Hydrogen powered commercial vehicles.

[Dark_Comet]

Wasnt it a good job some folk were not around when diesel engines and AC electricity first appeared. They be still going about on horses holding an oil lamp. They laughed at Tesla and his AC electricity. Nobody laughing now. The smelly diesel knocking diesel engine now moves the world. Hydrogen under all our noses in great abundance and you still have the doubters.

 

[Coolcats]

Interesting programme on R4 the other morning talking more of using H as energy storage rather than powering vehicles, it's apparently a more efficient use as batteries not great for storing excess wind and solar.

There is a fair bit of interest in this I did post a peace on this before and agree with you that this is a viable option

Improvements to Integrate High Pressure Alkaline Electrolysers for Electricity/H2 production from Renewable Energies to Balance the Grid​

 

[Coolcats]

Not quite the same thing. Solar panels convert incoming energy from the sun into electric. That is external energy being introduced into your vehicle.
HHO takes existing energy in the battery to convert water to H2 and O2 and feed this into the engine. The engine then has to work harder to power the alternator to replace the charge to the battery.

I get all the best Toys Gromett, this one is about 5 years old I got it out of the box earlier this month as I suspected Hydrogen would rear its head again. Your explaining what I already understand.......the thing is I can as you see in the picture generate Hydrogen from the sun..can you

 

[Coolcats]

I get all the best Toys Gromett, this one is about 5 years old I got it out of the box earlier this month as I suspected Hydrogen would rear its head again. Your explaining what I already understand.......the thing is I can as you see in the picture generate Hydrogen from the sun..can you

I see you laugh but on the more serious side you may not have noticed, ford use these guys for their Hydrogen powered trucks

This is a Horizon Fuel Cell Able to produce 500hp (370kW) with power density exceeding 5kW/L and 5kW/kg, the new fuel cells from Horizon comfortably provide the power needed to displace the majority of large diesel engines.All of this can be achieved by using Wind and Sun to produce Hydrogen........and Gromett I suspect will say and I say its a viable alternative

 

[Dark_Comet]

Problem with the wet type hho generator is their not very safe and dont produce sufficient hydrogen in adequate quantities. You need a dry cell (suitable size) and use only distlled water with potasium hydroxide as the catalyst. If you power the generator off the alternator via a relay and switch you will get upto 25 amps easily. Lot of folk using the early wet systems did not get the required results and shot hydrogen down as a non starter

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[HectorsHoose]

It may be of interest to those who might be worrying about the future for motorhomes post 2030 when Diesel and Petrol vehicles will no longer be built in the UK.
In The Telegraph 31st March, there was an article about the car- making giant Stellantis making a production Hydrogen fuel cell vehicle on sale in the UK.
They are talking about real vehicles, not prototypes. France has 25 hydrogen filling stations, Germany 90 and the UK 12.
The new mid-sized fuel cell van, which will be badged as a Peugeot Expert, Citreon Dispatch and Opel Vivaro, will only be available as a left-hand drive vehicle this year, but by 2022 will also come to the UK as a right-hand drive Vauxhall Vivaro.
Hopefully this was not an early April Fools Day prank .

Germany is investing heavily in hydrogen infrastructure & im inclined to think they know what they’re talking about. Hydrogen is much more useful for everything from heavy vehicles to domestic gas boilers…something else that’s going to be banned soon to

 

[Dark_Comet]

Batteries will always have a place as will hydrogen as will hybrids. It all depends on the application. To get back to motorhomes surely a £200 HHO generator kit has to be a very viable option. They are being fitted now to HGV widely, in fact you can run an ICE entirely on hydrogen. For an older diesel engine or especially for a motorhome that needs more power its a godsend. Sell or change your vehicle easily remove and swap. Going on a ferry, simply switch off

 

[Captain Birdseye]

It may be of interest to those who might be worrying about the future for motorhomes post 2030 when Diesel and Petrol vehicles will no longer be built in the UK.
In The Telegraph 31st March, there was an article about the car- making giant Stellantis making a production Hydrogen fuel cell vehicle on sale in the UK.
They are talking about real vehicles, not prototypes. France has 25 hydrogen filling stations, Germany 90 and the UK 12.
The new mid-sized fuel cell van, which will be badged as a Peugeot Expert, Citreon Dispatch and Opel Vivaro, will only be available as a left-hand drive vehicle this year, but by 2022 will also come to the UK as a right-hand drive Vauxhall Vivaro.
Hopefully this was not an early April Fools Day prank .

