Full time through winter in search of new life

[chaser]

When I read the comment of yourself being " convinced", and having read this missive from start to finish, I must say that I was very surprised at that opinion formed by the original poster.
This was not my opinion taken from yours and others opinions and posts.
Far from it.
Taking the written word at face value without consideration for inflection or tonal application can often lead to misunderstanding and I sincerely hope that Mr.Dawsey is not being blinkered by an idealism which could all end in a horrible, miserable financial mess, unfortunately.
But , for his sake, I sincerely hope not.
It will take a big man at this stage to plow on regardless, throw caution to the wind and try and make a fist of this and his dream of owning and running a campsite, especially after all the hoops and obstacles he has documented in detail that have thwarted progress so far.
However, it will take an even bigger man to walk away at this 11th hour, realise the potential shortcomings in reality, and save face in the reality of this possible vanity project.
I am sorry if my opinions are not to some peoples liking, but they are my opinions only.
I am not doing this project, he is.
I am not risk averse. Not in todays financial markets or at my time in life.
I still wish Mr.Dawsey and his partner all the best in whatever direction they decide to paddle their canoe.

This is almost word for word what I have been trying to say from the beginning.
It's ok for folks on here saying, go for it, it's a dream ,take the risk and whatever, obviously it will be a lot of people's dream on here, it would have possibly been mine forty years ago, but it's not their money and toil going into this one.
He hasn't got a good word for it yet he is talking of throwing 3 million of borrowed money at it.
The mind boggles.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

This is almost word for word what I have been trying to say from the beginning.
It's ok for folks on here saying, go for it, it's a dream ,take the risk and whatever, obviously it will be a lot of people's dream on here, it would have possibly been mine forty years ago, but it's not their money and toil going into this one.
He hasn't got a good word for it yet he is talking of throwing 3 million of borrowed money at it.
The mind boggles.

Absolutely.
But how on earth do you raise that sort of security for such a large financial burden?
Don't know what financial assets Mr. Dawsey had, or has, and don't wish to know, but on his profile it states unemployed.
I have no issues with persons who are unwaged and self funding, but I am sure financial institutions will have.
And IF the collateral is so great to be able to afford the security for the borrowings, why borrow in the first place.
Nothing seems to add up in my mind, but, I wish them both no harm.
I just hope they are not deluding themselves and perhaps need to take a serious reality check at the situation.
I would much sooner be a big fish in a little pond, than a little fish in a big pond.
Lots and lots of sharks!

 

[chaser]

Absolutely.
But how on earth do you raise that sort of security for such a large financial burden?
Don't know what financial assets Mr. Dawsey had, or has, and don't wish to know, but on his profile it states unemployed.
I have no issues with persons who are unwaged and self funding, but I am sure financial institutions will have.
And IF the collateral is so great to be able to afford the security for the borrowings, why borrow in the first place.
Nothing seems to add up in my mind, but, I wish them both no harm.
I just hope they are not deluding themselves and perhaps need to take a serious reality check at the situation.
I would much sooner be a big fish in a little pond, than a little fish in a big pond.
Lots and lots of sharks!

Nothing adds up, that is why I can't completely convince myself it's not a wind up.

 

[dawsey]

It’s a relief to be back to being ‘deluded’ today having been a (hard) ‘businessman’ yesterday

It is also interesting that the project can be described as a ‘vanity project’.

In anything significant in life there’s the little picture, the detail, the warts and all here and now, then there’s the big picture. The sunlit uplands of the myriad possible futures, which can be very sunlit indeed if the potential exists and people are prepared to put their shoulder to the wheel.

I am a big picture person who sees future potential. That’s about the measure of it. I’ve also stated the broad numbers and twice corrected inaccuracies when numbers are subsequently cited, I won’t be doing it again…

 

[dawsey]

He hasn't got a good word for it

I do have good words. I’ve said it could be magical (yes, whatever that means), and it has significant potential, far beyond all other sites we have seen. I’ve also said it has a limitless stream of new customers and can be highly diversified. It is why we agreed to buy the place despite all the current problems, which are in the main down to the way it is currently managed and the near total lack of maintenance and investment. Capacity is down this year, yes, but the problems I have outlined do not include an inability to generate very significant turnover, even if this years return to pre covid activity becomes the new baseline or ‘normal’ that we would have to build on. It simply means that (in my view) the value of this continuously viable business requires adjustment.

