Is posh diesel worth it?

[Clive Beeza]

What is the additive you can add yourself. Where do you get it?

Cat-a Clean diesel additive (they also make a petrol version)
most car spares shops or on line,
use about twice a year in a 1/2 tankfull of diesel

 

[BeeHappy]

yeah, I’m not sold on the MPG advantage. I just want to avoid having to spend another £7k on Fiat parts when the DPF clogs up.
The strong recommendation when discussing that was “posh diesel or additive” both here and on the Fiat forums.

My hunch is additive is better and cheaper.

Is it a fiat problem or a diesel problem!?

 

[kingy58]

We had an issue with our (Renault Master) motorhome last year in France and the mechanic's first question was 'Have you filled up at a supermarket?' We had. He explained how poor the quality is. We've just done 2 months in France and only filled at TotalEnergies stations. When using a tank of Excellium (their Super stuff) at about €0.09/litre more expensive, we get about 3 mpg improvement and the van definitely runs better.

 

[mikeflinz]

I worked for BP for most of my working days, at one point as a storage terminal shift manager. The ultimate diesel grades got double the additives when compared to standard grades, and supermarkets (mostly) got what they paid for = cheap diesel - no additives.
The additives were very expensive to buy in from Europe, so they must have done some good.
I fill my van with the cheapest I can find from a major brand = a good level of additive without paying over the top and not running on basic brews..........

I have been delivering fuel for a major supermarket for the last 20+ years, we cannot load any product without additive, in fact our main loading terminal has a “ commercial bay” which only dispenses non addatised diesel and we cannot even load on that one.

 

[Apacheman]

So come on, should I put the expensive in or say one in three times?
Just a definitive answer please, I can’t cope with all the explanations and science.
My brain hurts.

Not sure how much good it does but the wife has a Shell card and every now and then she gets £3 off the next fuel up. A couple of times a year we get Diesel+ using the £3 off at our local Shell garage.
Despite what everyone says about fuel a longer journey at 2000rpm+ will do more to clean out DPFs etc.

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[MichaelT]

Not sure how much good it does but the wife has a Shell card and every now and then she gets £3 off the next fuel up. A couple of times a year we get Diesel+ using the £3 off at our local Shell garage.
Despite what everyone says about fuel a longer journey at 2000rpm+ will do more to clean out DPFs etc.

Agree vans sitting doing nothing then driven at 40mph is worst. Good blast up motorway for a couple of hours regularly will keep it clean.

 

[yorkiebar]

I assume you need to be a member at Costco to buy fuel there?

Yup, you have to scan your Costco membership card at the pump before it will dispense.

 

[Raul]

I assume you need to be a member at Costco to buy fuel there?

Yes, or have a member fried to add you to their account and have your own card. The £36yearly trade membership with two cards is well worth it. They had castrol 5w30 oil cheapest compared to anywhere on line. As well as freezer shopping can be shared-split from larger packs. Lots of benefits.

 

[KASPAR]

Yup, you have to scan your a Costco membership card at the pump before it will dispense.

FTFY as in some there is a check of the photograph to the filler upper and in others people who claim to have left their's at home so can they use yours

 

[The POPs]

Since the debacle with Denby needing new injectors, DPF and two EGRs I’ve been using posh diesel and adding cleaner when I can’t find that.

Filling up the other day in the UK I did the mental arithmetic and posh diesel costs about £14 extra over a full tank. RedX diesel additive costs £3 for the same tank £6 if you double up.

Is posh diesel from a big refinery actually that much better - or at all than the tiny extra hassle of a bottle of cleaner?

Rp

Since the debacle with Denby needing new injectors, DPF and two EGRs I’ve been using posh diesel and adding cleaner when I can’t find that.

Filling up the other day in the UK I did the mental arithmetic and posh diesel costs about £14 extra over a full tank. RedX diesel additive costs £3 for the same tank £6 if you double up.

Is posh diesel from a big refinery actually that much better - or at all than the tiny extra hassle of a bottle of cleaner?

We have our been our Motorhomes and now our now Carthago for many years and many thousands of miles (kilometres), in the UK and most of Europe.
Always used (cheapest) normal Diesel with no additives, and no issues with engines or MOTs in the UK and now Portugal where 4.2 ton (and UK V5 HGV) means HEAVY GOODS VEHICLE….sames as a lorries.

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[Just smiffy]

I’ve no doubt that premium fuels are better for the engine but for the time and miles that we have our vans it probably doesn’t make any or very little difference unless you keep the van for 20yrs and do 200k….

 

[Marky146]

I have to say this is a gem! One of the best threads for ages.

