Interesting article about grey water disposal on "highway drains"....

[Jev88]

A motorhome hire company has been fined after a user disposed of grey water to a public highway drain.....
DEFRA comment included.


https://vanlifematters.co.uk/dispose-of-greywater

 

[Odd-no-more]

Interesting, many sites encourage emptying into bushes, which would be illegal if near a water course

 

[Boringfrog]

Are they not getting Grey and Black waste confused?

 

[Silver-Fox]

A motorhome hire company has been fined after a user disposed of grey water to a public highway drain.....
DEFRA comment included.


https://vanlifematters.co.uk/dispose-of-greywater

I fail to see why the hire company received a fine.
They weren’t in charge of the vehicle at the time.

If this sets a precedent regarding hire companies I’m off to hire a very fast car and going to cane it around as I won’t be fined

Also given the amount of crap the water companies dump in water courses maybe defra might like to sort them out first

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

The thread link also leads on to other interesting motorhome topics, free stopover waste and toilets in Fife for example, a motorhomer emptying his cassette in a river on Barra. And an owner of a motorhome sales Co. Jailed for selling vans for owners and keeping thier money.

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[Pausim]

Are they not getting Grey and Black waste confused?

I agree someone is confusing grey and black. I have had a quick look at the guidance to the regulations they quote and this is what I read.

A water discharge activity is, in summary, the:
-discharge or entry to certain waters of any poisonous, noxious or polluting matter, waste matter, trade effluent or sewage effluent.
-
-

As far as I am concerned this description doesn’t include grey water (just keep it free from waste matter). Neither is being encouraged to use grey water on our gardens consistent with this report. Where we are currently camped the farmer asked us put the grey water onto the adjacent field where his sheep would appreciate having the grass watered.

Probably just bad reporting by someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I suspect DavidG58 could offer an expert opinion?

 

[Odd-no-more]

I agree someone is confusing grey and black. I have had a quick look at the guidance to the regulations they quote and this is what I read.

A water discharge activity is, in summary, the:
-discharge or entry to certain waters of any poisonous, noxious or polluting matter, waste matter, trade effluent or sewage effluent.
-
-

As far as I am concerned this description doesn’t include grey water (just keep it free from waste matter). Neither is being encouraged to use grey water on our gardens consistent with this report. Where we are currently camped the farmer asked us put the grey water onto the adjacent field where his sheep would appreciate having the grass watered.

Probably just bad reporting by someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

Grey water has soap detergent etc. I see that as pollution, all be it in small quantities.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Various arguments on here about this!
The only thing that is allowed down a drain is rain water run off anything else is classed as contaminated waste.
I use to have the MOD maintenance contract in the South and a few times have been paid rather large sums to install a pumping station and main from a storage come maintenance shed to a foul manhole on RAF bases, some pipelines were hundreds of meters long just to take waste from a hand washing sink.

 

[DavidG58]

Good way to highlight the problem , which is a problem that many claim isn’t

Badly written though as DEFRA have no influence in Scotland only England

It also says grey water can’t be discharged onto grass which isn’t true, some of the best processes in a sewage treatment system involve running the nearly clean liquid through a feed bed or over grass in some cases as a finishing process

The fine was issued relating to an incident that was alleged to have happened in Scotland , I am not so familiar with their laws, but if the same as in England nearly all roadside gulleys are connected directly to the nearest ditch or pond and should not be used for grey water, you wouldn’t top your fish pond up with it or wash your car with it

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[mitzimad]

during the last drought we were told to use grey wste to water our plants?

 

[SpeedyDux]

Ignoring all the wild creatures' poo that goes into rainwater drains. And ponds, ditches etc. A far from sterile environment.

 

[Bustup15]

I suppose this means that homeowners washing their cars in the street with soapy water draining into the drains will be issued a fixed penalty notice?

 

[Gromett]

Badly written though as DEFRA have no influence in Scotland only England

You misread I think? DEFRA were asked about the situation in England. SEPA are the ones issuing the fine. The link to the article is in the linked article.

 

[WESTY66]

I suppose this means that homeowners washing their cars in the street with soapy water draining into the drains will be issued a fixed penalty notice?

I’m sure this is frowned upon in Germany

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[Garfields]

I suppose this means that homeowners washing their cars in the street with soapy water draining into the drains will be issued a fixed penalty notice?

Yes it is technically illegal
My understanding is it is enforced in Germany.
Washing a single vehicle is a drop in the ocean.
Pop-up car washes that appear in supermarket car parks etc are a different mater. There are some with all the correct permets and equipment and connections to the foul sewers to operate. It was a never ending task chasing others when it was part of my employment.

 

[hja]

Good way to highlight the problem , which is a problem that many claim isn’t

Badly written though as DEFRA have no influence in Scotland only England

It also says grey water can’t be discharged onto grass which isn’t true, some of the best processes in a sewage treatment system involve running the nearly clean liquid through a feed bed or over grass in some cases as a finishing process

The fine was issued relating to an incident that was alleged to have happened in Scotland , I am not so familiar with their laws, but if the same as in England nearly all roadside gulleys are connected directly to the nearest ditch or pond and should not be used for grey water, you wouldn’t top your fish pond up with it or wash your car with it

Where does it say can’t empty on to grass. I know it says must go into sewer etc but surely that is instead of the road drain.
Something in the current edition of Gardeners World Magazine about using shower and bath water on the garden. Answer was Yes provided not too much soap type stuff in it and perhaps stay away from edibles and seedlings. Common sense to me.

