Interesting EV fuel cost example

[Coolcats]

This may be worthy of discussion I have just copied and pasted from the article bt if this is the cost of EV's I suspect wakeup is going to be much slower.

Costs​

Fully charge at home before departure: approx £20; miles added: 180

Fast top-up at services on outward journey: £19.62; miles added: 55

Slow top-up in Bristol: £5 approx; miles added: 30

Super-fast top-up at services on return journey: £43.45; miles added: 126

Total: £88.07

Diesel cost for same journey: assuming 55mpg and 173.9p per litre, £50.24

Petrol cost for same journey: assuming 45mpg and 150.9p per litre, £53.28
That leads me to conclude that the arguments for and against electric cars as it currently stands are complex - even more so with the cost of electricity having risen substantially. If, like most people I suspect, you do mostly local driving (to work, the shops, out for dinner, etc) with the occasional long journey mixed in every few weeks, it makes a lot of sense when you can do most of your charging at home, especially if you've got a proper 7kw home charger installed and aren't running an extension lead out of a window like I was.


If you do mostly long journeys, the current expense of using service station chargers starts to make this a lot more difficult. If I had done all of my charging on the 79p charger, for example, my total cost would have been even more - £130 - nearly three times the diesel price.

And none of this takes into account two other crucial factors - the cost of the car itself and the environmental aspect. With electric cars obviously emitting no carbon into the atmosphere, you may well be willing to pay a premium to be green

 

[Oldrat]

Broken Link Removed

Volvo was able to compare two identical models, one EV and one ICE, directly side by side as they happen to make both on the same production line. It takes into account the entire costs of making and using an EV & ICE.

It’s impossible to not take their report seriously.

Their C40 Recharge (pure electric) has a lower total (whole life) carbon footprint than the XC40 ICE (E5 petrol) for all the analysed sources of electricity for the use phase.

•Materials production and refining, battery module production and manufacturing at Volvo Cars for a C40 Recharge results in nearly 70per cent higher GHG emissions compared to an XC40 ICE (E5 petrol)


So depending on where you get your leccky from (renewable or coal), an EV will take up to 70k miles to lose that huge manufacturing carbon footprint, and become greener than an ICE.

And by then most folks will have chopped it in for something newer ( using a fresh lot of stuff dug out of the ground)

 

[Fdhadi]

How much time is wasted on
A. A Fast Top Up
B. Slow Top Up
C. Super Fast Top Up

My Diesel Car has enough Fuel from full to do the same trip again without stopping.
What about the Environmental factor in the disposable of the Electric Car Batteries when they reach the end of life.

 

[urban_biker]

Some of the cost of fast commercial charging will probably reduce as more charging points are installed. I think some providers are just making hay due to the current limited number of chargers. 75p per kwh (instavolt) is pretty much price gouging IMHO although it doesn't stop me paying it when I have to.

If most of your driving is within 100 miles from home and you charge overnight at 7.5p per kwh (Octopus Go) Then there is still a cost benefit.

However then you have to factor in the huge capital cost of buying an electric car. It pretty much only works for me due to company car tax perks.

Cars and batteries are going to have to become much cheaper if electric is going to go fully mainstream, and charging infrastructure will have to improve and get cheaper as well.

 

[Trevor Wbm]

I'm ditching my MG PHEV soon, getting a Hyundai full hybrid. There's no cost benefit on the electric miles now my electricity charges have gone from £117 a month to £250.

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[Coolcats]

I'm ditching my MG PHEV soon, getting a Hyundai full hybrid. There's no cost benefit on the electric miles now my electricity charges have gone from £117 a month to £250.

I do believe the price cap is rising from £2500 for the average household to £3000 in April if this does happen it means the cost of energy is going up again.

 

[Coop]

I purchased a Tesla Model 3 Long Range about 18 months back.
I charge it at home on the Intelligent Octopus tariff at 7.5p per kwh and have never charged past 80% (roughly 270 miles). The only times charging away from home have been, once on Tesla supercharger (very good, very fast, convenient but 69p per kwh) and a number of occasions on "Destination" chargers (usually free or very cheap but slow) at restaurants, supermarkets and especially hotels where the car will be parked for hours, or overnight, anyway.

The car is great, I love it. It was expensive but not when compared to the others I considered and test drove. The Tesla customer service also far outstripped all of the other dealers. The Tesla app on my phone allows me to log my spending on charging as well as control almost everything on the car and track it.

The issue with EVs is the charging network, it is not only too expensive but far too sparse and very unreliable. If filling stations had some of the issues suffered by EV chargers there would be riots.

My advice to anyone considering moving to an EV is don't, unless you can charge at home on a specific EV tariff and your chosen car has a range which exceeds your normal mileage needs.

 

[Tombola]

How old is that article ? Seem to remember it months back.
There have been a few studies the main one by what car .. that say ...on average diesel /petrol needs to be around £1.00 per.litre to make it cheaper to run.

