Is posh diesel worth it?

[TrudeandDall]

I have been delivering fuel for a major supermarket for the last 20+ years, we cannot load any product without additive, in fact our main loading terminal has a “ commercial bay” which only dispenses non addatised diesel and we cannot even load on that one.

Indeed... Supermarkets may get their own additive recipes or in some cases no additives at all. One thing is for sure they will not get the "branded" additive recipe of the major oil company that they are loading ex rack from.
When you buy from a supermarket you will never know what the additive level is, when you buy branded fuel, either in standard or super form, you are guaranteed that fuel companies level of additive.
There are many arguments for and against buying your fuel from different suppliers - its your money and you make your own choy....

 

[Harrogate motorhomer]

Had some glass bowls on my early D Series trucks, those were the days of hanging small paraffin heaters near the fuel line on frosty nights and a bonfire under the engine next morning!
Those were the days!

When I was a nipper my dad worked for a removal & parcel delivery firm. In the holidays I used to go & help out! I remember they had an old Bull nose Austin van & in the winter it didn’t like the cold so to get it going I used to be in the cab pulling the starter handle on the floor while somebody sprayed ether in the air filter & someone cranked it with the starter handle. If this failed we had to push it on to the main road & down the hill. Never didn’t start though.

 

[tonyidle]

Makes no difference, the pipe is at the bottom of the tank the fuel sloshes around shaken and stired whilst driving…you also have a fuel filter for siphoning out any particulates. Should water mix with diesel you will have a colloid. Water will float to the top if you were to get anywhere near that you will have run out of fuel….

Water sinks to the bottom as it is more dense - other than that which mixes with the 5 or 10 % non - Diesel stuff.

 

[jerryz]

Euro 5 and 6 have more problems due all the EGR, AD BLUE , Catalysers and extra sensors , computers etc crap that causes many of the issues .
Euro 4 and older engines are mostly Bomb proof because they are simple

 

[Coolcats]

Water sinks to the bottom as it is more dense - other than that which mixes with the 5 or 10 % non - Diesel stuff.

Makes little difference, how many here talk about starship miles on their vans, if its well maintained and the filters changed most will never have an issue, good maintenance practice goes a long way both on petrol and diesel. How many here have you heard complaining they have had to drain the Fuel tank to get the water out...or stopped on the motorway due to the tank having excess water in? 0%, 00001%, 001% 1%?

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[Coolcats]

Water sinks to the bottom as it is more dense - other than that which mixes with the 5 or 10 % non - Diesel stuff.

I did acknowledge that in a previous post

 

[Daffy64]

Ok, so supermarket fuels aren’t bad, but branded fuels are better, purely because of their additives. You dont point to better MPG, but from your 20+ years diesel engine manufacturing… what’s the advantage?! Honestly curious as to where the difference is. Internal fouling!? I can’t see that additives can do much other than keeping the engine clean.

Someone has asked supermarket or branded, to date we have little more than anecdotal evidence, pub talk, speculation and conjecture. Have you got anything more evidence based to prove an advantage of using additive filled more expensive fuels over base fuels from the supermarket?

By your logic a burger from McDonalds is the same as a burger from Gordon Ramsay as they’ve both got a bun, beef and some ketchup…

If I had evidence do you really think I’d post it on an internet forum, saying that I have been happy to give members here the benefit of my experience, some will take it and others won’t. I won’t lose any sleep over that.

As I’ve already said use whatever fuel you feel happy using.

 

[Daffy64]

I did acknowledge that in a previous post

It does sink to the bottom and Coolcats did indeed acknowledge that but don’t forget that the fuel in your tank is being constantly agitated as you drive by the movement of the vehicle and by the fact that over 80% of what goes into the engine makes its way back to the fuel tank.

 

[Coolcats]

By your logic a burger from McDonalds is the same as a burger from Gordon Ramsay as they’ve both got a bun, beef and some ketchup…

If I had evidence do you really think I’d post it on an internet forum, saying that I have been happy to give members here the benefit of my experience, some will take it and others won’t. I won’t lose any sleep over that.

As I’ve already said use whatever fuel you feel happy using.

Phew that would be dangerous telling Gordon Ramsey his burger was just like a McDonald's one.... it would be funny for about 100th of a second

which reminded me for those who haven't seen it there is the Film "The Menu" and yes a burger is involved....

 

[Daffy64]

The supermarket fuel being lower quality is an urban myth ,, It is proven to be same quality as the Brands , it is delivered in same tankers from same refineries ,,,, Which did a recent study of this as have other consumer champions .My Brother is a fuel systems and engine designer expert scientist and he also concurs .

This could not be further from the truth.

