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Full time through winter in search of new life
- Thread starter dawsey
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I think it depends on the subject. Some just whine on forever about Brexit and won’t let it go but I think the OPs post was informative about the different rules now we are separated so in the right context I cannot see any issues with mentioning Brexit.
Jim
Ringleader
No. Politics are allowed to be discussed in the belly locker. The proscribed topics are the most devisive, and one where views are entrenched and all discussions end up with insults or bickering. These are; Brexit, Immigration and Scottish Independence.
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- Apr 13, 2019
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Well said!
As far as I could see, all that Dawsey was eluding too were the consequences and experiences he is/ has/ will personally encounter on his journey that perhaps were not envisioned by most after our membership departure.
I think quite a lot of unseen stuff is gradually creeping out of the woodwork , and not just in Europe, but here too.
The Times they are a-changing!
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Nice with pineapple.
I only did a handful of answers and updates since post #1130, the rest up to #1177 has been a reaction to a single throwaway comment about just one of the difficulties that UK leaving EU has created for an Anglo-French couple as we attempt to relocate from UK to France post Brexit all the while carrying out an extended search for a place in our camper.
It seems some, well, one in particular, still has an extreme over-reaction to any mention of the consequences of said event, though interestingly the vast majority appear to be far more circumspect and at least willing to consider and contemplate the genuine impact it is having on individuals and organisations who need or want to move themselves or any belongings or goods backward and forward between our Islands and perhaps the most economically powerful and aggressively protectionist trading bloc on the planet - the one which we now find ourselves firmly outside.
It seems some, well, one in particular, still has an extreme over-reaction to any mention of the consequences of said event, though interestingly the vast majority appear to be far more circumspect and at least willing to consider and contemplate the genuine impact it is having on individuals and organisations who need or want to move themselves or any belongings or goods backward and forward between our Islands and perhaps the most economically powerful and aggressively protectionist trading bloc on the planet - the one which we now find ourselves firmly outside.
I think we expected rights o stay, why wouldn’t we, theirs did but heyho it is interesting to read your actual problems in real time. The majority of this would not come across them as we only visit and are not intending to emigrate there.
The only thing is dawsey is why did you not move over before, there were a few years where things were still being settled after the vote. You could’ve avoided a lot of these things surely then?
Anyway, I’m really pleased That you are looking and finally found the place you want. I’m sure a disappointed lots of members on here. We’re looking forward to visiting you. But perhaps what they will have to do instead is organise a rally there as a large group. I suppose that would be okay as long as your car park was big enough for a lot of motorhomes, well, they stayed in luxury in your accommodation!
The only thing is dawsey is why did you not move over before, there were a few years where things were still being settled after the vote. You could’ve avoided a lot of these things surely then?
Anyway, I’m really pleased That you are looking and finally found the place you want. I’m sure a disappointed lots of members on here. We’re looking forward to visiting you. But perhaps what they will have to do instead is organise a rally there as a large group. I suppose that would be okay as long as your car park was big enough for a lot of motorhomes, well, they stayed in luxury in your accommodation!
I have no worries with it at all but why we can't talk about it without falling out I don't know and why that one bloke has to keep running to teacher is beyond me.
But I will add in your case , you know what you are getting into , it's all set out so if that's what you want to do that's what you have to do it's no use keep blaming something that happened years ago.
It's what it is and that's it. Pretty much like wanting to start a business in any foreign country.
But I will add in your case , you know what you are getting into , it's all set out so if that's what you want to do that's what you have to do it's no use keep blaming something that happened years ago.
It's what it is and that's it. Pretty much like wanting to start a business in any foreign country.
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No choice really, mortgages had to be paid etc. Besides, it was as much the pandemic as anything else that led to the decision. Like so many, the break from a 2hr daily commute and 9hrs in an office resulted in not wanting to go back to it. Also very high UK income tax on highish earners. I got tired of paying a marginal rate of 63% on a chunk of earnings. It couldn’t even be funnelled to a pension anymore. I’m one of that cohort of 50 something high earning professional who decided to just exit the workforce post the pandemic that people in government like to go on about.
