How did they unlock my cab?

[Sue and Rick]

I can’t believe what I’m reading.

Ha ha. Yes, I leave our keys in the ignition too.
Seriously, don't do that.

 

[Sue and Rick]

Wheny daughter's car was stolen the police said the thieves have laptops that fire all the key unlock codes very fast, they keep going until the indicators flash

Is that just for keyless entry or will it do them all ?

 

[Sue and Rick]

Why not just give the guy a chance, he comes on here for simple advice from all us “experts” to read all the negative comments on it. Hope he comes back and posts an update

Unless he can access the computer to see if the doors were actually locked he wont know. ( unless he has the puncture wound under the drivers handle)

 

[Emmit]

Generally speaking;
If you've got a coachbuilts van, either fit deadlocks or something to strap/chain n/s to o/s doors.
Then fit a Milenco door lock. That product allows one to put a metal bar across the door FROM THE INSIDE! or OUTSIDE.

 

[seascape72]

They pushed a small round implement up under the driver’s door handle and popped the lock. Look underneath it carefully, you will see a mark.

Yep. I would never have noticed it unless told to look for it. Thanks.

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[seascape72]

Here is my thread after exactly the same happened to us.

Fitting Pro-plates to Fiat Ducato 2015 model

Promised description from husband. It will probably take a few posts to add the photos. Fitting Pro-Plates to Fiat Ducati doors I have just finished fitting Pro-Plates with studs to the manual locking doors (driver’s door and rear “barn” door) of a FIAT Ducato. Although it wasn’t a...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Very helpful. I am looking into getting a Pro-plate installed. Any recommended installers in the south of England?

 

[seascape72]

I'm afraid this is a nonsense thread in more levels than you can think about.

Perfect. Thanks for the nonsense reply then.

 

[Howard B]

Dunno how good these plates are but cheap as chips from Aliexpress

For Citroen Relay / Fiat Ducato / Peugeot Boxer 2006 - Onwards Door Handle Pro Plate Anti-Burglary - AliExpress 34

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Easy enough to fit yourself.

 

[seascape72]

The chances are that the doors were not even locked despite leaving the keys in the ignition.. which in itself is a big no no.
If The passenger door was opening first then the entral locking was probably never engaged in the first place.
The moral is . Never overnight
in a Service station especially one near a ferry port and never leave keys in the ignition.
If we ever just stop in a service station one of us always stays with the van and all doors are kept locked even if just fuelling up.
The OP was very lucky.

Why not just give the guy a chance, he comes on here for simple advice from all us “experts” to read all the negative comments on it. Hope he comes back and posts an update

Thanks PP Bear. To all those aghast at me leaving the keys in the ignition, I do not normally do that but I pulled over, checked the doors were locked and forgot to take the keys out of the ignition before I went straight to sleep. But evidently that was irrelevant to the attempted break-in. I was not aware that the Ducato is so easy to get into and I will certainly take more precautions in future.

 

[LesW]

Yep. I would never have noticed it unless told to look for it. Thanks.



View attachment 942970

Makes you wonder why manufacturers bother fitting door locks if it's that easy

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[Jimbohorlicks]

Makes you wonder why manufacturers bother fitting door locks if it's that easy

Scarey isnt it when it's so simple.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Very helpful. I am looking into getting a Pro-plate installed. Any recommended installers in the south of England?

We did it ourselves using youtube videos to see how to access inside of door , remove Remis blinds etc. it didn’t involve anything difficult once you know how to remove things. I would think any motorhome repairers would do it.
Did you find a tiny dink under the handle?

 

[Driventemple]

The motorhome is based on a 2017 Fiat Ducato chassis.

Fiat started fitting internal 'deflector' plates in 2017 to prevent this happening. Mine is a 2017 manufacture and I found them when I fitted Proplates. Still fitted the Proplates as a visual deterrent.

