in order that they were posted.

Sorn without giving address. Yes I had considered that , but it only delays the problems which will still exist after it is unSorned, except I may have driving licence then.

Convert to LHD. The MH is a FIAT 2002 chassis and the garage informs me that the parts to do it are not available and looking at engine compartment a lot of gear would have to be re-positioned.

Selling and buying LHD. Of course this has been considered, but there are some obstacles. Firstly for selling; nobody would buy RHD here now, so would have to be in UK, but possible if messy. Buying LHD runs into tax problems here. Poland being an EU country is not allowed to have 'Import tax', but they have got round that by having an 'Excise tax', which was challenged, but eventually approved by the EU. My current MH was brought here without this tax as I got an exemption on the basis of bringing it here as part of my personal possessions. This is a one-off exemption which I could not claim for another MH.

Because of the refusal to re-register this MH iI could try to get the Excise Tax exemption transferred to a replacement MH, but the rules state that any exemption has to be for a vehicle which has been in my possession for 6 months and done 6000km. I could not meet that for a recently purchased replacement. The tax is 18.6%, which naturally I do not wish to pay.

I should at this point clarify that I am dealing with a government that has demonstrated that it does not abide by EU and some other international rules and is against most foreigners (it has not accepted its Eu-allocated share of asylum seekers). On the point of not registering RHD the government lost a case on just this point before the European Court of Justice in 2014 (I have read the judgement) but they continue to act against that ruling. They have also announced that they will not comply with a new EU Regulation on motor vehicles effective 01.09.2020. [A 'Regulation', unlike a Directive, takes direct effect in law throughout the EU]. The government is also in breach of EU law for politicising appointment of Judges. For all these transgressions they are being disciplined and fined monthly by the EU, but they still are intransigent.
None of this helps the individual.

Following on from the last paragraph the laws are changing frequently and are far different from what I knew before I came here. A new tax law took effect on 01.01.2021, although some details have not been published yet, which could cost me £6.000p.a. on top of the considerable tax I have paid in UK.

Mention of one EU or even Common Market and 'Solidarity' make me laugh weep.

Back to points raised in posts.

Contact DVLA re licence. Yesterday my e-mail was returned - hotmail said this address not accepting e-mails. Phone message said look at website, 'Goodbye' and goes dead, not even 'try again'. Webchat is closed. Thus my approach to DfT and Cabinet Office.

Getting to UK with MH for MOT by 31st Jan looks impossible as if licence arrived at my UK address Mon it could take 7-10 days to reach here, then 4-5 days to Dunkirk if Covid allows transit through D, NL,B,F. And all without an MOT - explaining to any Police or Border guards that it is legal because I am going directly to a pre-booked test appointment might be looked at sceptically to say the least.

I have not yet tackled the Underwriters about what MOT 'if required' in the policy wording means, as to required by whom, where and when?


From all the facts I have laid out previously and here it can be seen that i have been pursuing many angles over the last 5 months from registration through to where we are now. I even considered the suggestion of registering it as an 'antique vehicle'(there is no age limit), just needs a tame 'Museum' to take part-ownership, but that would breach the excise tax exemption by disposing of an interest in the MH before the end of one year from March 2020, but could be a possibility after 25.03.2021.

As some have said any action looks at risk of breaching some law(s) and not without other risks. At times the least risky action seems to be sitting it ot here just in breach of not registering but eventually at the end of this year the tax will run out and if no MOT I could not re-tax it, so then the fines start, unless I SORN it - and drive it? No way!

Congratulations if you have read so far.

Have a good weekend.

Geoff

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Last edited:
If his licence is saying valid then it will be under section 88 which means he can continue to drive in the UK but I believe, not abroad.
 
Minxy Girl said:
better to try to help with a solution now.
Click to expand...
I did. Before the RHD issue was revealed I suggested transferring the van into Basia’s name as a possible way round the re-registering issue. Except it turns out that being a Polish resident is not actually the issue. :unsure:
 
Mel Minxy Girl

Thanks for your two posts(#48 and 49) and for your support.

To answer the points in the second one

Would have to organise tests in Neth/Belge/France as I do not fancy driving solo for 900 miles in less than 72 hours till arr DVR

Checked licence on web - 'Expired' as I knew.

