Interesting article about grey water disposal on "highway drains"....

[Jev88]

I used a CMC site just last week and when I inquired if I could use a different Motorhome Service point on a "closed" section of camp they said yes and agreed it was better for all as my RV would otherwise block the road (black tanks on board). His words.... "Yes mate, there's a drop through grill on the floor, get rid of your waste there please" ..... I asked, "ALL my waste?"..... He replied YES!........... I then mentioned how surprised I was they allowed black waste and grey down the same drain and he turned pale..... Apparently never occured to him the 7.5 tonne Motorhome in front of him would have a black tank. There was a liftable manhole cover very close to the grey water grill...... I wonder how often the wrong stuff goes down their grill?

 

[Ridgeway]

I suppose this means that homeowners washing their cars in the street with soapy water draining into the drains will be issued a fixed penalty notice?

Here yes that is the case (Switzerland) no car washing allowed into public water drainage, it’s handled separately. Grey water would be treated as the same due to detergents.

 

[Riverbankannie]

I’m not sure how to stop car washing running into drains. Our drive is one of only a few where the drive slopes to the house rather than out to the road.

 

[Folkranger]

Ignoring all the wild creatures' poo that goes into rainwater drains. And ponds, ditches etc. A far from sterile environment.

Not to mention all the polutants that fall to the road from vehicles and get washed down these gullies. Rubber, oils, carbon emissions, brake dust........

 

[L' Hobo]

Let me be clear here. I'm not advocating we tip all of our grey water down road drains. I'm highlighting that there are double standards when it comes to tackling what goes down highway drains. And simply fining a motorhome hire company is not really tackling the problem.

There is a thing called vicarious liability, which I think is how they've fined the motorhome hire company. I'm certain a good lawyer could rightly get the fine revoked. It's probably because they didn't put a massive sign in the hire van stating not to put grey water down a road drain.

It does need a definitive answer from the department of the environment to enlighten and direct us all. After all there are companies selling and installing ' natural' water cleaning solutions, such as reed beds. As highlighted in the house building programmes in C4.

All my Organic Smallholding water went through a Septic Tank BEFORE it went into the reed beds. You cannot just throw anything into reeds and expect it to clean & purify it!

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[DavidG58]

Also my business uses chemicals to clean inks from screens of a printing process..we have a meter attached showing how many thousands litres a week go down and how much plastisol residue..all passed as ok by the water companies to go via the same drains as rainwater runoff from the roof and road.

When you say authorised by the water company that means it discharges to foul sewer and goes to the local sewage treatment works

To discharge to a surface water drain you would need a permit from the Environment Agency which I am confident they wouldn’t issue

Where does it say can’t empty on to grass

Below is copied from the linked article

I don’t believe it can be authentic or true

Under the Environmental Permitting Regulations 2016, any discharge of greywater to either a watercourse or to the ground must either be subject to a permit granted by the Environment Agency or fall within the definition of an exempt activity

 

[daveclare]

All my Organic Smallholding water went through a Septic Tank BEFORE it went into the reed beds. You cannot just throw anything into reeds and expect it to clean & purify it!

I wondered how the reeds would deal with toilet paper

 

[RandallC]

A motorhome hire company has been fined after a user disposed of grey water to a public highway drain.....
DEFRA comment included.


https://vanlifematters.co.uk/dispose-of-greywater

Sorry didn't see the link as far too many cookies wanted by supposed legitimate interests.

 

[L' Hobo]

I wondered how the reeds would deal with toilet paper

They don't, that's the reason for the first chamber (if I remember correctly) of the Septic Tank. (Not a Cesspit)

 

[DBK]

I used a CMC site just last week and when I inquired if I could use a different Motorhome Service point on a "closed" section of camp they said yes and agreed it was better for all as my RV would otherwise block the road (black tanks on board). His words.... "Yes mate, there's a drop through grill on the floor, get rid of your waste there please" ..... I asked, "ALL my waste?"..... He replied YES!........... I then mentioned how surprised I was they allowed black waste and grey down the same drain and he turned pale..... Apparently never occured to him the 7.5 tonne Motorhome in front of him would have a black tank. There was a liftable manhole cover very close to the grey water grill...... I wonder how often the wrong stuff goes down their grill?

It depends what chemicals you use in your black tank. If you don't use anything nasty it should be fine going down the grey waste assuming you use your grey tank afterwards to "flush".

If you do use powerful chemicals the local sewage treatment plant won't enjoy the experience although it should survive if its a one off.

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[Miggs]

Don't give a damn, as long as farmers and water companies dump tons of crap into our seas and water courses I shall continue to dump a few drops of Fairy Liquid down the drain and I won't be losing any sleep over it.
PS.. Thread title is wrong......you said it was interesting!

 

[suavecarve]

I fail to see why the hire company received a fine.
They weren’t in charge of the vehicle at the time.

