Help me generate power ... mechanically!

[jezport]

How much would one cost, fully fitted?

BTW, I have over 70 quid in my piggy and the missus has over 40 in hers so would that cover it.

Around £1300 minimum, ours is a tall 3 way with manual power change over, I was considering changing for an AES one. IIRC Magnums have them in stock

 

[Blue Knight]

Around £1300 minimum, ours is a tall 3 way with manual power change over, I was considering changing for an AES one. IIRC Magnums have them in stock

That's useful to know.

I'll need a bigger pig for sure

 

[jezport]

That's useful to know.

I'll need a bigger pig for sure

Offer me £1000 for mine and I may consider changing mine for an AES model

 

[Landy Andy]

So what's the benefit of a modern electric fridge?

“Modern” electric fridge, which I’m assuming is a 12volt fridge, is a compressor fridge, the same as you have in your house, not an absorption fridge (standard MoHo 12v, gas, 240v ones).

Due to it being a compressor fridge it’s much more efficient and uses far less power when on 12v. It is not so effected by heat, and you don’t need the massive vents on the outside of the vehicle. Less gas pipes to run. Safer as no gas, and also no servicing required. To a degree it’s simple as you don’t have all the parts to allow it to run on three different power sources.

Is that what you have Minxy Girl?

 

[LesW]

“Modern” electric fridge, which I’m assuming is a 12volt fridge, is a compressor fridge, the same as you have in your house, not an absorption fridge (standard MoHo 12v, gas, 240v ones).

Due to it being a compressor fridge it’s much more efficient and uses far less power when on 12v. It is not so effected by heat, and you don’t need the massive vents on the outside of the vehicle. Less gas pipes to run. Safer as no gas, and also no servicing required. To a degree it’s simple as you don’t have all the parts to allow it to run on three different power sources.

Is that what you have Minxy Girl?

Very informative, thank you very much, are they as noisy as a domestic fridge?

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[jezport]

SMC offered me a deal on a new van the same as mine. I turned it down as it has the electric fridge which is a lot smaller than my 3 way. The tall fridge was hard to find in A PVC and is now even harder!

 

[Minxy]

How much would one cost, fully fitted?

BTW, I have over 70 quid in my piggy and the missus has over 40 in hers so would that cover it.

That's a very kind offer but I don't think £110 will help much, unless of course I start a 'crowd funding' plea as some people seem willing to throw money at them for any reason!

 

[Minxy]

The flexi panels suffer more from reduced power in hot weather as air cannot circulate under them to cool them, its probably why they are less reliable also

... thing is, in hot weather you tend to have lots and lots of sun so it doesn't make a jot of difference, but as ours is on the 'corrugated' roof of the PVC it gets plenty of air under it anyway, but I appreciate on a flat coachbuilt/a-class roof it wouldn't.

 

[Minxy]

“Modern” electric fridge, which I’m assuming is a 12volt fridge, is a compressor fridge, the same as you have in your house, not an absorption fridge (standard MoHo 12v, gas, 240v ones).

Due to it being a compressor fridge it’s much more efficient and uses far less power when on 12v. It is not so effected by heat, and you don’t need the massive vents on the outside of the vehicle. Less gas pipes to run. Safer as no gas, and also no servicing required. To a degree it’s simple as you don’t have all the parts to allow it to run on three different power sources.

Is that what you have Minxy Girl?

Yup, Thetford T1090 (mark 2).

It is much simpler to use as you say, no messing about having to change energy source, no "did I put the fridge on gas?" questions as you're just walked half an hour away ... or getting up from the seat just as you're about to set off to make sure it's on 12v, also a proper locking fridge door so that as soon as you close it, it's secure, rather than a lot of 3-way ones which you have to put a catch on (yes we've had the flying butter, cheese, etc making a bid for freedom when going round a corner!). It is noisier than a 3-way though, but not generally for long as it kicks in and out with the power as/when needed, also ours has a night mode which reduces the noise quite a bit and we've found a good 'level' for the settings which means it now doesn't disturb us overnight.

