Hydrogen powered commercial vehicles.

[Tombola]

For the Nay sayers

Go-Ahead forges ahead with plans to launch hydrogen buses in the UK this summer - edie

Public transport operator Go-Ahead Group has completed 15-year hydrogen supply deal, as it strives for a fossil-fuel-free fleet of buses in the UK by 2035.

www.edie.net

Itsfine saying that, but businesses will go where either
A there is profit
or
B where the govnt gives the most grants to help enable the most profits. the link I posted, Id guarantee the grant has been pulled or at least lowered.
If the grants were bigger and better for battery power vehicles they would go that route if it made the bottom line better for them , course they would, its easier cleaner and cheaper. Its just isnt ready yet.
In 10-15 years time them buses will be scrapped and replaced with Rivian offerings. Sad but true at the moment Hydrogen is no cheaper.

 

[Coolcats]

Itsfine saying that, but businesses will go where either
A there is profit
or
B where the govnt gives the most grants to help enable the most profits. the link I posted, Id guarantee the grant has been pulled or at least lowered.
If the grants were bigger and better for battery power vehicles they would go that route if it made the bottom line better for them , course they would, its easier cleaner and cheaper. Its just isnt ready yet.
In 10-15 years time them buses will be scrapped and replaced with Rivian offerings. Sad but true at the moment Hydrogen is no cheaper.

Its not always about cheapness Diesel Vs Petrol, many people buy or have purchased a Diesel but do not get the perceived benefits as they only travel 6 miles a day! or if your a punter looking for a new car you may purchase a traditional ICE vehicle rather than an EV as many people still do.

I would suggest that currently a Hydrogen Van would suit most MoHo users better due to range and if the pumps were available a quick pit stop as people do now there would be a market for such a vehicle.

 

[Tombola]

Its not always about cheapness Diesel Vs Petrol, many people buy or have purchased a Diesel but do not get the perceived benefits as they only travel 6 miles a day! or if your a punter looking for a new car you may purchase a traditional ICE vehicle rather than an EV as many people still do.

I would suggest that currently a Hydrogen Van would suit most MoHo users better due to range and if the pumps were available a quick pit stop as people do now there would be a market for such a vehicle.

I was referring to what we both posted about, business,(bus companies) not personal use vehicles.
If they gave big grants and business subsidies out for hover crafts riding down the streets and bus comapnies made more money that way, then you would have hover crafts taking you to town for your shopping not buses.
It is that simple.

 

[Gromett]

For the Nay sayers

Go-Ahead forges ahead with plans to launch hydrogen buses in the UK this summer - edie

Public transport operator Go-Ahead Group has completed 15-year hydrogen supply deal, as it strives for a fossil-fuel-free fleet of buses in the UK by 2035.

www.edie.net

Fuelled by hydrogen made by steam reformation of natural gas. Whoohooo, how green are they.

Until they are buying either 100% green hydrogen, or build their own electrolysers then they are still running on fossil fuels.
The second they start doing one or the other they will find that their "clean" hydrogen buses are too expensive to run and batteries would have been better.

My nay saying objections remain intact.

 

[Gromett]

I was referring to what we both posted about, business,(bus companies) not personal use vehicles.

Welcome to debating with Coolcats he changes the subject to avoid responding to your specific points. Have fun

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[Coolcats]

I was referring to what we both posted about, business,(bus companies) not personal use vehicles.
If they gave big grants and business subsidies out for hover crafts riding down the streets and bus comapnies made more money that way, then you would have hover crafts taking you to town for your shopping not buses.
It is that simple.

Ive always wanted a Hovercraft, my Grandfathers friend was involved in the building of the Original one that went to the isle of white. I think we should take the suggestion about Grants and see if we can get one.

On a serious note I agree with you

 

[Coolcats]

Welcome to debating with Coolcats he changes the subject to avoid responding to your specific points. Have fun

The world is not a simple yes, no or linea which is often presented with your debating

 

[Coolcats]

My nay saying objections remain intact.

At some time in the future my guess you will be buying me a beer for being right

 

[jongood]

At some time in the future my guess you will be buying me a beer for being right

I think it more likely that either you or me prove to be right than Gromett gets the beers in

 

[jp11]

Nobody, but nobody, sees any further than their nose. Batteries are not the answer. One or two generations down the line (if Greta has a family) the eco warriors will be blaming our generation for flooding the world with lithium batteries (or whatever element becomes more suitable). In case you hadn't noticed, lithium has to be mined. Check it out. See what problems it causes. See the ecological issues. See the social issues and the people toiling in the mud with their bare hands to get it out. Many systems are used to mine it, one of them requires hideous amounts of water, so much that it's lowering the water tables and destroying agricultural livelihoods. You don't believe me? Check it out. You thought the eighteenth and nineteenth century coal industry was bad?

