French Government unveils plan to extend use of private radar cars following trial in Normandy

[filopastry]

@moulin 87 you'll not change those with the views that the French are "after them" we have frequent radar traps here, and as your neck of the woods, the Brits are, this time of the year, very very rare. So why are they mounting their campaigns now, simples ... it's to perfect their skills ready for the huge influx of unwary Brits in the summer.

Tourism suffering etc etc one has to ask out of which box of cornflakes do some folks receive their wisdoms.

@G7UXG I have to agree with you, the ability of the French to run off a perfectly straight road is only surpassed by their inability to maintain a reasonable distance between vehicles or respect the speed limits. One of my French friends as huffed and puffed even more than many on here regards the 80kph limit, I reminded him, when the limit was 90kph he and many others never respected the limit so what difference, you were speeding then, you are speeding now

 

[keithchesterfield2]

@moulin 87 you'll not change those with the views that the French are "after them" we have frequent radar traps here, and as your neck of the woods, the Brits are, this time of the year, very very rare. So why are they mounting their campaigns now, simples ... it's to perfect their skills ready for the huge influx of unwary Brits in the summer.

Tourism suffering etc etc one has to ask out of which box of cornflakes do some folks receive their wisdoms.

@G7UXG I have to agree with you, the ability of the French to run off a perfectly straight road is only surpassed by their inability to maintain a reasonable distance between vehicles or respect the speed limits. One of my French friends as huffed and puffed even more than many on here regards the 80kph limit, I reminded him, when the limit was 90kph he and many others never respected the limit so what difference, you were speeding then, you are speeding now

Wise words.

Times might have changed but French drivers rarely improve.

Back in the dark ages, around the mid 1960s, when we first drove in France we would be overtaken by 2CVs with their engines almost blowing up as they passed us - it seemed to be an 'honour' mindset to pass a GB registered car - and then they'd turn off the road 100m after passing us.
I don't think they've improved or altered that attitude - recent trips round France seem to confirm it to me.
But at least they have the decency to 'flash' their headlights if they spot a radar trap or Gendarmes lying in wait for us.
I love France......

 

[EX51SSS]

But at least they have the decency to 'flash' their headlights if they spot a radar trap or Gendarmes lying in wait for us.

As they do in this country

 

[keithchesterfield2]

As they do in this country

You have Gendarmes in North Manchester ?

 

[Fenman]

Back in the dark ages, around the mid 1960s, when we first drove in France we would be overtaken by 2CVs with their engines almost blowing up as they passed us - it seemed to be an 'honour' mindset to pass a GB registered car - and then they'd turn off the road 100m after passing us.
I don't think they've improved or altered that attitude - recent trips round France seem to confirm it to me.

Yes the badge of honour mentality still seems to apply and I find it happens more in the north of France than our bit.

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[filopastry]

@keithchesterfield2 I used to believe that the crazy overtaking antics of the French was due to the GB reg .... not so ... I have for the last ten years driven numerous French reg vehicles and experienced the same games, they do it because they are French ... no other reason ... it's in their mindset. When they come up close behind, pull out at the last second whoosh by pull in front and then slow down to the same speed, that's because that's how they are trained to drive. Screech up to junctions and hit the brakes at the last minute scaring the beezeesus out of me on the main road, again, their training. I have frequently said to my afor mentioned French friends they are a nation of motorized schizophrenics, they are polite and courteous .... till ... they turn the key, the engine revs climb do a dizzy scream and at the horns erupt from their heads, eyes turn red and they have to be in front ... no matter .... they arrive, turn of the ignition, the revs die away and the horns recede eyes turning their original colour and a smile spreads across their face .... they are bloody crackers. BUT, make a mistake on the road, cut them up ... or worse ... drive too slowly ... and you may receive a toot, a middle finger salute (equal to our two finger) a standard French shoulder shrug and they are on their way. Unlike many parts of GB where a minor error may justify violence against the person or vehicle to a disproportionate degree. God bless the French, for they know not what they do.

 

[EX51SSS]

You have Gendarmes in North Manchester ?

Yep. Quite a few in Prestwich

 

[PeteH]

The French are not the only country with a habit of driving too close, that happens here, (a lot) and in the USA, Spain, (where if you double park and put the 4ways on you become invisible?). No one countries Drivers can claim the Tailgating Top prize IMV.!