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[chaser]

It’s a relief to be back to being ‘deluded’ today having been a (hard) ‘businessman’ yesterday

It is also interesting that the project can be described as a ‘vanity project’.

In anything significant in life there’s the little picture, the detail, the warts and all here and now, then there’s the big picture. The sunlit uplands of the myriad possible futures, which can be very sunlit indeed if the potential exists and people are prepared to put their shoulder to the wheel.

I am a big picture person who sees future potential. That’s about the measure of it. I’ve also stated the broad numbers and twice corrected inaccuracies when numbers are subsequently cited, I won’t be doing it again…

Then along come CCP with a couple of nearby sites and all your passing trade will be gone..

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

I am a big picture person who sees future potential

I’m like that with houses, can see the end product and just go for it.
Most people have no vision of the end product so are in a negative mode straight away.

Better to have tried and failed then to have not tried is my way of thinking

 

[dawsey]

Then along come CCP with a couple of nearby sites and all your passing trade will be gone..

That’s a very narrow perspective.. Yes, maybe if the worst happened with another CCP (there is already one nearby, btw… ) then, maybe, 5-10% of our possible clients, the retirees in fully equipped motor homes who just want somewhere cheap n cheerful, maybe would use it. For the other 95% of campers and glampers, the caravanners, the families, the walkers, cyclists and motorcyclists with tents, the cars with trailer tents, the VW buses, the bubble tent ‘atypical’ glampers and all the static-caravan vacationers, and, of course all of those ‘camping-caristes’ who do not place an ‘above all’ premium on price, no, they would continue to want and need a full-fat campsite even if one of those glorified car parks opened right next door…

Naked pitch ‘Touring’ turnover is 25% of income. If it reduces by 5% with a brand new CCP on our doorstep, it’s a 1% top line hit. I’m not sure we would even notice.

We’d very much welcome all the new customers to the restaurant though..

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Better to have tried and failed then to have not tried is my way of thinking

And been financially ruined?
Or worse, Bankrupt?
I have bought many houses, made money on them all, and financed well within realistic boundaries with good safety margins built in.
I know my limits and realistic achievements.
But, each to their own.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

For the other 95% of campers and glampers, the caravanners, the families, the walkers, cyclists and motorcyclists with tents, the cars with trailer tents, the VW buses, the bubble tent ‘atypical’ glampers and all the static-caravan vacationers, and, of course all of those ‘camping-caristes’ who do not place an ‘above all’ premium on price, no, they would continue to want and need a full-fat campsite even if one of those glorified car parks opened right next door…

But I didn't think that was your demographic.
I was under the impression yours was to be a " through stop" one-night passing place.
From your description, there does not seem to be much in the way of attractions locally other than a Toilet Roll factory and an industrial estate.
It's not near the coast, or any other town like facilities.
Do you seriously think that visitors to your site would want to spend their entire vacation on it, without venturing out once to any local attractions, should they exist?
This is very similar to the "all inclusive"
model of a lot of European and Eastern Med holidays, and to keep your clientelle
enticed to stay on site all the time you will need more than a pool.
More like something akin to Alton Towers, Legoland and a large shopping outlet with bars and cafes.
Just my thoughts, but I know that I would not want that type of holiday facilities, but neither would I want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with extremely limited facilities.
Just my thoughts.

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[dawsey]

But I didn't think that was your demographic.
I was under the impression yours was to be a " through stop" one-night passing place.
From your description, there does not seem to be much in the way of attractions locally other than a Toilet Roll factory and an industrial estate.
It's not near the coast, or any other town like facilities.
Do you seriously think that visitors to your site would want to spend their entire vacation on it, without venturing out once to any local attractions, should they exist?
This is very similar to the "all inclusive"
model of a lot of European and Eastern Med holidays, and to keep your clientelle
enticed to stay on site all the time you will need more than a pool.
More like something akin to Alton Towers, Legoland and a large shopping outlet with bars and cafes.
Just my thoughts, but I know that I would not want that type of holiday facilities, but neither would I want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with extremely limited facilities.
Just my thoughts.

The second biggest theme park in France is just up the road…..

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

And been financially ruined?
Or worse, Bankrupt?
I have bought many houses, made money on them all, and financed well within realistic boundaries with good safety margins built in.
I know my limits and realistic achievements.
But, each to their own.

The OP does not come across to me as a dummy who is just diving into paying out €m, he knows more than anyone if it will stack up for him and good luck for trying, who are we to keep giving him negative feedback when he has obviously done his homework and some.

