Itsy bitsy teenie weenie payloads

[thebriars]

Personally I think there is far more to the payload issue than simply quoting figures.

First question one has to decide, is whether one needs to be under the 3500kg limit for driving licences. I have recently turned 70 and decided not to keep the higher limit and go through the faff of medicals every 3 years. My wife will be there soon, and she drives too, so that would be 2 lots of medicals.

Secondly is motorhome use. If staying no more than a week or two at a time, and staying on recognised sites, then one doesn't need to carry much water or too many clothes. Going for long periods often means sets of both winter and summer clothes etc.

Thirdly there is the question of keeping the junk down. A large payload allowance means one can simply throw more and more junk in without thinking, but then fuel consumption will suffer as a result.

Fourthly there are the different road regulations to consider if over 3500kg.

Finally while one might consider a light van a benefit giving more payload, I'm glad to have a more solidly built Benimar and a lesser payload. My lightly built new Elddis caravan I bought last year literally fell apart within the first month of use. Here I'm not talking about the minor issue of loads of cupboard doors and hinges working loose the first time they are used, but cupboards falling off the wall, large plywood surrounds falling off the ceiling, and even the roof itself starting to collapse. For instance, the nearest Elddis motorhome equivalent to my Benimar is over 200kg lighter. Most of that weight saving will be in the construction methinks.

 

[Pausim]

It might help comparisons if all constructors used the same definition of MIRO. I think they are supposed to be based on:
COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 1230/2012
of 12 December 2012
However I get the impression that not all manufacturers have the same interpretation of the rules, or perhaps bend them a bit to suit.

 

[Blue Knight]

Solar panels are fitted as standard on the Benimar 2, 3 and 4 series, therefore included in the unladen weight.

No, it's not.

The solar may be a standard fit but it's not calculated as part of the MIRO so the c10kg weight of the solar should be deducted from the final payload figure. The solar unit is covered under sub-section c below.

 

[thebriars]

No, it's not.

The solar may be a standard fit but it's not calculated as part of the MIRO so the c10kg weight of the solar should be deducted from the final payload figure. The solar unit is covered under sub-section c below.

View attachment 296134

Eh? The solar panel is not optional equipment, it is the standard specification. EVERY UK Benimar series 2, 3 and 4 is fitted with a solar panel as standard.

 

[Jagtazman]

IMO not practical to buy a Motorhome with less than 700 kg payload.

Agree
I feel sorry for poor sods who dont have a c1 on their licence. Next generation are going to struggle wife unfortunately passed late and does not have it bit she will be taking her c1 test at some point.
Our next van will def be 4,4.5 or even 5 ton
Ideally with close to 1000 payload
Although problem worth noting just because you go for a heavy chassis at 4.5t dont give you brilliant payload
Cannot recall the model at NEC however one of them had a silver payload if not less payload for a heavy option

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[gus-lopez]

Eh? The solar panel is not optional equipment, it is the standard specification. EVERY UK Benimar series 2, 3 and 4 is fitted with a solar panel as standard.

But it does not mean it is included in the miro. I'd would put my money on iy coming out of the payload.

I run with an empty tank due to payload issues. I just put water in when I arrive on site. Don't see a problem with that.

No use to me when I don't use sites & only aire de repos to stop on usually. So I fill water & diesel at every opportunity.

 

[Nirvanauk]

But it does not mean it is included in the miro. I'd would put my money on iy coming out of the payload.

No use to me when I don't use sites & only aire de repos to stop on usually. So I fill water & diesel at every opportunity.

Your decision.

 

[Lenny HB]

It has an awning, solar panels, tow bracket and tow bar, that's about it.

That's at least 100kg.

 

[Lenny HB]

Our next van will def be 4,4.5 or even 5 ton
Ideally with close to 1000 payload

Nar, get one with a decent payload.
Best thing we ever did getting a 4 .5t van with over 1350 kg payload. Fully loaded, full tanks still have 400kg spare.

 

[Lenny HB]

Solar panels are fitted as standard on the Benimar 2, 3 and 4 series, therefore included in the unladen weight.

Have a look at your Certificate of Conformity, you should have 2 lines one gives MIRO and the line below is Technical MIRO.
MIRO will be the design weight and Technical MIRO will be the weight including any factory fitted extras, that's the one that will tell you how much payload you have.

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[Nirvanauk]

That's at least 100kg.