I followed a Hoyer tanker last year when there were fuel shortages. It had delivered to a Shell garage in Wythenshaw near Manchester Airport and its next stop was a Tesco in Handforth. Comedy was he parked up there for the night as he needed fuel and they were shut. He had to give them their order then buy some of it to get back to home! Driver was waiting for the Mrs to get him. Not a sleeper cab… odd times. But it was nice to know that Tesco Momentum is in fact Shell V Power. I had wondered why my Subaru STi, tuned and very sensitive to fuel had run perfectly on both yet hated Esso or BP ultimate.

Now I run a Fiesta ST slightly Revo tuned. It runs on V-Poser or Momentum happy as can be but I have to wind it down on other fuel.

As to my van. Euro6 Transit Custom. ( saving for inevitable wet belt change thank you)…

It gives me a nice 42mpg at 56mph. Still 38 at 70 so not bad. I tend to use Asda cheapo diesel but Tesco once every four tanks. Worked ok so far and no issues at all.

Serviced annually and mileage not great but almost totally on the M6 between Manchester and Heysham. Yes it does drive nicer than my Subaru….. and more room in the back!

 

[SpeedyDux]

Yes most of them euro5 or less. Trouble comes with euro 6 and need to keep injectors clean. The twin EGR motor that Jane And Rog have is unfortunately a special case with the ability to deposit more sh1t than is preffered so the idea is to keep it moving and converted to CO2 H20 and out of the exhaust or soot trapped in DPF. Regular cleaning of injectors is also suggested due to their propensity to burn their tips. As is usual with Ducato low mileage is more of a problem than interstellar miles, though 180,000miles is a popular milage for issues with blocked /cracked DPFs. The use of variable Bio fuels will increase aggravation as does diesel bug ( a known variable in LPEGR cooler syndrome).

Mine is one of the double EGR Euro 6 without adblu so I stick to premium diesel as much as possible (Esso or Shell mainly) and that seems to avoid issues.

 

[VXman]

Yes, or have a member fried to add you to their account and have your own card. The £36yearly trade membership with two cards is well worth it. They had castrol 5w30 oil cheapest compared to anywhere on line. As well as freezer shopping can be shared-split from larger packs. Lots of benefits.

sounds ok. didn't realise it was that cheap. Unfortunatly we don;t have a costco petrol station near to us.

 

[KASPAR]

£1.25 per litre for Premium diseasel at Reading today

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[BeeHappy]

not really related to additives, BUT.....A fella I knew ages back was in bulk fuel sales for Gulf a good while back in the day, told me, you get esso if you are near and esso refinery even if you are a BP garage, and BP if you are near a BP refinery delivered to an esso garage and vice versa, is that right TrudeandDall

BP and Esso don’t have a refinery. Phillips, Valero, prax, ExxonMobil, Petroineos and Essar are the refinery companies. They supply everyone…

 

[SpeedyDux]

We had an issue with our (Renault Master) motorhome last year in France and the mechanic's first question was 'Have you filled up at a supermarket?' We had. He explained how poor the quality is. We've just done 2 months in France and only filled at TotalEnergies stations. When using a tank of Excellium (their Super stuff) at about €0.09/litre more expensive, we get about 3 mpg improvement and the van definitely runs better.

I also stuck to Total Energie Excellium diesel on this year's French trip. I didn't check the mpg but it seemed to last well between fill-ups.

I had to use an unmanned automated card-only Total Energie 24h pump near Calais and that was a novel experience.

 

[SpeedyDux]

£1.25 per litre for Premium diseasel at Reading today

Ratchel Thieves is going to put a stop to that kind of thing! (boo hiss)

 

[BeeHappy]

My advice would be as already said, use a std branded diesel and not supermarket fuel

I would concur with TrudeandDall - I’ve been 40 years technical with the last 20 + as the UK Technical lead for a major high speed diesel engine manufacturer.

Why? Seems like the additives is the only difference. The base stock fuel is exactly the same, refined in the same handful of UK refineries. Supermarkets account for about 50% of the fuel sold in the UK, how is it worse? Internal engine fouling rates!?

Maybe it’s a few mpg worse… I think it would be hard to tell in real world driving a difference of 3mpg. I log my work mileage, have done since 2001, 10k miles per year on average, not huge, but it’s to a small number of industrial sites so they are repeated journeys on the same routes and I get 10-20mph swings in average mpg from my cars depending on the number of short journeys, the speed/traffic on the motorway, the weather. You would have to do a lot of back to back testing to see a real world difference in mpg.