 

[StephandJohn]

Ignore the naysayers Dawsey. I was a bit dubious but you've obviously worked out what you can and can't do and have a final back stop Good luck with the new negotiations.

 

[CazPaul]

I think you’re crazy but I’ve said that about other ventures and been proved wrong.

I still say “ Borrow all the money you can then vanish into thin air, go to Brazil or somewhere like Mr Biggs did, live the high life for 20 years then come back to face the music when you’re old and knackered”

That way you’ll get 20 years of pleasure out of life instead of 20 years of pain if you do it

 

[Riverbankannie]

The OP does not come across to me as a dummy who is just diving into paying out €m, he knows more than anyone if it will stack up for him and good luck for trying, who are we to keep giving him negative feedback when he has obviously done his homework and some.

Well said.

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[Langtoftlad]

I would be giving him a lamb chop and running in the other .

Lamb chop

would always build a modern guy‘

Effigy of the current owner

 

[SmithsInFrance]

Don't often post, but enthralled by dawsey's adventure. We have lived in the area for 20 years and are currently fulltiming awaiting the completion of a new house, still in the area, half hour from Poitiers.

Won't comment on the finances etc except to say in the current climate I thought the interest rate in the compromis was a bit optimistic, but of course that really plays in your favour as it can offer a get-out if you wanted
Also impressed that you are going into this realistically about how much you need - have seen too many Brits over the years come over seduced by a cheap property but no financial planning or adequate resources to create/maintain a business and lifestyle.

Fulltiming in the area over the summer period in a combination of sites and aires has been very illuminating and I think you have very cleverly identified a substantial niche market of people passing through. Families, couples, singles on cycle and tent holidays - so many of them for a start, stop for a night but then buy a drink/ice cream/meal. Then stay another or even two if grown ups can do some washing, kids in pool and everyone having a rest.

In both the sites we have stayed at locally, the majority of people have only stayed overnight or for a few nights. And one is on the edge of a nice town, the other a pretty rural village. Both have pool, hot showers, washing machine and a bar/restaurant.

You are definitely ideally located for all those heading west, south west and south from UK, but also French, northern Europe, Germans etc. That's a substantial number of people! And if you are tugging, got a vehicle full of kids, whatever, and you've found a good stopover on the way down with hot showers and clean loos, then don't make life hard for yourself - stop there on the way home too!

You've mentioned the location near the Loire valley and France's second largest theme park, but there's another one a little bit further away too...

Finally, the toilet roll factory tour - that might actually appeal to quite a lot of people and it's something a bit different. Our tourist office organised a tour of a local factory that makes cardboard boxes a few years ago. It was very interesting and very well attended

Good luck dawsey, I'm sure you will get it right whatever you decide

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

The OP does not come across to me as a dummy who is just diving into paying out €m, he knows more than anyone if it will stack up for him and good luck for trying, who are we to keep giving him negative feedback when he has obviously done his homework and some.

A collection of differing opinions, and they are just that, Opinions of each individual, is a healthy addition to any decision making process which will hopefully allow the OP to consider even MORE differing angles before making a final decision.
It now transpires that a major theme park is just up the road from this potential site.
Don't think that was mentioned in the question of what the area has to offer.
And I am NOT treating the OP as a dummy, far from it, and I have expressed my sincere well wishes to both He and his Partner throughout this interaction and hopimg the outcome is favourable to them in whatever they do.
If the OP wasn't prepared for comment, reaction,discussion and opinion on his potential business opportunity, why post on a forum in the first place?

 

[Just smiffy]

A toilet roll factory tour…. I would go for that, it’s right up my back alley….

 

[dawsey]

Don't often post, but enthralled by dawsey's adventure. I thought the interest rate in the compromis was a bit optimistic, but of course that really plays in your favour as it can offer a get-out if you wanted

It wasn’t optimistic by accident.. neither was the refusal to pay any kind of deposit

I think you have very cleverly identified a substantial niche market of people passing through.

Thanks

You've mentioned the location near the Loire valley and France's second largest theme park, but there's another one a little bit further away too...

You mean the Puy du Fou? Once voted best theme park in the world and often described as Frances best kept secret? It’s not even the only one…

All those loads of folk who love medieval battle re-enactments..