Closer to 200kg I think

 

[carolyn]

We have the IH630RL or RD as it's now called with the barn doors. Fully loaded with solar, awning, tow bar, two electric bikes, water, diesel, lpg full, both of us who are about the 75kg. The boot full, including Quest, cupboards full of clothes etc and the fridge full of cider and we weighed in at 3520 so we were pleasantly surprised. It does make you wonder about the accuracy of the weighbridges though. We haven't up plated and just don't run with everything full.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Are any two motorhomes exactly the same, used in the same way, need tanks full/empty...

Infinite variations of options, followed by an infinite number of modifications.

It's the 3.5t bureaucratic limit which is the problem... or allowing use with a car licence.

It's only us conscientious enthusiasts who care about weight. Average Jo Public isn't.

 

[gus-lopez]

It's only us conscientious enthusiasts who care about weight. Average Jo Public isn't.

Exactly.

 

[Lenny HB]

Closer to 200kg I think

I wouldn't have thought so, awning 10 kg/metre, Solar panels 8 kg/per 100 watt, tow bar on a CB are around 50-60kg will be lighter on a PVC supports don't have to go as far forward and bumber irons are removed.

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[thebriars]

But it does not mean it is included in the miro. I'd would put my money on iy coming out of the payload.

I would not put too much money on it, because I weighed mine as soon as I got it with the included payload and it was almost spot on allowing for the auto gearbox and the awning which were the only two extras fitted.

 

[thebriars]

Have a look at your Certificate of Conformity, you should have 2 lines one gives MIRO and the line below is Technical MIRO.
MIRO will be the design weight and Technical MIRO will be the weight including any factory fitted extras, that's the one that will tell you how much payload you have.

Its quite clear. Quote their brochure: "All weights are according to the EU directive 1230/2012 and to the EN 1646-2 srtandard".

The solar panel is NOT, I repeat NOT a factory fitted extra, it is standard on all Benimar series 2, 3, and 4 exported to the UK. You cannot buy a Benimar without the solar panel.

Next you'll be trying to tell me the engine is an extra.

 

[Langtoftlad]

If we can't even agree here on definitions and/or their meanings let alone the relevance... it's not surprising its filed under too difficult.

Plod isn't too bothered, as long as it's not obvious.
Engineering-wise, they're safe enough up to about 3.85t.
Insurance, will they pick up all the pieces, accurately calculate the split water/fuel/wine in the event of being splattered all over a motorway.
Weight might be contributory rather than causal.

 

[EuroTrotters]

La Strada Nova M 3.0 Mercedes Auto Chassis.

80kg

With Driver @ 75kg = 5 kg

 

[Jagtazman]

Nar, get one with a decent payload.
Best thing we ever did getting a 4 .5t van with over 1350 kg payload. Fully loaded, full tanks still have 400kg spare.

Yours is 2 singles right? Is there an island bed alternative?

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[Lenny HB]

Yours is 2 singles right? Is there an island bed alternative?

Yep twin beds, they don't make the Dynamic Line anymore, only made it for 2 years, I don't think there was an island bed version.

 

[Jake Royd]

An interesting topic,

See my thread here which I hope offers a contribution.
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/payload-example-chausson-welcome-85.193969/

When all up for holidays (pretty much all of the time really) I am unable to travel with anything like a full tank of water, if I want to be close to fully laden.

Of course I can just carry on and be in denial, but at least I have an idea of where I am.
I could not weigh individual axles on the only weighbridge for miles around me , however it would be pretty certain my rear axle is overweight.

A good job I keep my tyre pressures at 80psi on the rear , that's their pressure for their max load of I think 1090kg.

Perhaps it doesn't do in the grand scheme of things to obsess too much about payload.
I have a friend who has motorhomed all his life with about 7 vehicles and tells me he has never really considered payload

 

[Mickey1]

Serial-3 should read the following - Sorry Jim:

3. 294: 260kg

Couldn’t resist it,

Mickey

 

[Jim]

Perhaps it doesn't do in the grand scheme of things to obsess too much about payload.
I have a friend who has motorhomed all his life with about 7 vehicles and tells me he has never really considered payload

I'm the same with overtaking. I just close my eyes and hope it will be OK, been doing it years without a problem.

 

[Blue Knight]

Are any two motorhomes exactly the same, used in the same way, need tanks full/empty...

Infinite variations of options, followed by an infinite number of modifications.

It's the 3.5t bureaucratic limit which is the problem... or allowing use with a car licence.

It's only us conscientious enthusiasts who care about weight. Average Jo Public isn't.

You make some very valid points there but for me personally it's the 3.5T-thing that sticks out from the crowd.