We like the simplicity of a 12v only fridge and we're pretty happy with ours (in mark 2 form) but it can be a 'hungry baby' at times hence our wanting to make sure we can feed it when it demands it to prevent 'crying' ... when my ice-cream goes soft!

 

[Minxy]

Offer me £1000 for mine and I may consider changing mine for an AES model

Oi ... I thought I was first in the queue for yours!

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[bobandjanie]

The flexi panels suffer more from reduced power in hot weather as air cannot circulate under them to cool them, its probably why they are less reliable also

Have you had this experience yourself @jezport and was it with the early flexible panels that failed.
Our last van conversion we fitted 2 x 100w they were still as good as the day we fitted them after 4 years.

We fitted the same on our present van conversion in March and yes just as pleased with them.
You mention air flow and keeping cool, we only do hot sunny climates and they seem to love it.

Maybe it's the lack of that causes them to stop working. Bob.

 

[jezport]

Oi ... I thought I was first in the queue for yours!

Didnt know you were still interested since you changed vans.

 

[tacr2man]

I have run a 12v dual compressor fridge freezer on a 110ah battery in a dual battery system in my landrover overnight in Australian summer conditions. No solar. I also currently run a full size double door fridge freezer in my RV thru a inverter , off a 470ah (50%) battery bank supplied thru 900w solar , even thru this winter it hasn't dropped below 90% charge (shown in morning before solar start up) .
@Minxy Girl If you can add extra battery would be kinder to your existing batteries .
Then for when you cant drive , or EHU , this might do the trick


They even do a 95amp version !!

 

[two]

I’m puzzled that your fridge is making such high demands on your batteries. I assume that the back of it, where the heat exchanger is, is well-ventilated?

Rather than use a Remoska, why not look at an Omnia cooker instead? Omnia is compact and light and sits on the gas hob. Not quite the same, but at least it doesn’t require EHU.

 

[Landy Andy]

Very informative, thank you very much, are they as noisy as a domestic fridge?

Yes these are noisy like your home fridge, cutting in and out. But as mentioned some have a night setting which makes them better, but still noisy compared to a three way fridge.

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[maxi77]

Yup, Thetford T1090 (mark 2).

It is much simpler to use as you say, no messing about having to change energy source, no "did I put the fridge on gas?" questions as you're just walked half an hour away ... or getting up from the seat just as you're about to set off to make sure it's on 12v, also a proper locking fridge door so that as soon as you close it, it's secure, rather than a lot of 3-way ones which you have to put a catch on (yes we've had the flying butter, cheese, etc making a bid for freedom when going round a corner!). It is noisier than a 3-way though, but not generally for long as it kicks in and out with the power as/when needed, also ours has a night mode which reduces the noise quite a bit and we've found a good 'level' for the settings which means it now doesn't disturb us overnight.

We like the simplicity of a 12v only fridge and we're pretty happy with ours (in mark 2 form) but it can be a 'hungry baby' at times hence our wanting to make sure we can feed it when it demands it to prevent 'crying' ... when my ice-cream goes soft!

Looking at the manufacturers data it seems quite hungry at four or so amps but there is no info on expected duty cycle which for a compressor fridge well installed and insulated be under 30%. Have you tried either using the night setting which does appear to use less power though it may increase the duty cycle. It may be worth also looking at the temperature setting, going less cold will decrease the duty cycle and thus power consumption.

Compressor fridges are the most energy efficient and with a good installation and managed energy supply will give good service. Perhaps a closer look at your overall energy use and budget may show up other areas where you may make savings or it may be you just need more storage and more generation. In terms of cost effectiveness solar is almost always best.