And then the used cells have to be disposed of. Generally, they're not suitable for traction power after a surprisingly short timescale. I don't think they are even being recycled at the moment, unlike lead/acid batteries - lithium isn't valuable enough.
You need to open your eyes and look further than your nose. Even the mains electricity infrastructure isn't up to the electrical current requirements for charging, never mind the provision of charging points.

It's time to stop running down hydrogen (the most abundant element on the planet). The technology for extracting it is improving. With research, it will continue. But believe me, the storage of vehicle energy in batteries is NOT the future. The future is hydrogen.

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[Tombola]

Nobody, but nobody, sees any further than their nose.

What does that even mean ?

In case you hadn't noticed, lithium has to be mined. Check it out. See what problems it causes. See the ecological issues. See the social issues and the people toiling in the mud with their bare hands to get it out

oh dear. that short sighted old chesnut. You keep saying check it out. ?
Check this out, most of the worlds lithium is sat at home, in the drawer, old mobile phone batteries, laptops, brown goods, all just waiting to be recycled. Just like lead acid batteries lithium can be recycled again and again, this is going to be big business. I dont suppose you are up in arms about the kids playing with acid all day in 2nd/3rd world countries making said batteries for years ?? no course you havet cos its not big news down the pub.

The mining of lithium of course is going to be a problem in some countries and by some dodgy characters just as the same in any industry, manufacturing, textiles, OLD LEAD ACID BATTERIES......child labour. these things will be overcomes as best as can be when it can be.

Tell me, why should we as you say "believe you" when you say things like "hydrogen (the most abundant element on the planet)"
Maybe if you get Elon to send a spaceship up nd bring a load of H back then you may get somewhere with that one.
Maybe all the worlds countries and large manufacturers have got it wrong, give em a ring and tell them to pop out and get some "H" instead

Next time someone down the pub tells you its raining outside, have a quick look and check for yourself

talk about blind leading the blind.

 

[Coolcats]

What does that even mean ?

oh dear. that short sighted old chesnut. You keep saying check it out. ?
Check this out, most of the worlds lithium is sat at home, in the drawer, old mobile phone batteries, laptops, brown goods, all just waiting to be recycled. Just like lead acid batteries lithium can be recycled again and again, thsi is going to be big business.
The mining of course is going to be a problem in some countries and by some dodgy characters just as the same in any industry, manufacturing, textiles, child labour. these things will be overcomes as best as can be when it can be.

Tell me, why should we as you say "believe you" when you say things like "hydrogen (the most abundant element on the planet)"
Next time someone downt he pub tells you its raining outside, have a qucik look and check for yourself

talk about blind leading the blind

Pity the poor miners,

‘Like slave and master’: DRC miners toil for 30p an hour to fuel electric cars

Congolese workers describe a system of abuse, precarious employment and paltry wages – all to power the green vehicle revolution

www.theguardian.com

Earth's Surprising Hydrogen Reserves​

Extraordinary discovery of Large-Scale
Hydrogen Underground deposit

"Therefore, we are facing a discovery of planetary magnitude, the hydrogen exists in the natural state, you can extract it easily, and is available at least as much as oil and gas. There is potentially limitless sources of hydrogen just below our feet."

 

[Gromett]

Pity the poor miners,

‘Like slave and master’: DRC miners toil for 30p an hour to fuel electric cars

Congolese workers describe a system of abuse, precarious employment and paltry wages – all to power the green vehicle revolution

www.theguardian.com

Earth's Surprising Hydrogen Reserves​

Extraordinary discovery of Large-Scale
Hydrogen Underground deposit

"Therefore, we are facing a discovery of planetary magnitude, the hydrogen exists in the natural state, you can extract it easily, and is available at least as much as oil and gas. There is potentially limitless sources of hydrogen just below our feet."

Not all lithium batteries require Cobalt, and not all cobalt is mined at these slave camps using child labour.

Do you really believe there is free hydrogen in vast quantities just 100 feet below our feet? I have a bridge to sell you if so. There are some areas where hydrogen is produced by natural reactions and it is possible for some of this to get trapped, but not in the quantities suggested by your article. So far it is only anecdotal and no concrete evidence has been found to confirm these "vast" deposits.

 

[tonyidle]

Ive always wanted a Hovercraft, my Grandfathers friend was involved in the building of the Original one that went to the isle of white. I think we should take the suggestion about Grants and see if we can get one.