MOT garage - checked they can fit me in anytime, just need to arrange the pre-booked time if I leave here.

Book ferry - not till I know I will travek at all.

I would stay in the MH at the farm S. of Canterbury where we have often left the MH before.

Now I am off to draft the questions for the accountant about the new tax rules that may apply to me.


If anyone is wondering whether I would have come here had I known what the government were gong to do with the law, I am not sure. of course these problems are partly created by Brexit. I came here to be with Basia. We are now stuck here because her Mother will be 100 in May and while still living on her own needs Basia's support in several ways, e.g. shopping and even coming here for shower and shampoo - Basia has just left to collect her now.

Basia is fed-up with this government and I think that if we were free to do so we would move from here PDQ. Not sure where, maybe not UK, but France and Spain sound like bureaucratic nightmares too.

As you say the situation is what it is.

Watch this space.

Geoff
 
I think it must all be very worrying for you, & I’m sorry I can’t help. My thought would be to SORN the Motorhome, as time hopefully would sort out the driving licence, Covid testing, isolation scenario. I know it’s not strictly legal, as you are not in the UK, but it seems the lesser of all the evils to me. I do hope your situation is sorted soon!
 
nicholsong said:
Good Morning Ladies and Gentlemen.

I posted (#16 above) that I have sent the problem of getting to UK without MOT, and currently without driving licence, to Cabinet Office, on DfT's recommendation.

Since then there have been suggestions which I will deal with here, bypassing those that were made without reference to facts I had posted earlier. I will take the suggestions in order that they were posted.

Sorn without giving address. Yes I had considered that , but it only delays the problems which will still exist after it is unSorned, except I may have driving licence then.

Convert to LHD. The MH is a FIAT 2002 chassis and the garage informs me that the parts to do it are not available and looking at engine compartment a lot of gear would have to be re-positioned.

Selling and buying LHD. Of course this has been considered, but there are some obstacles. Firstly for selling; nobody would buy RHD here now, so would have to be in UK, but possible if messy. Buying LHD runs into tax problems here. Poland being an EU country is not allowed to have 'Import tax', but they have got round that by having an 'Excise tax', which was challenged, but eventually approved by the EU. My current MH was brought here without this tax as I got an exemption on the basis of bringing it here as part of my personal possessions. This is a one-off exemption which I could not claim for another MH.

Because of the refusal to re-register this MH iI could try to get the Excise Tax exemption transferred to a replacement MH, but the rules state that any exemption has to be for a vehicle which has been in my possession for 6 months and done 6000km. I could not meet that for a recently purchased replacement. The tax is 18.6%, which naturally I do not wish to pay.

I should at this point clarify that I am dealing with a government that has demonstrated that it does not abide by EU and some other international rules and is against most foreigners (it has not accepted its Eu-allocated share of asylum seekers). On the point of not registering RHD the government lost a case on just this point before the European Court of Justice in 2014 (I have read the judgement) but they continue to act against that ruling. They have also announced that they will not comply with a new EU Regulation on motor vehicles effective 01.09.2020. [A 'Regulation', unlike a Directive, takes direct effect in law throughout the EU]. The government is also in breach of EU law for politicising appointment of Judges. For all these transgressions they are being disciplined and fined monthly by the EU, but they still are intransigent.
None of this helps the individual.

Following on from the last paragraph the laws are changing frequently and are far different from what I knew before I came here. A new tax law took effect on 01.01.2021, although some details have not been published yet, which could cost me £6.000p.a. on top of the considerable tax I have paid in UK.

Mention of one EU or even Common Market and 'Solidarity' make me laugh weep.

Back to points raised in posts.

Contact DVLA re licence. Yesterday my e-mail was returned - hotmail said this address not accepting e-mails. Phone message said look at website, 'Goodbye' and goes dead, not even 'try again'. Webchat is closed. Thus my approach to DfT and Cabinet Office.

Getting to UK with MH for MOT by 31st Jan looks impossible as if licence arrived at my UK address Mon it could take 7-10 days to reach here, then 4-5 days to Dunkirk if Covid allows transit through D, NL,B,F. And all without an MOT - explaining to any Police or Border guards that it is legal because I am going directly to a pre-booked test appointment might be looked at sceptically to say the least.