If we go further and use a fictitious brand/model for a second, say a Beenamuir 2944, with a manufacturers quoted payload figure of 260kg (incl a solar panel) and a 4-belt, 4-berth configuration, then in reality what are we, in our capacity as the motorhome fraternity, really expecting from this van in terms of its realtime user capability.

Beenamuir states clearly in its 100-page glossy brochure that the 2944 can be driven by any person with a car license but, by openeing up the consumer audience to the under 40-s then this would surely infer, IMO, that the under 40s would also likley be accompanied by their young families and the extra payload needs that go with them.

We then find that a young chap buys a Beenamuir 2944 for him, his missus and his two daughters whereby he then ssumes that everything is OK with his purchase because the sales guy has highlighted the driving license info in the glossy brochure. As usual the dealer avoids all conversation points relating to payload (no change there then), and so a new happy customer is born with all the aspirations of touring the world in his new found purchase.

He has added all the goodies, personal kit, a 2nd hab battery, full water, extra gas, bikes, his missus and daughters (quite essential really) and off he goes into the sun with about 500kg over the MTPLM limit.

This leads me back to the original point, i.e. should it be the sole responsibility of the consumer to do his figures and be legal or, should the ultimate responsibility lie at the feet of the converter to build a certain spec'd product which is usable, fit for purpose and legal to drive; the 'fit for purpose' bit being the main buzz words for me!

If a converter should go to the trouble of designing a van with 4 seats, 4 berths, shower, big fridge, fresh and waste water tanks, loo container, TV mounts, extra battery trays, wardrobes and storage, etc, then surely it's not beyond reasonable expectation to expect these design points to be reflected in the available payload limit.

Conclusion: I think @Jim has got his work cut out with regard to writing this article

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[Blue Knight]

View attachment 296217


Couldn’t resist it,

Mickey

On the heavy chassis Micky.

Nice one good mate but I don't think they have many of those in stock.

Still, that said, it proves that you can be well within the legal limits if you can apply a reasonable level of motorhome knowledge to the problem in the first place.

All the best,

Andrew

P.S. Which van did you reject as it had no payload. Was that you or am I mistaken.

 

[Langtoftlad]

This leads me back to the original point, i.e. should it be the sole responsibility of the consumer to do his figures and be legal or, should the ultimate responsibility lie at the feet of the converter to build a certain spec'd product which is usable, fit for purpose and legal to drive; the 'fit for purpose' bit being the main buzz words for me!

It'll will only become an issue for Mr Joe Bloggs buying, & Dodgy Dealers Ltd selling, if there are a lot of well publicised prosecutions and adverse publicity.
But there won't be... not when the penalties are pathetic & the risk of being caught miniscule...

"The penalties for overloading are:
Vehicle overweight by 5–10% = £100 fine;
vehicle overweight by 10–15% = £200 fine;
vehicle overweight by 15–30% = £300 fine;
more than 30% = court summons; immobilisation of vehicle and £80 fines"
[that's just a maximum £300 fine for being 1 tonne overweight ]

 

[Lenny HB]

It'll will only become an issue for Mr Joe Bloggs buying, & Dodgy Dealers Ltd selling, if there are a lot of well publicised prosecutions and adverse publicity.
But there won't be... not when the penalties are pathetic & the risk of being caught miniscule...

"The penalties for overloading are:
Vehicle overweight by 5–10% = £100 fine;
vehicle overweight by 10–15% = £200 fine;
vehicle overweight by 15–30% = £300 fine;
more than 30% = court summons; immobilisation of vehicle and £80 fines"
[that's just a maximum £300 fine for being 1t overweight ]

Can be a lot more as you can get done each axle and the gross, a few years ago a Hymer owner got done at Nottingham sevices for £180, £60 for over on each axle & gross.
The 5% is only a guide line so they can do you for any overweight.

The silly thing is that a plate weighbridge has a +/- 100 kg tolerance and a dynamic one is +/-150kg (applies to each axle).
So providing you are 150kg under on each axle you are safe if the weighbridge is on the limit.

I don't have a problem with it as I have 300 kg spare on the front & 400 kg spare on the rear & gross 400 kg spare.

 

[Jagtazman]

View attachment 296217


Couldn’t resist it,

Mickey

260kg that's generous
Marquis have a 294 in atm on 3500kg with a staggering 210kg payload

 

[Mickey1]

@Blue Knight , you’re not mistaken, I rejected a chausson with 60kg payload and that was without the missus , I can laugh now but not funny at the time, great support from members on here.

Mickey

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