 

[Boldly]

German van parked next to me in pineda de mar. Don't know when it was done though as can't speak German

 

[Richard n Ann]

Get some of these Thatcham deadlocks. A highly visible deterant, nobody will ever even try

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[Gromett]

Wheny daughter's car was stolen the police said the thieves have laptops that fire all the key unlock codes very fast, they keep going until the indicators flash

Is that just for keyless entry or will it do them all ?

This is not how it works any more. In the old day 20 odd years ago this may have worked.

Modern cars use an encyptions system where the message is encrypted and this provides authentication. A code sent by a laptop will not be encrypted using the correct key.

The problem van owners may have is the what is called Man in the Middle attacks (MITM). You have probable seen this in the news. This only works for vehicles that automatically unlock in the presence of the fob I believe.
The laptop tries to trigger a fob to respond. It then sits the middle and relays the data backwards and forwards.

Best bet is to keep the keys in a metal box or pouch when not in use if you have this type of system.

 

[Gromett]

Get some of these Thatcham deadlocks. A highly visible deterant, nobody will ever even try View attachment 943031

That is my first choice for a security system. Visible and makes breaking in undesirable. They cannot open the door for a fast escape and stealing the vehicle is unattractive as they would make the vehicle unsellable after the theft without a great deal of work.

 

[Garfields]

The snag is it is so easy to force a read window or skylight.

 

[Two of usI]

This is not how it works any more. In the old day 20 odd years ago this may have worked.

Modern cars use an encyptions system where the message is encrypted and this provides authentication. A code sent my a laptop will not be encrypted using the correct key.

The problem van owners may have is the what is called Man in the Middle attacks (MITM). You have probable seen this in the news. This only works for vehicles that automatically unlock in the presence of the fob I believe.
The laptop tries to trigger a fob to response. It then sits the middle and relays the data backwards and forwards.

Best bet is to keep the keys in a metal box or pouch when not in use if you have this type of system.

Perhaps you could update Southampton C.I.D.

 

[PaulW2]

I have the Van Bitz Growler and routinely set it at night. Hopefully the flashing blue lights will serve as enough of a deterrent.

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[Two on Tour]

The snag is it is so easy to force a read window or skylight.

It's also easy to alarm them, I have.

 

[Richard n Ann]

The problem with alarms is by the time the alarm goes off they've damaged your door I don't think a flashing LED will deter them, they'll try anyway seeing as they are so easy to open, worse case scenario for them is they have to run off

 

[seascape72]

We did it ourselves using youtube videos to see how to access inside of door , remove Remis blinds etc. it didn’t involve anything difficult once you know how to remove things. I would think any motorhome repairers would do it.
Did you find a tiny dink under the handle?

Yes Riverbankannie, I posted a photo in my previous reply to your helpful post. It isn't a hole exactly, more of a little dent in the gasket and a slight mark under the handle.

 

[Gromett]

Perhaps you could update Southampton C.I.D.

Not my job. I suspect you think the police know better than me?

Look up "Rolling codes", any half decent system stops accepting attempts for a couple of minutes after a number of failed attempts.
In the meantime the code has changed again. In the 80s, 90s and perhaps later for a few lazy manufacturers a single code was tied to the fob and car and scanning through would have worked.
In early 2000 this was unacceptable because laptops came down in price and scanning for codes as you say became trivial. Manufacturers implemented the rolling code system to prevent this.
Pretty much any vehicle made after 2000 will have a fob with a rolling code that is not susceptible to the brute force attack as described.

With Rolling codes the code changes after every use. And brute force attacks cause the system to pause inputs for a few minutes making the process even slower that it would be.

Those are two very, very basic technologies, the PKE (Public Key Encryption) found on newer systems make it even harder to hack and impossible for the brute force methods to even be attempted.

 

[Gromett]

Yep. I would never have noticed it unless told to look for it. Thanks.



View attachment 942970

Thanks for sharing. Very informative.

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[gus-lopez]

They pushed a small round implement up under the driver’s door handle and popped the lock. Look underneath it carefully, you will see a mark.

I'm sure they can do either door & on transist definitely the mark6/7 it can be done on either the side door or the rear door but is far more difficult.It is also why i have a stainless steelplate on the side door directly over where any attack can take place to access the central locking

f The passenger door was opening first then the entral locking was probably never engaged in the first place.