My car is .41p at superchargers and 12p at home

 

[mikebeaches]

I'm ditching my MG PHEV soon, getting a Hyundai full hybrid. There's no cost benefit on the electric miles now my electricity charges have gone from £117 a month to £250.

When you say 'full hybrid' do you mean a standard non-plug-in hybrid?

I've been considering getting a PHEV for some time, because we generate loads of excess solar from April to October, and a modest excess a month either side of that, which is currently all exported to Octopus.

But given the upfront capital cost of a PHEV and the relatively modest mileage we drive - mostly local trips, with occasional longer journeys, it's hard to see it being sensible when judged purely from a financial perspective. However, having driven a couple of hybrid rental cars, I liked electric driving and also the thought of reducing our personal carbon footprint.

 

[Trevor Wbm]

When you say 'full hybrid' do you mean a standard non-plug-in hybrid?

I've been considering getting a PHEV for some time, because we generate loads of excess solar from April to October, and a modest excess a month either side of that, which is currently all exported to Octopus.

But given the upfront capital cost of a PHEV and the relatively modest mileage we drive - mostly local trips, with occasional longer journeys, it's hard to see it being sensible when judged purely from a financial perspective. However, having driven a couple of hybrid rental cars, I liked electric driving and also the thought of reducing our personal carbon footprint.

Yes, non plug-in. Partly because the dealer made us good offer on the MG HS PHEV we got from them in June 21, and partly because the MG has some known 'features' and foibles that can be a bit frustrating, on top of the EV miles now being no cheaper than the petrol ones. When EV mode was half the price of petrol, it was a good value car with some quirks. They're still relatively cheap, but the quirks less endearing.

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[Just smiffy]

At Christmas I put £100 in my bmw 520 touring, I drove from near Redruth Cornwall to Inverurie Scotland in one tank full and some left…. It amused me when stopping at services the amount of ev’s queuing to get plugged in and still queuing/waiting when after I had my lunch and coffee…..

 

[dunnah01]

How do you get onto these Uber cheap overnight tariffs. If I try to even get a quote there is nothing available from any supplier I've tried. I want it for heating the house but Lecky is lecky

 

[Tombola]

How do you get onto these Uber cheap overnight tariffs. If I try to even get a quote there is nothing available from any supplier I've tried. I want it for heating the house but Lecky is lecky

Nine available really now..they are all done before the problems I think.

 

[brynric]

Horses for courses.
My horse is always charged at home, does about 1000miles a month- enough for shopping, grand-children and extensive pottering. The range means we never have to use commercial charges. Obviously holidays/tours done in the Moho.
Our last quarterly bill (October) was just £161. This is all the household electric and car mileage @ about 16p per kw.
Our neighbour would struggle with an Ev as he has parents on the south coast and grandchildren in Glasgow.
They will work for some but not for all….yet.

 

[Coop]

How do you get onto these Uber cheap overnight tariffs. If I try to even get a quote there is nothing available from any supplier I've tried. I want it for heating the house but Lecky is lecky

Intelligent Octopus is solely for EVs. Octopus control my car's charging via the internet and tell it when to charge.
They send me its charging plan each evening.

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[DJL220]

Counting the days until I can get rid of my Tesla M3 SR + company car (USA made).
The range is meant to be 255 miles best I have managed in the summer is about 180 and winter around 150. This doesn’t include the phantom drain when it’s cold. Tesla have had the car for three weeks trying to find a random alarm issue and check the range. All within specification. To increase the range drive less than 70 mph, without heating or A/C is what I was told by the service team. Done that and nearly feel asleep
Just about to top out at 30k miles and have around another 18 months left.
So miss my Focus ST I had prior to the Tesla.
Will I get another EV - nope not until the batteries are swappable or the range is actually much better.

 

[Puddleduck]

I saw the advert for the new Nissan ARIVA with an advertised range of 300+ miles and thought "that would just about work for us" so I looked at the brochure and added the conditions of our last trip to my Mum's ...... 135 or 183 mile range on 19" tyres and 124 or 168 mile range on 20" tyres depending on which battery spec (which isn't enough range). We go to Mum's two weekends out of three - it's a 120 mile round trip and nowhere to recharge at Mum's.

The last thing I would want is to have to have a trip to our local hospital (52 mile round trip - or near enough 100 miles if we have to go to Edinburgh), get home and only have a part recharge before we need to make a emergency night dash to Mum's as is becoming more frequent. At least with diesel I can always top up on the way home and always have plenty of fuel in both car tank and a 20ltr emergency can "just in case".

I just hope our dino juice wagon lasts a bit longer. We'll keep it on the road until it can't be repaired economically.

 

[autorouter]

•Materials production and refining, battery module production and manufacturing at Volvo Cars for a C40 Recharge results in nearly 70per cent higher GHG emissions compared to an XC40 ICE (E5 petrol)

If we're playing at finding big percentages from the figures, how about this one. If you exclude the materials production and refining, battery module production and manufacturing at Volvo Cars, the XC40 ICE has over 10,000 percent higher GHG emissions compared to a C40 Recharge running on green electricity.