California has hydrogen fuel cell cars for many years now.

 

[Dark_Comet]

Hydrogen comprises of protons and electrons. The electrons we need to produce electricity. The hydrogen fuel cell has a membrance that only allows protons through and the electrons have to go through a circuit in order to get to the other side where they recombine with the protons and oxygen to produce water from the exhaust. The vehicle will also have a battery which is charged from the back emf from the motor. This energy together with super capacitors is used during acceleration or when extra power is required to the motor. Great thing about hydrogen powered hgvs is the huge mileage range typically 1000 miles, and they can be refuelled in minutes not hours.

 

[Gromett]

I saw that vid the other day, still don't understand it but don't disbelieve it.

He has released a follow up. Initially I was convinced by the scientists that it didn't work. It restored my faith in my logical abilities and understanding of things. But I was disappointed that it didn't actually work as it shook things up for me. I like being surprised like that.

Then as the video went on and he continued to counter the scientists, I wavered. then the final demonstration of the model and the fact the scientist changed his mind and paid up was brilliant.

I also understand it much better now....

Brilliant.

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[Gromett]

And the model that really proves it.

 

[NoName]

It may be of interest to those who might be worrying about the future for motorhomes post 2030 when Diesel and Petrol vehicles will no longer be built in the UK.
In The Telegraph 31st March, there was an article about the car- making giant Stellantis making a production Hydrogen fuel cell vehicle on sale in the UK.
They are talking about real vehicles, not prototypes. France has 25 hydrogen filling stations, Germany 90 and the UK 12.
The new mid-sized fuel cell van, which will be badged as a Peugeot Expert, Citreon Dispatch and Opel Vivaro, will only be available as a left-hand drive vehicle this year, but by 2022 will also come to the UK as a right-hand drive Vauxhall Vivaro.
Hopefully this was not an early April Fools Day prank .

In today’s news Centrica have announced plans to invest £1.6 billion repurposing an offshore methane facility to store hydrogen. Indicating that hydrogen will become a bigger and important part of the UK’s energy plans. The existing site is off the Yorkshire coast and could mean 3 to 4,000 jobs.

 

[Coolcats]

In today’s news Centrica have announced plans to invest £1.6 billion repurposing an offshore methane facility to store hydrogen. Indicating that hydrogen will become a bigger and important part of the UK’s energy plans. The existing site is off the Yorkshire coast and could mean 3 to 4,000 jobs.

I hear that gas supply companies are currently mixing hydrogen with natural gas so overtime it is likely they will supply just Hydrogen. This meets the logic of why boiler manufacturers are low making boilers that can use both fuel types.

 

[TenBobDave]

Apologies if this has been posted before but well worth a look.....

 

[Dark_Comet]

You can buy a Hydrogem HHO dry generator kit for about £200 and add hydrogen to the combustion. Kit installs in about an hour or more and can be turned on n off by a switch. Benefits are better fuel economy, far cleaner engine by burning all the unburnt carbon in the cylinder head and exhaust, smoother engine, better performance. Enjoy the benefit right now. HHO is being used worldwide right now on all types of engines.

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[Captain Birdseye]

Apologies if this has been posted before but well worth a look.....

Yep. I posted it.
It is the future to replace diesel vehicles, although in California they have had hydrogen powered cars for around ten years.

 

[busby]

You have experience of a hybrid and you base your criticisms of full BEV on that?

ALL hybrids are a pile of crap in comparison to a true BEV when it comes to battery range. They are a compromise tech that make no one happy.

If you are comparing steam engines to Tesla's I give up.

How about you compare your Brothers terrible PHEV with a Tesla on range? How about the new Tesla Plaid with 500 miles of range?

Oh, and just to throw a bit of humour in here. Did you know it takes longer to get a steam engine up to temperature than it does to charge a Tesla. Oh and you have to wait for the coal man to deliver the coal

When it comes to build quality I would take a Tesla over a Land Rover any day of the week

Thought Stanley Steamers back in the 30s could be up and running in 5 mins.BUSBY.

 

[olley]

Thought Stanley Steamers back in the 30s could be up and running in 5 mins.BUSBY.

Oil or gas fired instant steam boilers can be up and running minutes.

 

[Gromett]

Now this is a brilliant use for hydrogen. Using it and waste CO2 to create methanol and use that to power ships.

Maersk really is looking to the post Diesel future. Well done.