As has been stated it can be disabled by accessing the control rod easily through the door .Fiat isn't the ony vehicle that is able to be opened this way but is the easiest

You must have Riverbankannie on ignore then.... Post 7 is hidden if ignore is set.

so is #26 for me?

Yep. I would never have noticed it unless told to look for it. Thanks.



View attachment 942970

Thanks for coming back & confirming that it was what was thought. Take no notice over the doom mongers. I like others,park only in service areas, aire de repos, lay bays etc, during my travels .nowhere else.

Did you find a tiny dink under the handle?

Yes he posted


as an aside for some of you I have a Transit 2007 what is known as a mark 7. I believe this applies to all from 2006-2014

On the PVC the only door with a mechanical lock is the drivers. This would also be the case with a C class.
All other doors ,passenger ,side & rear require the remote to unlock or the physical key to be used.
The drivers door lock has a similar failing to the Fiat in that a simple pair of water pump pliers gripping the outer cover of the door lock & forcing in either direction, actually unlocks the central locking just as if you had used the key.
The answer to this is a circular tube around the lock & secured under it & all secured with the original lock slide internally.
Or as posted fit dead locks to both front doors.

To return to the remote again. The battery on the 2006-2014 transit remote is not removable but is rechargeable. The thing that most people,including me, do not realise is that the battery is charged by the key being in the ignition..

Normally this is not a problem unless you park up for long periods .Like me,


In 2022 I parked at the daughter's. I am lh drive so reverse on drive with drivers door tight against a wall
both cab doors deadlocked externally .Internally both mechanically locked so only way in through them is to break window & climb in& out .
Rear doors are always dead locked internally with upper & lower shoot bolts except during the day when I access van for tools.
Rear & side doors also have external milenco slide locks.
Normally the only way of accessing the van is through the side door . Which is deadlocked externally always & if I go out or have no reason to access the van the central locking is activated & with the dead locking turned on .
So having been parked for 3 weeks & with multiple daily to & fro for tools etc.lock,deadlock,unlock ,lock, deadlock 20,30 + times a day,
Then went out ,nothing. When it dawned on me that the key was flat & 5 minutes later you tube was telling me it charged via the ignition
Now even leaning over neighbours wall & using the door lock only opens the cab doors!!! Fail safe as they assume you can access through cab door & unlock side or rear using the internal latch.
That is if i didn't have the cab doors mechanically locked with access only from the rear
A few minutes more on you tube & I came across a bloke who had done a similar thing whilst converting his van & reliably informed me that if I didn't have access to another transit or ford vehicle with same shape key then I needed the charger for an electric toothbrush as that charged the same way ; inductively.
so tooth brush charger it was for a few minutes enough to get me in.
So now when I go to bed at night when parked up long term, that's more than 2 nights to you & me , the keys go in the ignition.

 

[Sleeveless]

A close up pic of the area just under the driver's door handle may reveal damage , if not and the driver's key barrel shows no damage, then the doors may have been unlocked at the time .

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

This is not how it works any more. In the old day 20 odd years ago this may have worked.

Modern cars use an encyptions system where the message is encrypted and this provides authentication. A code sent my a laptop will not be encrypted using the correct key.

The problem van owners may have is the what is called Man in the Middle attacks (MITM). You have probable seen this in the news. This only works for vehicles that automatically unlock in the presence of the fob I believe.
The laptop tries to trigger a fob to response. It then sits the middle and relays the data backwards and forwards.

Best bet is to keep the keys in a metal box or pouch when not in use if you have this type of system.

.

 

[Jim]

I'm afraid this is a nonsense thread in more levels than you can think about.

There is nothing nonsense about this thread on any level, though your input is getting there.

 

[Jim]

I don't think a flashing LED will deter them,

I disagree. It's funny how so many people are woken by someone in their cab, but I've never known anyone to be woken by their own alarm and even if they were, the burglar will likely have scarpered at the same time you wake up. . Alarms for motorhomes work

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