 

[enark]

Just to counter the , cost of EVs will decrease, and the cost of charging will decrease argument.

well yes maybe it will, but then the government will see tax tax tax….and the cost will again increase…

happy EV ing chaps, but I will stick to my trusty diesel thanks (as probably 99% of folk on here do anyway, it’s the Ducato, Merc, Transit, VW diesel stuck under your MH)..

 

[Tombola]

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[EuroTrotters]

I have looked at EV's many times.

But the costs just do not add up, yet.

 

[PaulOH]

The neighbour ran a 100% electric Renault Zoe for a while which he leased. It was lovely - very smooth and charged 100% at home for a daily round trip into the city of about 100kms. He really liked it and it was v.cheap to run (don't know what the lease cost him per month but the car was being used). We called it the 'millenium falcon' cos of the noise it made.

That was until the battery pack suffered a career-ending failure one day in the city centre and the car was kaput. Don't know the ins and outs completely, but it was not replaced and he's back to his 2003 Renault Kangoo runaround for any local driving and uses the train to go into the city instead.

He says he's very lucky that he has the train as a reasonable alternative (it's free now where I live), but I think that the way that our infrastructure has been developed over the last 80 years has become so car-centred that EVs - with the main problem being a lack of range - are still considered preferable to other forms of transport.

EVs would do a great job in towns and cities, but they take up too much room on the roads, need parking and then have to be charged on a network that is extremely challenging to provide to a high-rise, high density area. Apart from no smoke, what's the difference being stuck in a traffic jam of EVs or regular cars - you still arrive late and there is congestion.

EVs are - according to the thread - being marketed to people as direct replacement for petrol and diesel, yet the issues of trying to use them like a petrol or diesel car are apparent. I'm sure some people have journey distances and types which are quite okay and they get on well with their EV - like my neighbour was until his car became non-operational, but many people do not.

A friend who's family own a house in southern Spain told me that they got the hard sell when time came to replace their house 'banger' with something decent. They use maybe 8-12 times a year and ended up with a petrol hybrid Nissan Note, which I'm told cannot be plugged in. Battery deterioration from discharge has the car on it's 3rd battery pack. The cost of the latest battery swap remains the subject of a dispute between the dealer and said family.

For us MH'ers, I can't see any electric way forward just yet - but maybe that's just as well. However, I am very concious of the impact of the diesel my MH uses and can't deny that when it's running, it is not environmentally friendly, so I try to avoid running it unless I'm using it for an important purpose where it can do something useful.

I try to think about the fact that it is now an elderly vehicle, which took energy to make - rather than using energy to build a new one by replacing it. I use secondhand spares where possible, the energy consumption of the vehicle when in use as accommodation is dramatically less than going to a hotel or apartment and it substitutes the use of another vehicle to travel to a hotel at the destination. Plus I'm a hell of a lightfooted driver.

I suppose we can slant things whatever way we like to make it suit our conscience!

 

[jongood]

How do you get onto these Uber cheap overnight tariffs. If I try to even get a quote there is nothing available from any supplier I've tried. I want it for heating the house but Lecky is lecky

Tbf some of this is caused by the energy cap, if you go onto fuel comparison websites, they've been warning that switching could compromise or even make you lose the payment. This will probably change as the energy market sorts itself out post Putin

 

[jongood]

If we're playing at finding big percentages from the figures, how about this one. If you exclude the materials production and refining, battery module production and manufacturing at Volvo Cars, the XC40 ICE has over 10,000 percent higher GHG emissions compared to a C40 Recharge running on green electricity.

The planet is probably much better off if we were all to keep the cars we already have.

 

[Wh05apk]

Just wondered, if diesel is so good, why do we not all just run our engines in our motorhomes rather than rely on batteries?

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[funflair]

Just wondered, if diesel is so good, why do we not all just run our engines in our motorhomes rather than rely on batteries?

Because that would be silly diesel is very well suited to running IC engines for propulsion and batteries are ideally suited to storing solar energy for lights and pumps.

 

[Coolcats]

Tbf some of this is caused by the energy cap, if you go onto fuel comparison websites, they've been warning that switching could compromise or even make you lose the payment. This will probably change as the energy market sorts itself out post Putin

Although I’m not sure prices will fall back to previous levels share holders have to be paid along with the CEO and the top team and leaving a very healthy profit in the bank.

 

[jongood]

Although I’m not sure prices will fall back to previous levels share holders have to be paid along with the CEO and the top team and leaving a very healthy profit in the bank.

I don't think we need to worry too much, all the windfall tax will soon sort it out - the treasury that is

 

[eurajohn]

Just wondered, if diesel is so good, why do we not all just run our engines in our motorhomes rather than rely on batteries?

How do you suggest to start the engine????

 

[Coolcats]

How do you suggest to start the engine????

There are many vehicles you can start by hand or have we all gone soft

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