 

[Spriddler]

An American bloke down the pub told me that using supermarket diesel was a major cause of damp in motorhomes.

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[Daffy64]

Why? Seems like the additives is the only difference. The base stock fuel is exactly the same, refined in the same handful of UK refineries. Supermarkets account for about 50% of the fuel sold in the UK, how is it worse? Internal engine fouling rates!?

Maybe it’s a few mpg worse… I think it would be hard to tell in real world driving a difference of 3mpg. I log my work mileage, have done since 2001, 10k miles per year on average, not huge, but it’s to a small number of industrial sites so they are repeated journeys on the same routes and I get 10-20mph swings in average mpg from my cars depending on the number of short journeys, the speed/traffic on the motorway, the weather. You would have to do a lot of back to back testing to see a real world difference in mpg.

Additives are the only difference but I’m not really talking about MPG and I’m not saying supermarket fuels are bad, what I’m saying is in my experience Branded fuels are better.

I would assume that premium diesels are better again but haven’t experience with those as my concern was engine damage through poor quality fuels. (Not bought from the supermarkets)

Like all of us you decide what you want to put in your tank and enjoy the benefits as you go…

 

[U.Toadifact]

I use premium fuels in my car (petrol) and my van, (diesel of course) exclusively. In the van I regularly achieve over 34mpg having travelled a couple of hundred miles on mostly motorways cruising at 55mph and managed 35.19mpg on our last trip. On regular fuel which I used when I first bought the van I struggled to achieve 30mpg.

 

[BeeHappy]

Additives are the only difference but I’m not really talking about MPG and I’m not saying supermarket fuels are bad, what I’m saying is in my experience Branded fuels are better.

I would assume that premium diesels are better again but haven’t experience with those as my concern was engine damage through poor quality fuels. (Not bought from the supermarkets)

Like all of us you decide what you want to put in your tank and enjoy the benefits as you go…

Ok, so supermarket fuels aren’t bad, but branded fuels are better, purely because of their additives. You dont point to better MPG, but from your 20+ years diesel engine manufacturing… what’s the advantage?! Honestly curious as to where the difference is. Internal fouling!? I can’t see that additives can do much other than keeping the engine clean.

Someone has asked supermarket or branded, to date we have little more than anecdotal evidence, pub talk, speculation and conjecture. Have you got anything more evidence based to prove an advantage of using additive filled more expensive fuels over base fuels from the supermarket?

 

[Tombola]

I had a problem with my 2.4 car and called rover one time the first meaningful question was "do I use supermarket fuel regularly"

 

[Tanya_and_Mick]

V-Power, Ultimate, +10 or Excellence, everytime for us

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[jerryz]

I dont bother with posh diesel but every 3 months put redex in MOHO but im forced to use E5 petrol in 3 of my motorcycles as they have have carbs that get destroyed if you put E10 in and they dont run right on it either .So I have to pay 15p a litre extra for E5 .

Did some experimenst a few years ago on E10 one bike had 100hp on dyno and did 38mpg but with E5 in it did 115hp on Dyno and 46mpg ,,, and with Pure non ethanol 97 Benzine it got 117hp and 48mpg

So gasohol E10 is crap less mpg, less power ...

 

[jerryz]

The supermarket fuel being lower quality is an urban myth ,, It is proven to be same quality as the Brands , it is delivered in same tankers from same refineries ,,,, Which did a recent study of this as have other consumer champions .My Brother is a fuel systems and engine designer expert scientist and he also concurs .

 

[Jane And Rog]

Thanks everyone, especially Daffy64 for actual hard info.

I’m going to infer from some of the comments (e.g. from Plynchy) that that the additives the big brands formulate are better than RedX etc. At least they won’t be worse and one thing that I hadn’t really considered is that the dosing will be more accurate.

Finally as the1andonly says, my twin EGR engine is more prone to problems poorer fuel causes and when they happen, those problems are expensive so, I guess from my point of view it’s not worth the minor saving.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

I use premium fuels in my car (petrol) and my van, (diesel of course) exclusively. In the van I regularly achieve over 34mpg having travelled a couple of hundred miles on mostly motorways cruising at 55mph and managed 35.19mpg on our last trip. On regular fuel which I used when I first bought the van I struggled to achieve 30mpg.

Probably more variables to be factored in, how old was the van when you got it, and what milage had it already covered, diesels deliver better economy as they age but it drops off as they get old.
Mike.

 

[Brian Thompson]

Never bought a litre of posh diesel or Redex for either 12 year old car or 11 year motorhome. Nigh on always supermarket fuel.

Me also never had a sniff of a problem

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