 

[filopastry]

@PeteH I hear the Italians and Maltese are bumper huggers

 

[gus-lopez]

Towns with a red bordered name sign denote the start of a 50kph limit,

You learn something new every day! what's easier than a sign that everyone can understand.

Just spent 5 days at Peterborough and the main roads near there which you expect to be national speed limit I.e. 60mph or 70mph if dual carriage way are in fact 50mph but there seem to be a distinct lack of repeater signs which I thought was the law for any speed limit other than 30, 60 or 70mph.

Have I missed something?

Yes it is to generate revenue.

They have changed the need for repeater signs because too many people were beating the speeding ticket on that ground.

Yes, most places you haven't a clue what the limit is.Designed to generate income.

The "private radar cars" have existed in France for years, just like in the UK. They are not "private cars" but vehicles that are equipped with radars that look out through small openings, not easy to detect, they have no markings ... just like in the UK. If one does not know the speed limit on a specific section of road I would suggest your are not taking sufficient care. The number of cameras, speed and anpr, fixed, in marked and unmarked police cars as well as HGVs in the UK .... and you obsess about France. Know the speed limits, drive within them or risk the penalties, if one does not agree with specific rules and there system of application in a given country .... don't go there ... one is not obliged. Good grief Penfold !!!!

Yes but in the Uk with a foreign registration you aren't going to be sent a fine when you return home as the Uk won't fine the owner.

gs so my answer to that is the same . I stay away .

Unfortunately though it has to be driven through to get to the ferry ports.

Having just had 3 kids pass their driving test in recent years no they don't. They teach them to drive at an appropriate speed for the traffic conditions.

Oh yes they do.30mph in a 40 limit will get you failed for "failing to keep up with the traffic"

Maybe the answer is drive at the lower limit unless its clearly signed higher there will be no penalties for being under the limit

Now taking this to the extreme if everyone did that they would have to lower the limits again & again to generate income. A bit like people all changing to water meters from rateable value. The price has to go up

Speed limits in France are broadly similar to those in the UK and yet the death rate on their roads is almost twice that on UK roads.

There’s a reason for that. It’s not how fast your going that kills... it’s how quickly you stop.

The French should perhaps concentrate their efforts on driver education rather than lowering speed limits and trying to rigorously enforce them.

No they should concentrate on the drunks which is what the problem is & always has been. Then when they get caught they buy a 'micro car sin carnet' which in France allows them to continue driving drunk but at a far slower speed.

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[gus-lopez]

In Spain they use helicopters to check speeding vehicles

Only 5. cost a lot. although easy to move from place to place.
If you ever manage to spot one, usually by the sun reflecting off it, it is fascinating to see as they are computer controlled & absolutely stationary. They use gps to maintain position & detect the speed & require no type of markings on the roads whatsoever.
'Pegasus' the system is called.Named after the mythical winged stallion.
Can read a number plate 300m high at a distance of 1km of a vehicle travelling at up to 225mph.

 

[Portland]

We had one of these jokers pass us when going through Tours, it was a red clio and cut in front of us then proceeded to pull away and then decelerate ( no brake lights) I suspect this would make us seem to be going faster than we were, however we spotted the camera and dropped back to let traffic come between us. He then pulled out and moved on to some other client I suspect. Nasty Hey

 

[GWAYGWAY]

i don’t know where this obsession comes from with French speed limits. They are clearly signed at the start and finish of each limit. Towns with a red bordered name sign denote the start of a 50kph limit, single carriageway roads are 80, speed changes are clearly signed. If you want to practice driving on a road with lots of speed changes before coming to France, drive along Alkham Valley Road between Temple Ewell ( just outside Dover) towards Folkestone. I think there’s more speed changes on that road than most French roads.
Once you’ve mastered that, France will be a doddle!

I live at the end of that road and everytime I drive to Folkestone along it I find the LIMIT HAS MOVED, a few yards a few hundred yards or completely different from the previous time 30 40 50 40 30 40 50 60 50 all in a 4.5 mile road it is exactly like some of the French roads are set up but they have junction limits as well to confound you properly. We do not have their adverse camber roundabouts they can stick up in a week or so it seems. I am surpirised there are not overturned lorries on every one of them.

 

[filopastry]

We do not have their adverse camber roundabouts they can stick up in a week or so it seems. I am surpirised there are not overturned lorries on every one of them.