I’m not trying to blame anything Chaser, just trying to tell it like it is and then just getting on with it.
On the difficulties of buying a going concern and starting a business over here, we’ll, they don’t have much to do with Brexit, and I don’t believe I say they do.. more to do with impenetrable French bureaucracy.
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Yes five posts on here & all about the same subject.Nothing useful.
Dawsey have you ever watch ‘Chateau DIY’ on channel 4. There are are several people that hire out the whole place for events (yoga, painting etc) and Weddings similar to your ideas. Just thought it may give you some idea on the setup involved.
Good luck with your adventure, enjoyed reading your blog
Whoah, on this import you are clearly in a different circle of Hell from me and my Daytona. All I can offer is that my sister in law who has lived in France for decades and ignores most of the rules most of the time (registration, tax, permissions for gite, horses, work, foreign cars) through insouciance more than premeditation, has experienced no problems at all. She lives in a very small commune and is a very good neighbour. But then, her cars don’t attract a second glance from a distance. And of course it may change.Such a good comment it deserves a second follow up..
This place was actually designed as a luxury musicians retreat. I might have swang the lawnmower but I had no joy with the piano. I console myself (as an oldie!) with the fact that the stonework around the indoor pool has underfloor heating…
I hear you on the import stuff. The CoC was just step one. It is of course needed now going in and out of EU/UK and for those who perhaps still do not appreciate the eye watering costs, the company that made a couple of my cars (a UK company) has recently seen an opportunity and has raised the price of a CoC from £199 to £1000 + VAT. I need two of them. They wouldn’t have been able to do that under EU law.
One is a 45yr old classic. It’s registered in UK as historic. The process of import to France is via the FFVE (federation francais vehicule d’epoch). There’s lots of form filling and declarations. The process does not use the ANTS. All vehicles must be absolutely standard (mine isn’t, I got rid of the old 1970’s 3 speed slush box and fitted a 1990’s 6 speed manual). It will be fun.
The registration charges for the other cars (this is just to register - not to insure) are going to be €10,000. It’s because my stuff is heavy 4x4 (they tax it heavily) and high power (the French really, really tax that heavily especially when quite new).
Prior to you know what, there was no real need to import/export re-register. Now there’s no way around it.
So there we are, the additional costs just associated with taking some nice cars with me to France are around £14,000. This is just one couple and their stuff, one move of life.
Are the mods a big problem? As a kid I bored my old Bonneville out to 750 and just didn’t tell anyone. Even my Mum thought I was just painting it. Short of whipping the head off and putting a calliper in the bore, how could anyone know? And did anyone care - I mean, really?
Forzza!
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Even if we wanted to, we wouldn’t get away with that with my stuff. My cars are going to stick out like a sore thumb in France where 99% of folk drive an old (usually French) and battered box…
It’s strange for a country with such a motorsport heritage (LeMans) but far more Frenchies than Brits just don’t care about cars. Maybe I could just ride around on the Serow.. My own bike, a 748 Ducati will likely just sit in our giant new lounge as an ornament
It’s too painful on my back and wrists for me to ride these days - I will be buying something more comfortable to actually ride over here, and it will be a Triumph. The problem with ignoring the law (same for your sister) is that it’s all fine - until it isn’t. If she gets a pull by the Gendarmes, or has an accident, especially if someone else’s nice car is damaged or much worse someone gets hurt, and they could prove she’d been doing her thing for years while ignoring the law she could find herself in hot water. It’s the same with the grand gite and event licences and insurances etc. Sure you can ignore it, but if there was a fire there’d be no insurance. If someone got hurt again we’d be in big trouble. Yes the Frenchies love to dodge their own often stupid rules, it’s always fine until something goes wrong, a sentiment I’m sure that the vast majority of the members of this forum will agree with.It’s why we’ve found a place that’s squeaky clean, legit and legal, unlike most of the places that do the group thing, including many of the manor houses and chateaux. It also just needs a really decent redecoration rather than pulling down as most of the places we’ve seen do. We do think that the French are going to start tightening up enforcement of the various laws and regulations especially after last years terrible accident.