On a serious note I agree with you

I've got one in the garage at Mothers at the moment.

 

[Tombola]

Pity the poor miners,

‘Like slave and master’: DRC miners toil for 30p an hour to fuel electric cars

Congolese workers describe a system of abuse, precarious employment and paltry wages – all to power the green vehicle revolution

www.theguardian.com

Earth's Surprising Hydrogen Reserves​

Extraordinary discovery of Large-Scale
Hydrogen Underground deposit

"Therefore, we are facing a discovery of planetary magnitude, the hydrogen exists in the natural state, you can extract it easily, and is available at least as much as oil and gas. There is potentially limitless sources of hydrogen just below our feet."

hey...do you wanna buy some magic beans

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[Tombola]

Ive always wanted a Hovercraft, my Grandfathers friend was involved in the building of the Original one that went to the isle of white. I think we should take the suggestion about Grants and see if we can get one.

On a serious note I agree with you

now thats cool....well done him

 

[jp11]

What does that even mean ?

oh dear. that short sighted old chesnut. You keep saying check it out. ?
Check this out, most of the worlds lithium is sat at home, in the drawer, old mobile phone batteries, laptops, brown goods, all just waiting to be recycled. Just like lead acid batteries lithium can be recycled again and again, this is going to be big business. I dont suppose you are up in arms about the kids playing with acid all day in 2nd/3rd world countries making said batteries for years ?? no course you havet cos its not big news down the pub.

The mining of lithium of course is going to be a problem in some countries and by some dodgy characters just as the same in any industry, manufacturing, textiles, OLD LEAD ACID BATTERIES......child labour. these things will be overcomes as best as can be when it can be.

Tell me, why should we as you say "believe you" when you say things like "hydrogen (the most abundant element on the planet)"
Maybe if you get Elon to send a spaceship up nd bring a load of H back then you may get somewhere with that one.
Maybe all the worlds countries and large manufacturers have got it wrong, give em a ring and tell them to pop out and get some "H" instead

Next time someone down the pub tells you its raining outside, have a quick look and check for yourself

talk about blind leading the blind.

I didn't mean to rattle your cage, but I obviously did. But you're doing a lot of laughing, obviously at me, so I'll engage with you.
1. What does it mean? People can't, or won't, look further than the current technology options, usually because it's easier to go with the flow.
2. I didn't mean "Check it out" in a disparaging way. Of course, if you know everything, you don't need to check it out. But if you weren't aware of something, it's quite easy these days to "check it out". However most people aren't aware of the implications of many things, especially when they're brainwashed by multi-nationals, governments, and social media. They've lost the need to "check it out", they just listen to what they want to hear.
3. I wasn't aware that half the world's lithium was sat at home. I thank you for the information. And I WILL check it out. But if the proportion is currently half, then the onslaught of vehicle traction batteries is is about to change it massively.
4. We are agreed about the dodgy characters and child labour, etc. but I don't think these things are easily overcome.
5. Lead/acid batteries. I only referred to them, and their recycling, as a comparison with lithium. I'm no lover of them. The main issue is that unscrupulous recyclers don't recycle them in a safe and ecological way, as per #4 above. Recycling lithium batteries is not without its risks either. Yes, it can be recycled many times over. But I believe none of it can be processed to a pure enough level to be reused in batteries.
6. I didn't ask you to believe me about the abundance of Hydrogen. I didn't even ask you to check it out. Most people know. But for those who can see past lithium batteries, it's got to be worth the effort to find a workable way to get at it. And we don't need to ask Elon to search for it in space - there's plenty of it down here. All he wants to do is make batteries, and even more money exploiting their use.
7. I rarely frequent the pub these days, unfortunately. But at 71 I can still see OK, and I won't be leading anyone down the blind route of lithium battery-powered vehicles!

 

[Coolcats]

I've got one in the garage at Mothers at the moment.

Some people just have too many toys how cool is that

 

[Tombola]

I didn't mean to rattle your cage, but I obviously did

I didnt read past that bit,
As obvs you dont see facts V fiction. Ill leave it here.
Hydrogen the most abundent source in earth , I wont laugh as it upset you....
oh shit..cant resist

check it out.

oh yeah do this more often

 

[Coolcats]

Not all lithium batteries require Cobalt, and not all cobalt is mined at these slave camps using child labour.

Do you really believe there is free hydrogen in vast quantities just 100 feet below our feet? I have a bridge to sell you if so. There are some areas where hydrogen is produced by natural reactions and it is possible for some of this to get trapped, but not in the quantities suggested by your article. So far it is only anecdotal and no concrete evidence has been found to confirm these "vast" deposits.