If this sets a precedent regarding hire companies I’m off to hire a very fast car and going to cane it around as I won’t be fined

Also given the amount of crap the water companies dump in water courses maybe defra might like to sort them out first

It may that the FPN is given to the hire company in order for them to name the offenders similar to if someone was speeding the owner (hire company) get the notification to name the driver

 

[funflair]

I used a CMC site just last week and when I inquired if I could use a different Motorhome Service point on a "closed" section of camp they said yes and agreed it was better for all as my RV would otherwise block the road (black tanks on board). His words.... "Yes mate, there's a drop through grill on the floor, get rid of your waste there please" ..... I asked, "ALL my waste?"..... He replied YES!........... I then mentioned how surprised I was they allowed black waste and grey down the same drain and he turned pale..... Apparently never occured to him the 7.5 tonne Motorhome in front of him would have a black tank. There was a liftable manhole cover very close to the grey water grill...... I wonder how often the wrong stuff goes down their grill?

You will most likely find that the two drains join and the only reason they don't want black down a drive over grid is the paper and wet wipes issues that they regularly get with cassettes.

 

[Garfields]

When you say authorised by the water company that means it discharges to foul sewer and goes to the local sewage treatment works

To discharge to a surface water drain you would need a permit from the Environment Agency which I am confident they wouldn’t issue




Below is copied from the linked article

I don’t believe it can be authentic or true

Under the Environmental Permitting Regulations 2016, any discharge of greywater to either a watercourse or to the ground must either be subject to a permit granted by the Environment Agency or fall within the definition of an exempt activity

Same in Scotland other than controlled by Scottish Water and SEPA.
Scottish Water fortunately was never privatised so avoided some of the mess that is happening south of the border even if they are far from squeaky clean.

Just as an aside new car car parks roads, housing estates etc have interceptors and or suds ponds to stop a lot of the gunk from the roads etc getting to rivers etc. These do work but they are not maintenance free and if left they will end up as manky ponds.

 

[Barclaybasher]

We are constantly reminded that we are a minority when it comes to providing any facilities for motorhomes - parking, dump, water etc.................. According to Google there are:

40 million vehicles in the UK - most doing more miles per year than the average MH

Just 225 thousand motorhomes

There are 216 thousand farms which probably pollute rivers more in a single hour than if every motorhome emptied their grey tanks into drains - which they don't !

A little perspective is needed

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[Silver-Fox]

I suppose this means that homeowners washing their cars in the street with soapy water draining into the drains will be issued a fixed penalty notice?

I use ph neutral snow foam and shampoo.

I’m guessing I’m ok to continue

 

[Silver-Fox]

I wondered how the reeds would deal with toilet paper

The reed elves come out at night to sort that problem

 

[Shrimp]

The CS we use a lot has always said Grey waste into the hedge, 15 years they’ve been going.
New neighbours-all of 4 months-have moaned about this.
Hedge belongs to CS and grey was going on CS side of hedge as ground rises towards hedge.
Apparently grey water can go on ground but not near edible crop or water course.
New neighbours seem now to be trying to force CS to close!

 

[Roby2008]

I’m sure this is frowned upon in Germany

It is and can/does result in fines, a fresh water wash off is all I can legally do on the driveway, the curtain twitchers will soon come over in person for a ´chat´ and see if there is any detergent around......., my poor German becomes non-existent at that point

 

[prenteye]

As a newbie motorhomer some years ago I drained our grey waste in a lay-by thinking it would disappear into the grass verge. It had been very dry and the whole tank of grey ran down the edge of the lay-by then downhill along the road edge. All in full view of countless vehicles.

Never did it again.

Will now drop grey directly (drain lever left open) on grass pitches if allowed but never from stored tank as that gets stinky and probably dangerous quite quickly.

In watercourses you can sometimes see the sewage fungus that looks like a lot of grey spit. That stuff can make you ill. I think it’s the same stuff in our grey tanks sometimes. Not nice.

We now use a little bit of Elsan Organic Green Toilet Fluid in the grey tank as it keeps the stink away. Same as we use in the toilet cassette as we are on septic tank.

Works for us.

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[Maudy]

The British Standard BS8525-1:2010 (Greywater Systems Code of Practice) advises that providing it's treated properly, greywater can be used for toilet flushing, garden use and washing machines. It shouldn't be used for bathing, dishwashing or anything requiring higher water quality, because of potential health risks. Yay water the plants ?

If you carry a bowl of bathwater outside to water the plants then you’re already recycling some of your greywater. This used water from baths, showers and sinks can be relatively clean – depending on how much soap, shampoo and shower gel you use – so collect and reuse where possible.
ok

All greywater has the potential to harbor dangerous bacteria and viruses. It is never potable. Micro-organisms present in untreated greywater can cause damage to foliage. Untreated greywater should not be used for lawn sprinklers, as this could spread dangerous, airborne bacteria.
Erm maybe not

it still contains substances and bacteria that aren't native to the environment. Chemicals and soaps can kill native plant, insect, and animal life.