We are buying an old farm, ugly old barn buildings, nothing to write home about from the outside. No ‘wow’ moment when it’s first seen. It’s going to be a little bit of a challenge to market compared to all the (in reality crumbling) old chateaux or large manoir that are doing the same thing. It’s even in a bit of a nondescript location.
But, as before, I think I can see good potential. Current turnover is only €60k, but the couple who created it as an early retirement present to themselves are now both 70 and not in perfect health. They accept 16-20 purely weekend bookings per year and that’s it. The fact that they get any bookings at all says much, there’s minimal advertising and the website is, well, very poor by modern standards. You’ve all seen the same, websites for french gites that were put together 20years ago, grainy photos uploaded from ancient camera phones etc.
We think going from 20 to 30 weekends by increasing the appeal to a far broader spectrum of groups by creating more rooms will be easy enough, and then offering family rooms in the place midweek through summer via AirBnB will easily add another 20% to turnover. Finally, with a super stylish makeover of the whole place and many tropical plants etc, we reckon we can offer midweek yoga retreats, business seminars and school/college groups wanting to visit the doorstep attraction which offers some of the best activities and education for young adults - they are developing rock climbing and giant zip line activities, in addition to their main and major attraction. This should conservatively add another 20% so we reckon €130-€150k should be possible within 2yrs with 65-70% margin (ZRR - it’s tax free or minimal tax for 7 years!). The current owners accountant fully agrees.
We will need to put in €300k over 3 years though to quickly get the place how we want it and add the extra rooms. €50k of that is just to build me a decent garage/man cave though, but Bea is happy as another €50k will be an overhaul of our own house, all new kitchen etc.
So a bit of input and a year or so of spending and then it should be a clean €90-100k of annual profit (from €140-150k of turnover) for just marketing and management. We will employ a cleaning team for the cleanups. Most of our costs, all bills, food etc will naturally go through the business so that’s a decent enough disposable income, and it even compares well with what we were expecting from that big campsite, where we’d hoped for €400k annual turnover, but with €100k of debt servicing, €100k of staffing costs, and €100k of operational costs inc the new static caravan loan repayments at €30k a year, we’d have had a similar disposable income, but an absolute ton more work, hassle, stress etc. Right decision methinks.
It’s an ugly prison from the outside, but the facilities on the inside are very nice. Lots of space and purpose designed as a giant house for a highly sociable and close family of 30 people. It just needs finishing (more rooms), modernising in terms of decoration, ie having life breathed into it, it looks a bit like a hospital.
The best for us is that there is a very characterful and nice sized seperate house oriented that we don’t need to see the weekend partying and they don’t need to see us. It will work very well to create the a fully optimised work-life balance in what we think is a lovely corner of France with good access to Le Mans, Loire Valley and Paris, and it’s just a couple of hours from Beas old Dad which she’s very pleased about.
All in life is a compromise - this one is the best we could find for us that can easily generate a half decent income without borrowing lots of money, without years of work to build it in the first place, and without hard graft and hassle to earn a bob or two out of it. I never thought that this would be the case 18m ago, but I am now more than happy to live with the fact that it isn’t a chateau, which from what we’ve seen, are very often just total money pits.
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Mikey RV
LIFE MEMBER
Good luck with your new project. Don’t forget the photos.
dawsey I was on my local council for two terms. One of the things we had to do (which I hated) was taking turns to handle bookings of the salle des fêtes - état des lieux in and out, showing how everything worked etc.