 

[Basildog]

Looking at the manufacturers data it seems quite hungry at four or so amps but there is no info on expected duty cycle which for a compressor fridge well installed and insulated be under 30%. Have you tried either using the night setting which does appear to use less power though it may increase the duty cycle. It may be worth also looking at the temperature setting, going less cold will decrease the duty cycle and thus power consumption.

Compressor fridges are the most energy efficient and with a good installation and managed energy supply will give good service. Perhaps a closer look at your overall energy use and budget may show up other areas where you may make savings or it may be you just need more storage and more generation. In terms of cost effectiveness solar is almost always best.

Not horizontally mounted panels in the winter !
Wouldn’t matter if you had several kilowatts of panels.

 

[maxi77]

Yes these are noisy like your home fridge, cutting in and out. But as mentioned some have a night setting which makes them better, but still noisy compared to a three way fridge.

On the other hand three way or absorption fridges are the least energy efficient of all even worse than thermo-electric. That is why they are usually set up so the 12 volt power can only be used when the alternator is providing power.

 

[maxi77]

Not horizontally mounted panels in the winter !
Wouldn’t matter if you had several kilowatts of panels.

The OP was talking about Spain, hence my comment. Over winter in the UK it is either the noise of wind when it blows or the noise of a genny, and I would choose the genny, even a small one has power left over for the remoska whilst charging.

 

[Basildog]

The OP was talking about Spain, hence my comment. Over winter in the UK it is either the noise of wind when it blows or the noise of a genny, and I would choose the genny, even a small one has power left over for the remoska whilst charging.

I know
Doesn’t the sun drop in the sky in Spain anymore as it did when I lived there ?

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[maxi77]

I know
Doesn’t the sun drop in the sky in Spain anymore as it did when I lived there ?

Certainly where we are in Portugal you still get a decent input from the sun compared to the UK as you pointed out

 

[Lenny HB]

Yes these are noisy like your home fridge,

Crikey you must have a noisy home fridge, our fridge freezer is 30 years old and has started making a bit of noise in the last year. By a bit of noise I mean if the house is really quiet you can sometimes just about hear it running.

 

[Minxy]

Looking at the manufacturers data it seems quite hungry at four or so amps but there is no info on expected duty cycle which for a compressor fridge well installed and insulated be under 30%. Have you tried either using the night setting which does appear to use less power though it may increase the duty cycle. It may be worth also looking at the temperature setting, going less cold will decrease the duty cycle and thus power consumption.

At night I've noticed that it appears to come on once every hour roughly for about 15 mins then goes off for 45 mins, and repeats this, it may not come on quite as much, or reduce the 'on' time during the early hours but I'm usually asleep then so don't check the clock!
The fridge is above a cupboard/wardrobe so directly next to where my bonce goes on the bed (we sleep the 'wrong way round' on our single beds as we prefer to have a 'head board' rather than windows to sit up against). At one point I tried sleeping the 'proper' way round (with my feet nearest the fridge) but even then on 'night mode & 3' it was too noisy. We experimented with the settings whilst away and putting it on 'night setting & 2 has proved to be the best option as it's sufficient to keep the stuff in it cold/frozen so I can sleep with my head near it without too much disturbance.

Compressor fridges are the most energy efficient and with a good installation and managed energy supply will give good service. Perhaps a closer look at your overall energy use and budget may show up other areas where you may make savings or it may be you just need more storage and more generation. In terms of cost effectiveness solar is almost always best.

Nothing really to make energy savings on as we don't use a lot really, just an hours telly, lights (kept to a minimum anyway), and charging up stuff if needs be (usually done on the move if we can). Solar I agree is great ... when you've got sufficient sun to put the energy back in ... in winter in Southern Spain, even on lovely sunny days, it doesn't put a massive amount back in ... I want to be able to stop for the number of days I want to at the place I want to and not be 'dictated' to by the power requirements of a flipping fridge making me have to move or go on a campsite etc to keep it happy ... hence considering getting a genny.