I have not yet tackled the Underwriters about what MOT 'if required' in the policy wording means, as to required by whom, where and when?


From all the facts I have laid out previously and here it can be seen that i have been pursuing many angles over the last 5 months from registration through to where we are now. I even considered the suggestion of registering it as an 'antique vehicle'(there is no age limit), just needs a tame 'Museum' to take part-ownership, but that would breach the excise tax exemption by disposing of an interest in the MH before the end of one year from March 2020, but could be a possibility after 25.03.2021.

As some have said any action looks at risk of breaching some law(s) and not without other risks. At times the least risky action seems to be sitting it ot here just in breach of not registering but eventually at the end of this year the tax will run out and if no MOT I could not re-tax it, so then the fines start, unless I SORN it - and drive it? No way!

Congratulations if you have read so far.

Have a good weekend.

Geoff
Click to expand...
You could always pay for it to be shipped back to the UK on a low loader at some future date and just park up for now and sorn it, I know that is not allowed but you are running out of legal options.
I feel that whatever you do is going to cost and the choice seems to be of the least onerous or expensive options.
I am currently in the process of importing my PVC into Portugal, it is not cheap but worth it to us.

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Certainly before this latest lockdown you could leave the U.K. before your quarantine ended. I did this in November. However that was before and now without any good reason the authorities will prevent you from leaving if you are a U.K. passport holder .
 
gus-lopez said:
So he arrives & where do you suggest he stays then for your "stay at home" He hasn't got one ,like me?
Click to expand...

My point is that do not travel and risk spreading the virus, I would hardly call the reasons stated here as 'essential'. I believe that people need to stop finding ways around the rules and go by the spirit of the rules. If possible, just stay put until travel restrictions are lifted.
 
Stonemags76 said:
I think it must all be very worrying for you, & I’m sorry I can’t help. My thought would be to SORN the Motorhome, as time hopefully would sort out the driving licence, Covid testing, isolation scenario. I know it’s not strictly legal, as you are not in the UK, but it seems the lesser of all the evils to me. I do hope your situation is sorted soon!
Click to expand...

I don't think SORN is now an option as Geoff has already been in discussion about his situation with the DVLA.......

I can't see a possibility of him driving it back.

I'd put it on Ebay ...... 'pick up in Poland' - might be someone from the UK over there with a licence who wants a van - or have it transported back to the UK
 
I wonder if you might have problems coming back into France from the UK after getting your MOT? You will be in a UK registered vehicle, so it might be hard to assert to French at the port, or driving "in the wrong direction" that you are resident of Poland unless you have good documentation to back it up... I don't know how strict French and others are being now. Good luck
 
nicholsong said:
Just to deal with registration in Poland nobody could register RHD now.

Corridors are irrelevant.

I am splitting the MOT issue into two excercises.

Firstly I have to get the MH legally to Dunkirk.

Secondly, I have to get to a) MOT, plus maybe repair, and b) to quarantine address.

On the first at the moment I have no licence and soon no MOT.

On the second Landy Andy has come nearest, in that I could give hotel as quarantine address, then leave UK when it is done. Or as Gus says, the MH as address.

Back to first part. DVLA have blocked their phones, e-mail and webchat and I cannot access their licence application tracking because that only operates for online applications and C1 applications have to be postal.

DVSA have refused MOT extension, 'because they are under DfT instructions.

So off to DfT who control DVLA and DVSA to obtain their e-mail(not on website). I ask helpful lady what is the appropriate e-mail for this problem and she listens, goes off for 4-5 mins. and comes back with e-mail address of the Cabinet Office. My reading of this is that she spoke to somebody who realised it was useless referring me back down the line to DVLA and DVSA, so decided to boot it upstairs.

I have sent an e-mail to the Cabinet Office, saying I was referred by DfT focusing on the difficulty getting to UK and leaving aside the rules for quarantine and MOT test.

I now await while Michael Gove's minions chew it over and reply.

Geoff
Click to expand...
At the moment you would need a negative COVID test to get into and out of uk

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