The only time we had problems were when we rented it out to young people. The mairie insisted that the renters provided a copy of their insurance ( don’t know which? Household one?) which provided cover if they caused any damage.
One Sunday morning I went to do the check out. Place smelt of cleaning products, looked spick and span. Checked the toilets - no urinal. They had broken it clean off the wall and hidden it, in the hope that I’d do a quick check and not notice
. Then the smell of vomit started to break through the clean pine aromas…. I called the mayor and left him to sort it 
. He subsequently discovered some broken chairs and crockery, but it was all covered by the insurance thank goodness.
Luckily detailed état des lieux and this insurance are quite standard in France, so hopefully you won’t need it but good to know it exists
PS hiring venues for a family get together, getting in a traiteur etc does seem to be quite popular in France so I’m sure your venture will do well. Good luck, really enjoy reading about your adventures
The only time we had problems were when we rented it out to young people. The mairie insisted that the renters provided a copy of their insurance ( don’t know which? Household one?) which provided cover if they caused any damage.
One Sunday morning I went to do the check out. Place smelt of cleaning products, looked spick and span. Checked the toilets - no urinal. They had broken it clean off the wall and hidden it, in the hope that I’d do a quick check and not notice
. Then the smell of vomit started to break through the clean pine aromas…. I called the mayor and left him to sort it . He subsequently discovered some broken chairs and crockery, but it was all covered by the insurance thank goodness. Luckily detailed état des lieux and this insurance are quite standard in France, so hopefully you won’t need it but good to know it exists
PS hiring venues for a family get together, getting in a traiteur etc does seem to be quite popular in France so I’m sure your venture will do well. Good luck, really enjoy reading about your adventures
Your plans sound great. Even a non-attractive building can be significantly improved with planting climbers pots of flowers etc etc.
Only thing I would be careful is renting out to student groups - unless French students are significantly more well behaved than uk ones.
Only thing I would be careful is renting out to student groups - unless French students are significantly more well behaved than uk ones.
At around €3500-€4000 for a weekend I don’t think students will be able to afford it Grianan. There are plenty much lower cost options for the ‘yoot’, we’ve seen them, the sorts of places we used to have our young farmers meetings in back in the day. Barns with sawdust and dorm rooms with a dozen metal bunks.
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Yeah we are ready for it, as I mention above, the cost will prove prohibitive for 95% of the younger cohort, though there maybe the French equivalent of the ‘Hoorays’ making the odd booking. Think Boris and his chums in their full Bullingdon club pomp. We aren’t so worried for three reasons, one we don’t think the elite rich youth of Paris will consider our peasant/proletarian, out of the way outfit, two, the French youth are still, in general far better behaved and brought up than their increasingly feral UK equivalents and also still have a very different relationship with alcohol, and three, yes, if all else fails there will be chunky deposits, clear contracts and insurance.dawsey I was on my local council for two terms. One of the things we had to do (which I hated) was taking turns to handle bookings of the salle des fêtes - état des lieux in and out, showing how everything worked etc.
The only time we had problems were when we rented it out to young people. The mairie insisted that the renters provided a copy of their insurance ( don’t know which? Household one?) which provided cover if they caused any damage.
One Sunday morning I went to do the check out. Place smelt of cleaning products, looked spick and span. Checked the toilets - no urinal. They had broken it clean off the wall and hidden it, in the hope that I’d do a quick check and not notice
Luckily detailed état des lieux and this insurance are quite standard in France, so hopefully you won’t need it but good to know it exists
PS hiring venues for a family get together, getting in a traiteur etc does seem to be quite popular in France so I’m sure your venture will do well. Good luck, really enjoy reading about your adventures
Somehow the majority of French youth just don’t faze me. Sure there are certain profiles to watch out for, such as dealer gangs and hookers, or large squads of military guys (esp post demob or leave and after R&R) who are all quite capable of trashing the place. We do have a little experience, Bea ran our airbnb in the UK. I reviewed all bookings and the only one I missed was a bunch of young Saudis working at their embassy in London who rocked up at our place with their brand new BMW M6 and S class cabrios and team of hooker girlfriends and about a kilo of charlie all of which which they appeared to burn through in 40hrs. We identified and declined the outfit that wanted to make a porn film though (I wasn’t bothered but Bea wasn’t keen, can’t blame her, she was the one doing the sheets) and all the other sneaky attempts at parties in our place. After 5 years Bea had a 99.9% Airbnb feedback score, quite impressive.