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[Daffy64]

BP and Esso don’t have a refinery. Phillips, Valero, prax, ExxonMobil, Petroineos and Essar are the refinery companies. They supply everyone…

Esso is Exxonmobil and have a refinery in Fawley, BP has a refinery in Germany and maybe others in Europe.

I believe we import Diesel from Europe as we don’t produce enough.

Oils is a global business.

 

[Daffy64]

I have to say this is a gem! One of the best threads for ages.

I followed a Hoyer tanker last year when there were fuel shortages. It had delivered to a Shell garage in Wythenshaw near Manchester Airport and its next stop was a Tesco in Handforth. Comedy was he parked up there for the night as he needed fuel and they were shut. He had to give them their order then buy some of it to get back to home! Driver was waiting for the Mrs to get him. Not a sleeper cab… odd times. But it was nice to know that Tesco Momentum is in fact Shell V Power. I had wondered why my Subaru STi, tuned and very sensitive to fuel had run perfectly on both yet hated Esso or BP ultimate.

Now I run a Fiesta ST slightly Revo tuned. It runs on V-Poser or Momentum happy as can be but I have to wind it down on other fuel.

As to my van. Euro6 Transit Custom. ( saving for inevitable wet belt change thank you)…

It gives me a nice 42mpg at 56mph. Still 38 at 70 so not bad. I tend to use Asda cheapo diesel but Tesco once every four tanks. Worked ok so far and no issues at all.

Serviced annually and mileage not great but almost totally on the M6 between Manchester and Heysham. Yes it does drive nicer than my Subaru….. and more room in the back!

Hoyer are a distribution company, they move fuel for many of the brands, a trailer will usually have 6 compartments each capable of holding different fuels although saying that the front and rear compartments almost always carry diesel (for safety reasons)

It wouldn’t be unusual to supply 2 different locations with different products from the same trailer.

As to Tesco selling shell fuels, it’s possible but unlikely as suppliers outside of the brands buy on price, so if Shell had a surplus of fuel and wanted rid of it then Tesco could buy it but it wouldn’t be usual practice.

 

[Sherlockandwatson]

I doubt it makes a jot of difference, I have run diesels now for over a half million miles and don't get problems using cheap diesel, I would run Red if I could !!

But super unleaded in the mz though I bet ! (Ex mz racer)

 

[Mzracer]

But super unleaded in the mz though I bet ! (Ex mz racer)

Full competition fuel.

Actually I never raced an MZ but I like the history of Ernst Degner and Walter Kaaden, I have been to what remains of the MZ factory and to the museum in Zsohpou (spelling) very interesting and there are some nice places to stay with the motorhome around there.

 

[Joie de vivre]

The DPF in my Merc E Class clogged up last year: the car was sluggish and the gears were being held much longer than normal. I was advised to go for a half hour burn up on the motorway, but as I'd just come back from a four hour motorway trip I didn't bother! I took it to the local MB specialist and they declogged it for me for £250: a great deal less than a new one! It's been going like a race horse ever since...

Please can you tell me what a DPF is?

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[PaulW2]

Diesel particulate filter

 

[Peregrinator]

I use premium fuel on every third fill up, when you do this you don't need no other additives, as the premium fuel already has them, I also add Forte Advanced Formula Diesel Treatment
once a year which cleans the coke, normally put it in when couple gallons in the tank, then do 30 minute drive before filling up.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Why? Seems like the additives is the only difference. The base stock fuel is exactly the same, refined in the same handful of UK refineries. Supermarkets account for about 50% of the fuel sold in the UK, how is it worse? Internal engine fouling rates!?

Maybe it’s a few mpg worse… I think it would be hard to tell in real world driving a difference of 3mpg. I log my work mileage, have done since 2001, 10k miles per year on average, not huge, but it’s to a small number of industrial sites so they are repeated journeys on the same routes and I get 10-20mph swings in average mpg from my cars depending on the number of short journeys, the speed/traffic on the motorway, the weather. You would have to do a lot of back to back testing to see a real world difference in mpg.

My experience was that my Vectra stopped having lambda sensor problems accompanied by the engine warning light after I switched to super unleaded. Even though it was supposedly designed to run on ordinary unleaded. It certainly felt a lot livelier under acceleration.

Now we read horror stories related to the bio fuel percentage so I try to use as little of that biocrap as possible.

 

[Blaydon]

It does sink to the bottom and Coolcats did indeed acknowledge that but don’t forget that the fuel in your tank is being constantly agitated as you drive by the movement of the vehicle and by the fact that over 80% of what goes into the engine makes its way back to the fuel tank.