I'm going to recheck all of my solar installation, output from panels etc, and the leisure batteries to make sure they are connected properly with the correct size of cabling used (I didn't put them in) just in case there's something daft going on there that's exacerbating the issue, I suspect its all okey-dokey but best to check it all just in case and take it from there.

 

[Minxy]

Crikey you must have a noisy home fridge, our fridge freezer is 30 years old and has started making a bit of noise in the last year. By a bit of noise I mean if the house is really quiet you can sometimes just about hear it running.

To be fair Lenny, they're not the quietest of things, try sleeping on your kitchen floor next to your fridge freezer and when everything else is quiet it's surprising just how much louder something can appear, at least with the camper one I can put it on night setting to mitigate it.

 

[HandyAndy]

If you already has lpg(someone mentioned you have afully installed one, buy a gas fridge instead of a genny!

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[CazPaul]

I suspect you are correct in that everything is fitted, wired correctly and that it is simply the type of fridge which does not suit your style of camping and that an absorption 3 way, quiet fridge is what you need, it's a shame you couldn't have had the option to choose one when you got a new one under warranty recently.I
It will save the need for a genny as the solar can be utilised for your other power and in winter the fridge will be on gas, so no noise, sleep better, no power issues.

 

[Minxy]

If you already has lpg(someone mentioned you have afully installed one, buy a gas fridge instead of a genny!

Yup, 2 x 11kg Gaslow which I moved across from our other camper, which now lasts ages, in fact we didn't even use the equivalent of 1 bottle during our 60 days away*. Installing a gas fridge isn't easy though, gas pipe would need running, drop vents and 2 large side vents would need to be put in the camper first, not to mention probably having to alter the cabinet work to make one fit (assuming there's one that would fit within the narrow space), so all in all it would be quite a major undertaking and I hate to think what the cost would be but probably well over £1,000 even if I could do some of it myself.

Its a matter of balancing the benefit and cost alongside other options which may help mitigate the issue and possibly give us other benefits too ... hence our decision to look at gennies ... we have the storage space and hubby will be able to use his Remoska ... I'm drooling already at the thought of tucking into roasted pork with lovely crackling whilst sitting in the sun in my favouring beach spot in Spain!

* We worked out that with our previous camper the 3-way fridge on average used about 2/3rds of a litre a day with cooking about 1/3rd, so approximate 1 litre a day max (depending on what hubby was cooking!). With this fridge being 12v we're only using a 1/3rd litre a day so the gas last lasts a loooooooooooooooooooot longer (obviously). Even using heating doesn't use a massive amount as we don't leave it on all the time and usually not over no 3 (middle), as, once up to temperature, the van doesn't take much to keep warm so it soon gets dropped to 2 or even 1, therefore during our 60 days away we got through less than 20 litres.

 

[Minxy]

I suspect you are correct in that everything is fitted, wired correctly and that it is simply the type of fridge which does not suit your style of camping and that an absorption 3 way, quiet fridge is what you need, it's a shame you couldn't have had the option to choose one when you got a new one under warranty recently.I
It will save the need for a genny as the solar can be utilised for your other power and in winter the fridge will be on gas, so no noise, sleep better, no power issues.

As above, if I could have got a 3-way I would have but not an option, I think its gonna become increasingly difficult to get PVCs in the future with 3-way fridges as the converters must love the 12v ones for cost and east of installation!

Anyway back to my OP ... gennys ... some members have made suggestions as to what would be suitable, what to look out for etc, and any more would be much appreciated especially 'real world' experience of any particular gennys as I don't want to end up buying something that is way too big for my needs (power and size wise) but too little for us to be able to use it for what we want.

 

[Nirvanauk]

Are you really sure you want to carry a stinky genny and fuel around in a PVC?

 

[Two on Tour]

Are you really sure you want to carry a stinky genny and fuel around in a PVC?

As @Minxy Girl mentioned at the begin of the thread, she has a husband so she's used to noisy and smelly things being in the van.

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