How green is switching to an electric car?
- Thread starter Coolcats
- Start date
Just wait until the majority have EV's, and see what happens to the current "Free" VED !! !!!
As far as I'm aware the Government have never promoted one fuel over another............obviously not old enough to remember in the 90's when we were all conned into believing that Petrol was evil and that Diesel was much cleaner ? cheaper / safer, Well at least it was until well over 50% had converted, then prices overtook petrol, and it was the evil one, and everyone being conned into the next technology, Electric.
Wonder what will be next !!!
Indirectly with tax incentives currently. Not sure about diesel/petrol though
- Jun 29, 2015
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I went to see a friend yesterday and found he now has an EV. He is worried about the cost of living so he has got rid of his diesel car and his wife's petrol car, which almost never got used. He has bought a Chinese MG EV, with extras it was about £34,000, he is having a power point installed at his home and with additions like charging leads the total cost is about £35,000. He has found a free charging point near the gym he goes to 3 or 4 times a week, for most short journeys this is enough to keep the car charged. He has just done a longish trip, over 200 miles and although not completely stress free, he had no real problems. He has only had the car a short time, but for the 900 miles he has done in it the fuel cost is £17. He pays no road tax, the insurance is about the same, servicing is about £100 a year and that includes free AA cover as well. The car has a 7 year warrantee. If I didn't tow a caravan I would be tempted.
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Many people who live in flats, or houses without gardens can't use the plug in charger, so would have to rely on paid for or free charging and not a lot of them are fast charging afaik
Cost of living can't be that much of a problem if he can afford £35k outlay !!
- Jun 29, 2015
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Almost all of the money came from trading in the cars they had. His car value £18,000 and her's £14,000
Vimes' Boots. You need money to save money.
I would have sold both private and bought a little diesel car for a few hundred quid, £30 a year road tax, servicing pennies and the best bit is £32000 in the bank.
But we are all different.
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- Jan 11, 2010
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- Well that`s our 14th year & still loving it.
What will the car be worth in 7yrs, currently that has cost him £5100 a year to run, that's without taking into consideration the cost of charging, new tyres, any other consumable and Insurance.
I don't think the vehicle will have much of a resale value as the battery will be coming to the end of it's life.
I don't see anything there to tempt me.
Spot on here, if we wouldn't have solar, would have not considered a electric car. All you do is shift emission to the power station.
Burning a fossil fuel at a power station, sending the electricity across the grid, storing it in a battery and then using it in an EV motor is considerably more efficient than burning petrol or diesel in a combustion engine. So even in countries with poor levels of renewably generated electricity, EVs are still using fossil fuels at a lower rate.
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Coolcats
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- Jan 24, 2019
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Maybe not due to the energy loss both at the power station, national and local transmission network https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/losses/ you also have to factor in the higher energy cost in the original production of the vehicle
It’s not more efficient in any way you put it.
But I was more to the point of charging from renewables, removing the need for the power station.
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Power stations running fossil fuels are about 50% efficient. Power grids lose a few percent. Batteries and electric motors are pretty about 90% efficient. So about 40% of the power gets to moving you forwards.
A modern combustion engine at maximum efficiency is about 50%. But you're not running at ideal speeds most of the time. So in reality 25-30% makes it to forward momentum. And that's ignoring the energy to refine and transport the fuel.
When you start to factor in that some of our electricity comes from renewables, it makes EVs even greener.
I agree with the power station. Even so the ice engine is ahead, all it has to do is mechanical work, to turn the wheels, not turn a generator, that’s where the loses are. I can drive 100km with 5L of diesel. Can the power station give me 100km out of the same 5L diesel?
As mentioned, my point was to charge from renewables local, not from the grid (power station). . If I buy a EV to rely on the grid for charging, then they got me by the balls with no choice. The fact I have my own source, made the EV sense for me.
As mentioned, my point was to charge from renewables local, not from the grid (power station). . If I buy a EV to rely on the grid for charging, then they got me by the balls with no choice. The fact I have my own source, made the EV sense for me.