Hi all, I found this discussion really interesting. As well as the point raised by Daffy64, that the fuel is agitated, I would point out to those who ‘never let it get below half’, or what ever point they choose, that the fuel it taken from the bottom of the tank or you would run out before it is empty. So there is no point topping up as you are getting the ‘crud’ anyway.
Our tank is tiny, only 60l, so if we were to only use the top half before stopping to fill up, we would spend more time in filling stations than sites.
Just a thought.

 

[Outdoors Dad]

Just put £80 of V power diesel in my daily drive as I have heard fuel going up. I paid £1.42 per litre. I treat it now and again.

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[Puddleduck]

Maybe different laws over there.
Here, red is for agriculture machines and small boats.
Get caught with red in your tank you're looking for a new vehicle AND a mortgage to pay the fine.
Red is exactly the same as road diesel with a red dye.
The dye is indelible so once it's been in the tank its red for life.....even if later filled with regular diesel.

And if a previous owner used red diesel and you get stopped it's a can of worms.

 

[L' Hobo]

And if a previous owner used red diesel and you get stopped it's a can of worms.

I think they already know how long you have owned the vehicle so, it's it's 10yrs, you might have a problem blaming the previous owners?

 

[Puddleduck]

I think they already know how long you have owned the vehicle so, it's it's 10yrs, you might have a problem blaming the previous owners?

But if you have only had it a very short time? Here there are occasional crack downs on red diesel use.

 

[gus-lopez]

And if a previous owner used red diesel and you get stopped it's a can of worms.

I had that back in 1984 .Bloke had a second tank only accessed from underneath. the opposite tank with filler was full of road diesel.They had been after him for years but couldn't prove he ran on red. I bought it , ran the red out , refilled twice with 160 litres of road fuel & used that then cut the second filler. A month or so later they spotted it near my mother's & went door knocking until they found me & wanted to dip the 'new' tank .
Bloke went to great lengths telling me they'd been after him for years & now I was going to get stuck with the blame.

Quite deflated when I told him that A) I didn't live here ,it was only an accommodation address ,B) I was leaving the UK permanently inside 10 days & C) I'd be amazed if they found any red in it .Which they didn't .

These days it is different as I believe they use gas spectometers(?)

 

[L' Hobo]

But if you have only had it a very short time? Here there are occasional crack downs on red diesel use.

I know, I used to run trucks!

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[gus-lopez]

I've just bought another 100 litres of 'posh' diesel in advance of the price rises when the israeli's nuke iran's oilfields

 

[Daffy64]

I had that back in 1984 .Bloke had a second tank only accessed from underneath. the opposite tank with filler was full of road diesel.They had been after him for years but couldn't prove he ran on red. I bought it , ran the red out , refilled twice with 160 litres of road fuel & used that then cut the second filler. A month or so later they spotted it near my mother's & went door knocking until they found me & wanted to dip the 'new' tank .
Bloke went to great lengths telling me they'd been after him for years & now I was going to get stuck with the blame.

Quite deflated when I told him that A) I didn't live here ,it was only an accommodation address ,B) I was leaving the UK permanently inside 10 days & C) I'd be amazed if they found any red in it .Which they didn't .

These days it is different as I believe they use gas spectometers(?)

I know an operator who had a very elaborate tank that had a normal filler with a tube to the bottom that wasn’t connected to the rest of the tank - that contained about 5 ltrs that never went anywhere.

The rest of the tank was full of red diesel and filled via a false tank stack blank.

He went on for years until they changed the process and scraped his tailpipe to check - HMRC had known he was at it for years so when they confirmed there was red in there they had the tank off and x-rayed it.

To say they took him to the cleaners would be an understatement…

 

[Winger]

A mate of mine had a 400 litre tank manufactured and fitted in the sleeper cab of his artic bed.
Needless to say the cab suspension was non existent

 

[EuroTrotters]

*Read to end for result

I use Repsol premium in Spain. I have the waylet app so get a discount anyway.


We have an Audi A3 1.9TDie.

It’s attains around 60 mpg so it’s no great expense. I can get from Valencia to Manchester Via Bilbao/Santander ferry on one Tank.

In the UK, I use my local Tesco for our Toyota 3.5 V6 petrol, as it needs high octane fuel and Tesco is the cheapest.

Motorhome, my car and my Van , I do use Tesco but if I am nearby and can be bothered queuing, I buy Texaco premium at Costco .

In my Van, 190 BHP Mercedes Sprinter Auto, I can feel the better response and power of posh diesel from Costco, same with the motorhome. But not in my car. Range Rover 4.4 V8 Diesel

 

[Spriddler]

I've just bought another 100 litres of 'posh' diesel in advance of the price rises when the israeli's nuke iran's oilfields

I did exactly the same this afternoon at Tesco (£1.39 per L) and because it also fills the tank before minimal winter use.

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