Last summer I had some misgivings when a group of French students in tents came on to pitches close to me for a few nights. They were celebrating the end of exams. Very nice, considerate and well-behaved. Such a contrast to the student yobbos who lived next door in England in a BTL and made life such hell I had to move house.
French schoolkids on organised camping trips are also amazingly well-behaved.
French schoolkids on organised camping trips are also amazingly well-behaved.
dawsey It’s an ugly prison from the outside, but the facilities on the inside are very nice. Lots of space and purpose designed as a giant house for a highly sociable and close family of 30 people. It just needs finishing (more rooms), modernising in terms of decoration, ie having life breathed into it, it looks a bit like a hospital.
Sounds to be like as soon as it's yours you need to get some planting done.
It's quite surprising what you can screen off with some cleverly planted trees,
There is wonderful stuff called Virginia Creaper which you can grow up walls very fast and unlike European Ivy, it wont damage the walls.
I would recommend planting it in large (buried) planters (dustbins) as it will spread if it's allowed to.
Although, unlike European Ivy, it's fairly easy to eradicate if/when you need to.
I managed to 'hide' two sides an entire warehouse using Virginia Creaper.
20 years later it's still covered and has not spread from the original planting sites (sewer pipes buried vertically)
It just needs trimming back every winter to ensure it does not spread to the roof.
Sounds to be like as soon as it's yours you need to get some planting done.
It's quite surprising what you can screen off with some cleverly planted trees,
There is wonderful stuff called Virginia Creaper which you can grow up walls very fast and unlike European Ivy, it wont damage the walls.
I would recommend planting it in large (buried) planters (dustbins) as it will spread if it's allowed to.
Although, unlike European Ivy, it's fairly easy to eradicate if/when you need to.
I managed to 'hide' two sides an entire warehouse using Virginia Creaper.
20 years later it's still covered and has not spread from the original planting sites (sewer pipes buried vertically)
It just needs trimming back every winter to ensure it does not spread to the roof.
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Thanks for that, I honestly didn't realise thick, uneducated people could use an item of food and confuse it? 'Gammon' (which is my favourite cut of meat, grilled topped with an egg or slice of pineapple), to be used as a derogatory term! Another school day! Yay!
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Gammon is an excellent insult.Thanks for that, I honestly didn't realise thick, uneducated people could use such an easily confused item like 'Gammon' (which is my favourite cut of meat, grilled topped with an egg or slice of pineapple), as a derogatory term! Another school day! Yay!
It manages to be both ageist, a little racist (you've got to be flushed pink, right), classist, and it's calling you a pig!
Boomer tish
I agree! Very child like term!
'Boomer Tish' is that another made up term?
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There’s no need, it’s all already done. The owners are very green fingered and did all as you suggest 15yrs ago. Now it’s all very mature and no doubt very lovely in the summer. Every wall is absolutely festooned with red roses, purple wisteria, clematis, and yes there’s some Virgina Creeper. I guess I meant to say there are too few windows, these are just barn conversions, and one is very big and imposing, near 100ft long, with its little tower it looks a bit like a prison (in winter).
I'm just being silly.
Boomer is an old fart.
Boom tish is the sound effect after a feeble joke.
Boomer tish is the sound effect after an old fart makes a feeble joke.
Perhaps there is a winter market for you ?
I'm sure French prisons are as overcrowded at UK ones.
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