In some jurisdictions, kitchen sink grey water is considered sewage. This is because most households dispose of large amounts of food waste in the kitchen sink. If the level of organic waste is too high, the water will require significant treatment to become usable grey water.

At the highest concentrations of organic matter, kitchen sink grey water is ideal for flushing toilets and carrying sewage away from the property. At low concentrations, small-scale filtration and treatment is enough for recycling grey water effectively.

Vehicle cleaning (including wheel washing
You must not allow run-off to enter surface water drains, surface waters or ground waters. This will cause pollution and you could be prosecuted. You should only wash vehicles in defined areas where the wash water and any rainfall run-off can be contained.

 

[Barclaybasher]

As a newbie motorhomer some years ago I drained our grey waste in a lay-by thinking it would disappear into the grass verge. It had been very dry and the whole tank of grey ran down the edge of the lay-by then downhill along the road edge. All in full view of countless vehicles.

Never did it again.

Will now drop grey directly (drain lever left open) on grass pitches if allowed but never from stored tank as that gets stinky and probably dangerous quite quickly.

In watercourses you can sometimes see the sewage fungus that looks like a lot of grey spit. That stuff can make you ill. I think it’s the same stuff in our grey tanks sometimes. Not nice.

We now use a little bit of Elsan Organic Green Toilet Fluid in the grey tank as it keeps the stink away. Same as we use in the toilet cassette as we are on septic tank.

Works for us.

Laybys stink anyway because there are not enough 'services' for truck drivers.....or us!

I think most 'outrage' online comes from motorhomers themselves - so few incidents but so much 'shouting' - no wonder we get a bad press - talk about shooting yourselves in the foot

 

[VXman]

Vehicle cleaning (including wheel washing
You must not allow run-off to enter surface water drains, surface waters or ground waters. This will cause pollution and you could be prosecuted. You should only wash vehicles in defined areas where the wash water and any rainfall run-off can be contained.

So I'm not allowed to wash my cars on my drive like I've done for the last 30 years!

 

[Maudy]

So I'm not allowed to wash my cars on my drive like I've done for the last 30 years!

Just an article I found , not my view
I say kill two birds with one stone

 

[Mr porky]

A motorhome hire company has been fined after a user disposed of grey water to a public highway drain.....
DEFRA comment included.


https://vanlifematters.co.uk/dispose-of-greywater

Very interesting, we don't put grey in rain drains but we have watered fields at the owners request.

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[funflair]

So I'm not allowed to wash my cars on my drive like I've done for the last 30 years!

No you are OK as that bit of the post was regs for Business's in N Ireland and Scotland

 

[nicholsong]

Vehicle cleaning (including wheel washing
You must not allow run-off to enter surface water drains, surface waters or ground waters. This will cause pollution and you could be prosecuted. You should only wash vehicles in defined areas where the wash water and any rainfall run-off can be contained.


By extension one should not leave a dirty car out in the rain where the rainfall run-off cannot be contained.

 

[Tombola]

When you say authorised by the water company that means it discharges to foul sewer and goes to the local sewage treatment works

To discharge to a surface water drain you would need a permit from the Environment Agency which I am confident they wouldn’t issue

Apologies, I used "water company" assuming it was them, I wasnt involved with the paperwork etc, , but the water goes out of the building, and down the same drains the roof water goes and links with the black metal 5 bar road grids.

they did have to asses where the water ran too though I remember being told that

 

[L' Hobo]

We are constantly reminded that we are a minority when it comes to providing any facilities for motorhomes - parking, dump, water etc.................. According to Google there are:

40 million vehicles in the UK - most doing more miles per year than the average MH

Just 225 thousand motorhomes

There are 216 thousand farms which probably pollute rivers more in a single hour than if every motorhome emptied their grey tanks into drains - which they don't !

A little perspective is needed

If anyone wants to help, instead of buying CHEAP vegetables, buy Hydroponically or Organically grown vegetables, both of these growers, either HAVE to, or WANT to, grow responsibly, usually BOTH!

 

[SpeedyDux]

As a newbie motorhomer some years ago I drained our grey waste in a lay-by thinking it would disappear into the grass verge. It had been very dry and the whole tank of grey ran down the edge of the lay-by then downhill along the road edge. All in full view of countless vehicles.

Never did it again.

Will now drop grey directly (drain lever left open) on grass pitches if allowed but never from stored tank as that gets stinky and probably dangerous quite quickly.

In watercourses you can sometimes see the sewage fungus that looks like a lot of grey spit. That stuff can make you ill. I think it’s the same stuff in our grey tanks sometimes. Not nice.

We now use a little bit of Elsan Organic Green Toilet Fluid in the grey tank as it keeps the stink away. Same as we use in the toilet cassette as we are on septic tank.

Works for us.

I sincerely hope I won't be the next occupant of the grass pitch you dump grey water on. Please don't do that. There is always a better place to dump grey water.

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