Who was it that said, 'there's lies, damn lies and statistics'
The best form of forward energy I have seen in 77yrs is man,
he/she can convert water efficiently and walk many miles for many days on very little fuel?
The best form of forward energy I have seen in 77yrs is man,
he/she can convert water efficiently and walk many miles for many days on very little fuel?
Steve and Denise
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I must admit I am not to keen on EVs as all we seem to be doing is moving the carbon footprint to power station.
on the other hand every litre of fuel we buy we give the government around a pound to waste on whatever they want,
so at the moment the jury is out but short journeys around our local area it would make sense for us, but it’s only a cheap mode of transportation at the moment until we are paying road duty on charging points.
on the other hand every litre of fuel we buy we give the government around a pound to waste on whatever they want,
so at the moment the jury is out but short journeys around our local area it would make sense for us, but it’s only a cheap mode of transportation at the moment until we are paying road duty on charging points.
1kg of diesel is 45.5MJ of energy, which is ~12.6kWh.
12.6kWh/kg x 5 litres x 0.85 kg/litre = 53.7kWh theoretical maximum energy in 5L of diesel
53.7kWh x 50% power station efficiency x 90% charger efficiency = 24.2kWh in an EVs battery
24.2kWh x 7km/kWh (Tesla Model 3) = 169km
EVs are very efficient at using power.
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Sure, I don’t contest your calcs. The point I was making , you still shift the pollution to the power station, less of it if the EV, I agree.
Now, if you charge the EV from renewables, the power station does not need to cover that, and you take a diesel of the road. If you still rely fully on the power station, that efficiency will be eaten up quick by demand.
I was under impression a litre of diesel holds just over 10kwh of energy.
Now, if you charge the EV from renewables, the power station does not need to cover that, and you take a diesel of the road. If you still rely fully on the power station, that efficiency will be eaten up quick by demand.
I was under impression a litre of diesel holds just over 10kwh of energy.
12.6kWh per kg. So it is about 10.7kWh per litre.
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Coolcats
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You missed national and local transmission loss, there are also other energy loss's plus creating an EV in the first instance uses far more energy than a ICE vehicle (listen to the Radio program) which is why it takes 11 years 80,000 miles for an average driver to break even (Corsa vs Corsa E). Currently EV's are not as green as the headline.
Having said this we do need to move away from fossil Fuels and absolutely loved the BMW I3
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Coolcats
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Just think of how much materials would be saved if the manufacturers cam up with aftermarket Hydrogen Conversion kits, happy days we could then keep the MoHo's and other vehicles on the road with clean energy for decades.
We had some logs delivered last week, the log company have 5 kilns he said to kiln dry them, so it’s the same principle as you say, the emissions just shift from your chimney to theirs.
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And like a lot of other greenwash schemes, the guy drying the logs will be getting a Government FIT style payment for running his biomass boiler to dry the logs too.
We have to pay to get our sale logs dried now, air dried was good enough for years and virtually zero energy input, but now you have to burn logs (woodchip actually) to dry logs.
We've been there, just hundreds of years ago , we view child labour from our perspective not from theirs, they might be grateful they're being paid and their family isn't starving.Ah yes - EV's are green, pollution free and good for the planet & it's population...
Assuming they're being paid that is , exploitation is everywhere , even in first world countries , look at P&O
In rural area with a bit of space you can actually build a inexpensive solar kiln, in similar fashion of a green house, just a plain see trough plastic roof that collects the moisture and drips into a gutter, and drains out. You can speed the curing process by half, compared to natural seasoning, but no energy input for the kiln. Just sun.And like a lot of other greenwash schemes, the guy drying the logs will be getting a Government FIT style payment for running his biomass boiler to dry the logs too.
We have to pay to get our sale logs dried now, air dried was good enough for years and virtually zero energy input, but now you have to burn logs (woodchip actually) to dry logs.
Hydrogenobviously not old enough to remember in the 90's when we were all conned into believing that Petrol was evil and that Diesel was much cleaner ? cheaper / safer, Well at least it was until well over 50% had converted, then prices overtook petrol, and it was the evil one, and everyone being conned into the next technology, Electric.
Wonder what will be next !!!
Hope so, with conversion kits !!
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