Broken Link Removed

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[jp11]

I didnt read past that bit,
As obvs you dont see facts V fiction. Ill leave it here.
Hydrogen the most abundent source in earth , I wont laugh as it upset you....
oh shit..cant resist



oh yeah do this more often

When you've finished laughing (I guess you're in a frenzy of laughter and can't read), I said it was the most abundant element on earth. It's estimated to account for up to 90% of matter in the Universe. But that's not important, because as a free gas it's rare. And the difficulty is extracting it. I'm not concerned about your reluctance to use your intelligence, but I'm sure many Funsters are concerned about future motoring options to travel in a sustainable manner. And I'll leave it there.

 

[tonyidle]

Some people just have too many toys how cool is that

Unfortunately (or maybe not) it's stored for a friend who races them. It's this one:

Multi Championship Winning Formula 1 Racing Hovercraft for sale from United Kingdom

Race ready Carbon Fibre Predator F1 Hovercraft, tuned weslake lift engine (25HP) and Rotax 809 triple thrust engine (160 HP) National Championship winner in 2012-2016 (year off in 2017 to do F50 - see other listing), 2018 European F1 championship winner and 2nd in 2018 World championships...

boats-from.co.uk

 

[Tombola]

I guess you're in a frenzy of laughter

only thanks to your posts,

6. I didn't ask you to believe me about the abundance of Hydrogen

really LOL

But believe me

I didn't even ask you to check it out.

really lol

Check it out. See what problems it causes

Check it out. You thought the eighteenth

and finally the best one

(the most abundant element on the planet)

looking at your post.......I think one is rattling ones own cage somewhat, Me Can't read...Ill have you know I went to one of the best Borstals inthe country and my literacy is as near to perfect as you can get, My dyslexia can be a slight hinderance but Im hping that "preying" to "Dog"each morning will fix that, Which school did you went too

I could go on but cheers for that quick cheer up time , have a good day down the pub listening to Jimmy and Johnny flogging "H"

 

[Tombola]

 

[Coolcats]

Unfortunately (or maybe not) it's stored for a friend who races them. It's this one:

Multi Championship Winning Formula 1 Racing Hovercraft for sale from United Kingdom

Race ready Carbon Fibre Predator F1 Hovercraft, tuned weslake lift engine (25HP) and Rotax 809 triple thrust engine (160 HP) National Championship winner in 2012-2016 (year off in 2017 to do F50 - see other listing), 2018 European F1 championship winner and 2nd in 2018 World championships...

boats-from.co.uk

Thank you for sharing that, they are amazing machines. My mother had never travelled out of the country and have to say I was delighted to have taken her to Europe on a Hoverspeed craft I used them as often as I could as I never got tired of just how amazing they were. Somehow we seem to have gone backwards with travel, Even the Hydrofoil ferry from Harwich no longer operates

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[TDub49]

And another potential step forward in the journey to make sure there are alternatives to Elon Musk's view of transport

New catalysts steer hydrogen fuel cells into mainstream

Cornell chemists have discovered a class of nonprecious metal derivatives that can catalyze fuel cell reactions about as well as platinum, at a fraction of the cost.

phys.org

 

[Coolcats]

And another potential step forward in the journey to make sure there are alternatives to Elon Musk's view of transport

New catalysts steer hydrogen fuel cells into mainstream

Cornell chemists have discovered a class of nonprecious metal derivatives that can catalyze fuel cell reactions about as well as platinum, at a fraction of the cost.

phys.org

Looks very promising and my guess is we do need an alternative to just batteries. Thanks for posting

 

[68c]

Thank you for sharing that, they are amazing machines. My mother had never travelled out of the country and have to say I was delighted to have taken her to Europe on a Hoverspeed craft I used them as often as I could as I never got tired of just how amazing they were. Somehow we seem to have gone backwards with travel, Even the Hydrofoil ferry from Harwich no longer operates

I remember getting a window seat on one of those huge car ferry hovercraft. Disappointed as windows covered in sand so not much if a view. Then someone hosed down the windows, great I thought. Hovered from the concrete pad to the sea and of course the spray whipped up the sand again, what with that and the continual spray no view again for the journey. The mistake the industry made was to class them as aircraft rather than ships, the CAA got involved with endless rules and legislation, the crew classed as aircrew with all that entailed. Perhaps building something that spends it life on salt water from thin aircraft aluminium alloy not such a clever idea or using aircraft engines and not diesels. Modern hovercraft have a different construction, no real need to travel that last hundred yards on land so fixed side skirts, aluminium ship building technology with modern diesel engines.