Maersk goes green with methanol-powered container ships

Order for eight zero-carbon container ships by world's largest container line highlights demand for environmentally friendly sea freight

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[gpat]

You can buy a Hydrogem HHO dry generator kit for about £200 and add hydrogen to the combustion. Kit installs in about an hour or more and can be turned on n off by a switch. Benefits are better fuel economy, far cleaner engine by burning all the unburnt carbon in the cylinder head and exhaust, smoother engine, better performance. Enjoy the benefit right now. HHO is being used worldwide right now on all types of engines.

IMO of course. Its still a con and is nothing to do with this thread

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[Dark_Comet]

I started a discussion on Hydrogen generators for motorhomes so time ago, a simple kit that is easily fitted, both here and in other forums. I was told it was a scam, couldnt work, if it was any use why are they not being fitted already etc etc. Now hydrogen fuelled vehicles are becoming part of everyday life.

 

[Captain Birdseye]

I started a discussion on Hydrogen generators for motorhomes so time ago, a simple kit that is easily fitted, both here and in other forums. I was told it was a scam, couldnt work, if it was any use why are they not being fitted already etc etc. Now hydrogen fuelled vehicles are becoming part of everyday life.

They have had hydrogen powered cars in California for around 10 years I'm told.
You should look at the feature from JCB on the YouTube channel "Harry's Garage"
JCB have developed hydrogen powered plant and are building the product now!

 

[gpat]

I started a discussion on Hydrogen generators for motorhomes so time ago, a simple kit that is easily fitted, both here and in other forums. I was told it was a scam, couldnt work, if it was any use why are they not being fitted already etc etc. Now hydrogen fuelled vehicles are becoming part of everyday life.

That's because your hydrogen generator was, in the view of many on here, a scam and the science made no sense. No one said there was no future in hydrogen power as far as I can remember

 

[gpat]

Now this is a brilliant use for hydrogen. Using it and waste CO2 to create methanol and use that to power ships.

Maersk really is looking to the post Diesel future. Well done.

Maersk goes green with methanol-powered container ships

Order for eight zero-carbon container ships by world's largest container line highlights demand for environmentally friendly sea freight

www.telegraph.co.uk

Not so sure. Combustion of methanol create CO2 so what does this achieve for global warming

 

[Gromett]

Not so sure. Combustion of methanol create CO2 so what does this achieve for global warming

If the methanol is produced from bio processes then the CO2 came from the atmosphere in the first place. a virtuous cycle.

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[gpat]

If the methanol is produced from bio processes then the CO2 came from the atmosphere in the first place. a virtuous cycle.

Mmm! I understand what you are saying. However with every process being less than 100% efficient then do you think that you can really balance the CO2 equation?

 

[SpeedyDux]

If the methanol is produced from bio processes then the CO2 came from the atmosphere in the first place. a virtuous cycle.

Extracting CO2 from the atmosphere at current 420ppm concentrations? In the volume required to propel massive ships?

 

[Gromett]

Mmm! I understand what you are saying. However with every process being less than 100% efficient then do you think that you can really balance the CO2 equation?

It may be less than 100% efficient energy wise, but CO2 wise it should be balanced or there abouts. That however is not the question that should be asked.
The question I would ask is this. Are CO2 emissions significantly lower and what is the economic costs. Also is it cleaner, bunker fuel is nasty stuff and extremely dirty.

I don't think ethanol is the answer for land based transport because it would require vast swathes of agriculture turned over to growing crops for ethanol where an alternative already exists (battery and hydrogen).
However for shipping, I think ethanol is a pretty good answer if not the best answer.

 

[Jamesh]

Germany is investing heavily in hydrogen infrastructure & im inclined to think they know what they’re talking about. Hydrogen is much more useful for everything from heavy vehicles to domestic gas boilers…something else that’s going to be banned soon to

With China on batteries, Germany on hydrogen what are we developing? Rubber bands and springs?!!!

 

[gpat]

It may be less than 100% efficient energy wise, but CO2 wise it should be balanced or there abouts. That however is not the question that should be asked.
The question I would ask is this. Are CO2 emissions significantly lower and what is the economic costs. Also is it cleaner, bunker fuel is nasty stuff and extremely dirty.

I don't think ethanol is the answer for land based transport because it would require vast swathes of agriculture turned over to growing crops for ethanol where an alternative already exists (battery and hydrogen).
However for shipping, I think ethanol is a pretty good answer if not the best answer.

Yes anything that reduces CO2 is to be encouraged I guess. I think you have to be concerned about where they get their Hydrogen form a very inefficient process. But hey you have got to try things to learn from them

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