 

[L' Hobo]

I fail to see why the hire company received a fine.
They weren’t in charge of the vehicle at the time.

If this sets a precedent regarding hire companies I’m off to hire a very fast car and going to cane it around as I won’t be fined

Also given the amount of crap the water companies dump in water courses maybe defra might like to sort them out first

I was manager for Hertz Truck Rental many years ago in London and if we couldn't, or were not willing to, give the Police the name of the driver, at the time of any offence, we were deemed responsible.

 

[L' Hobo]

Good way to highlight the problem , which is a problem that many claim isn’t

Badly written though as DEFRA have no influence in Scotland only England

It also says grey water can’t be discharged onto grass which isn’t true, some of the best processes in a sewage treatment system involve running the nearly clean liquid through a feed bed or over grass in some cases as a finishing process

The fine was issued relating to an incident that was alleged to have happened in Scotland , I am not so familiar with their laws, but if the same as in England nearly all roadside gulleys are connected directly to the nearest ditch or pond and should not be used for grey water, you wouldn’t top your fish pond up with it or wash your car with it

I'm curious, if DEFRA has no authority in Scotland, who has?
Edit. Have read a few more posts and my question has been answered.

 

[daveclare]

It's big corporate thick headed joke. Road debris includes engine oil, hydraulic oils, rubber, synthetics, carcinogens, cigarette stubs, brake dust, animal turds, clutch plate dust etc, etc, etc. Which is all washed down the road drains.

Compare that to general grey water.

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[Pausim]

If a bit of diluted soap and detergent was a problem the farmer would not be asking us to water his land with it.

 

[Langtoftlad]

If a bit of diluted soap and detergent was a problem the farmer would not be asking us to water his land with it.

Think you're missing the point...
Grey water onto ground is an excellent filter... Grey water into drain which goes directly into water course without filtration, not good.

 

[DBK]

I've never thought you could tip grey water into a drain as it is likely to go very quickly straight into a river, lake or the sea. Grey water is likely to contain detergent, oils, fats, bits of food etc.

Tipping into bushes is very different, assuming you aren't directly above a stream.

 

[DerryW]

So, can my grey waste be emptied onto the farmers hedge as requested by the landowner or not.

 

[Gromett]

Grey water can quickly contaminate slow moving dykes, water courses etc. You know how bad a grey tank can smell. Imagine the damage that would do to aquatic life.

Seriously, they are right on this it is bad. I have to work right now but will tell a story later when I get time.

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[daveclare]

Let me be clear here. I'm not advocating we tip all of our grey water down road drains. I'm highlighting that there are double standards when it comes to tackling what goes down highway drains. And simply fining a motorhome hire company is not really tackling the problem.

There is a thing called vicarious liability, which I think is how they've fined the motorhome hire company. I'm certain a good lawyer could rightly get the fine revoked. It's probably because they didn't put a massive sign in the hire van stating not to put grey water down a road drain.

It does need a definitive answer from the department of the environment to enlighten and direct us all. After all there are companies selling and installing ' natural' water cleaning solutions, such as reed beds. As highlighted in the house building programmes in C4.

 

[CazPaul]

Let me be clear here. I'm not advocating we tip all of our grey water down road drains. I'm highlighting that there are double standards when it comes to tackling what goes down highway drains. And simply fining a motorhome hire company is not really tackling the problem.

There is a thing called vicarious liability, which I think is how they've fined the motorhome hire company. I'm certain a good lawyer could rightly get the fine revoked. It's probably because they didn't put a massive sign in the hire van stating not to put grey water down a road drain.

It does need a definitive answer from the department of the environment to enlighten and direct us all. After all there are companies selling and installing ' natural' water cleaning solutions, such as reed beds. As highlighted in the house building programmes in C4.

Yes I agree with that bit it depends what the hire company have in place in their terms and conditions and health and safety documents.
If they have a good robust policy and this is highlighted to everyone hiring a Motorhome then they can’t be fined surely.

 

[Barclaybasher]

I am not saying that it's OK to put grey waste down a drain but compared to what else ends up in rivers.....?
Pesticides
Fertiliser
Animal waste
That's just from farms
Water companies themselves discharging
Industrial 'accidents'
As has been said all the pollutants of roads...
Bit OTT fining a motorhome hirer....

 

[Tombola]

Meanwhile oils and all sorts of other contaminates gets washed down there fro wagons and cars on the road...

Also my business uses chemicals to clean inks from screens of a printing process..we have a meter attached showing how many thousands litres a week go down and how much plastisol residue..all passed as ok by the water companies to go via the same drains as rainwater runoff from the roof and road.

 

[hja]

To be honest I’m not too worried about the hire firm getting fined IF they didn’t brief the driver sufficiently. There have been posts on this forum at different times wondering how much instruction those hiring motorhomes actually get. So if this acts as a wake up call, all to the good.
As for grey water down road drains, well I wouldn’t. Onto grass, into hedges, onto the gravel at my house yes I would. In those circumstances the water gets filtered as it passes through the ground.
I agree lots of other nasties get into water courses. Should there be more enforcement, yes there should.
We should also put this in the context of a reported and observed incident, as I understand. There was a disposal facility near by. We are not looked on too favourably by lots of people. We need to be ultra responsible and when facilities have been provided, use them.

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