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[SmithsInFrance]

It wasn’t optimistic by accident.. neither was the refusal to pay any kind of deposit



Thanks


You mean the Puy du Fou? Once voted best theme park in the world and often described as Frances best kept secret? It’s not even the only one…

All those loads of folk who love medieval battle re-enactments..

Yes Puy du Fou, France is too good at keeping their treasures secret sigh.

I kinda thought the interest rate was strategic, you’ve clearly got a business head, just what this project needs

 

[Swozer]

That’s a very narrow perspective.. Yes, maybe if the worst happened with another CCP (there is already one nearby, btw… ) then, maybe, 5-10% of our possible clients, the retirees in fully equipped motor homes who just want somewhere cheap n cheerful, maybe would use it. For the other 95% of campers and glampers, the caravanners, the families, the walkers, cyclists and motorcyclists with tents, the cars with trailer tents, the VW buses, the bubble tent ‘atypical’ glampers and all the static-caravan vacationers, and, of course all of those ‘camping-caristes’ who do not place an ‘above all’ premium on price, no, they would continue to want and need a full-fat campsite even if one of those glorified car parks opened right next door…

Naked pitch ‘Touring’ turnover is 25% of income. If it reduces by 5% with a brand new CCP on our doorstep, it’s a 1% top line hit. I’m not sure we would even notice.

We’d very much welcome all the new customers to the restaurant though..

We stayed at the CCP to the south of you in March 22. Very small site - not much to really recommend it, apart from a local circular walk. It came at the end of our second day's drive to Spain, so you would be in that market for Brits too. We try not to rush the drive - happy to stay for 2-3 nights if the pitch is pleasant and a pool might be available...You've also got me reading Tissue World Magazine. Apparently your toilet roll factory can produce 60,000 tonnes per year (tpy); that's quite a lot of rolls I'd imagine. Unless tpy means something else.

 

[dawsey]

We stayed at the CCP to the south of you in March 22. Very small site - not much to really recommend it, apart from a local circular walk. It came at the end of our second day's drive to Spain, so you would be in that market for Brits too. We try not to rush the drive - happy to stay for 2-3 nights if the pitch is pleasant and a pool might be available...You've also got me reading Tissue World Magazine. Apparently your toilet roll factory can produce 60,000 tonnes per year (tpy); that's quite a lot of rolls I'd imagine. Unless tpy means something else.

Ha - maybe one day we will find out on ‘Have I Got News For You’.

We don’t use toilet paper in the van. It does make emptying the cassette so much more straightforward. No blockages and then sudden rushes complete with lots of splash back. I might start a thread on the matter…

 

[suavecarve]

Pay attention at the back. It has.

See the posts from a couple of weeks ago. The asbestos WC cabin in the photos would definitely be going. Less problematic is the Asbestos boiler flue. Trivial stuff, as despite what the Health and safety people say, not all asbestos was created equal. The only lead problem highlighted in the reports was in the ancient paint flaking off the orangerie frame.

Have you checked the lead since the travellers left ? (I know it was paint flake but they might have taken it)

 

[dawsey]

The OP does not come across to me as a dummy….

Well said.

Thanks guys. To be honest I’ve been called far worse in my time, right now I think I’d settle for being a Dummy

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[Reallyretired]

Then along come CCP with a couple of nearby sites and all your passing trade will be gone..

I don't think CCP have any new sites, they just take over the operation of existing municipals/aires.
If the sites aren't there locally I don't think that will be a problem.

 

[MisterB]

Thanks guys. To be honest I’ve been called far worse in my time, right now I think I’d settle for being a Dummy

Have a glass of wine and relax, you've got a big few days in front of you as I doubt the current owner will jump at any offer. It might even take him a few days to get up off the floor lol! From what I've read, you're certainly not going to make any rash decisions blinkered by your views in what the site could be, with some TLC

 

[Riverbankannie]

Some come to go to futuroscope just up the road but that’s about it.

and having read this missive from start to finish,

It now transpires that a major theme park is just up the road from this potential site.
Don't think that was mentioned in the question of what the area has to offer.

He did, but it was somewhere along the middle of the thread.

 

[Minxy]

Having not done it for about 7 years we won’t say who the ‘effigy’ we would absolutely burn atop our bonfire is going to be on this forum for fear of offending half the readers

I'm betting it's a effigy of a certain UK person with the initials NF ...

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

He did, but it was somewhere along the middle of the thread.

Read the thread on and off from December last year to present day, so obviously forgot about this aspect.
Have been to bed since then.
Sorry.
Apologies.
Must try harder.

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