You must be referring to a different France to the one in which I live. "In a week or so" really ..... have you seen the speed at which many French work. The time they take to create a roundabout a fair team could resurface the M25.

No they should concentrate on the drunks which is what the problem is & always has been. Then when they get caught they buy a 'micro car sin carnet' which in France allows them to continue driving drunk but at a far slower speed.

In France these small no licence required car are called "sans permit" maximum speed is supposed to be 50kph but it has been know for them to have the limiter altered. Doesn't "allow" them to drink drive, they are still subject to all the rules of the road. The price of these little machines is similar to a Mini, so not cheap, and I believe the insurance is also a bit of a stinger. Many of these vehicles are driven by old folk who have never had a licence.

 

[filopastry]

Ooops !! made a boo boo. "Sans permis" (2 seater) cars cannot be driven by all without a licence. If born after 1988 then one must pass a permit "AM" which includes a training period of 7 hours. They are "rated" at 45kph, mon oeil, (French phrase literally "my eye" meaning similar to "you've got to be kidding") I've seen these little three cylinder two stroke diesel powered beasties going much quicker.

81% of "san permis" owners have never taken or had a driving licence
10% have lost their licence for one reason or another, not only drink driving.
9% have failed a driving test and chose to drive a sans permis.

Not exactly the image that may be portrayed by some. Data here for those who prefer.
http://www.palais-de-la-voiture.com...age-des-vieux-et-alcooliques-notre-essai.html

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[gus-lopez]

I live at the end of that road and everytime I drive to Folkestone along it I find the LIMIT HAS MOVED, a few yards a few hundred yards or completely different from the previous time 30 40 50 40 30 40 50 60 50 all in a 4.5 mile road it is exactly like some of the French roads are set up but they have junction limits as well to confound you properly.

^
Yes I fully agree with you & it is just scamming after the original 'op stack' . Just a revenue generator. I gave up bothering after the first year. working on the "foreign plates" they can't be bothered to find out who was driving.

 

[Tea Bag]

speed for the traffic conditions.

Hi.
And be "Failed" for failing to make proper road progress ? ........ So. Driving to he limits? The speedo is reading fast ? The warning lights read "Faster" on the Lamp post display sets ? No wonder people get fined for speeding by +2 MPH.
I love the drivers who do 40MPH in the 30 zones and................40mph in the 50 zones. Perhaps thats the answer

 

[PeteH]

Bearing in mind the current "limits" where set when the most popular car was the Austin 7 / Morris 8, Circa 24bhp and rod or cable braking systems, sometimes only on the rear wheels.! 0-50 (max) in 2 weeks, and stopping distance largely dependant on throwing out a heavy weight on an anchor chain?.

One therefore might be excused for thinking that in 2019, it just might be possible to be doing more than 30mph and still be far safer!.

 

[2x2camper]

Bearing in mind the current "limits" where set when the most popular car was the Austin 7 / Morris 8, Circa 24bhp and rod or cable braking systems, sometimes only on the rear wheels.! 0-50 (max) in 2 weeks, and stopping distance largely dependant on throwing out a heavy weight on an anchor chain?.

One therefore might be excused for thinking that in 2019, it just might be possible to be doing more than 30mph and still be far safer!.

As usual motorists only thinking about themselves and not other road users

 

[PeteH]

As usual motorists only thinking about themselves and not other road users

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[2x2camper]

??????????????????????

Just because you can do more than 30mph safer in a more modern vehicle it will still hurt another road user if you hit them. Such as a pedestrian, cyclist, horse etc

I am sure you wouldn't but motorists had a pretty regular habit of doing so

 

[PeteH]

Just because you can do more than 30mph safer in a more modern vehicle it will still hurt another road user if you hit them. Such as a pedestrian, cyclist, horse etc

I am sure you wouldn't but motorists had a pretty regular habit of doing so

I am sorry but my comment was aimed at the fact that the modern vehicle is NOT the same device that was the yardstick which prompted the choice of "limit". On an unrelated but similar theme, after many years like us all, The Dutch tried removing signage at junctions in one town, the accident rate actually went down!. From which one could prognosticate that the "motorist" is not actually the stupid, self obsessed cretin, Some people, and most Bureaucrats assume?

 

[gus-lopez]

From which one could prognosticate that the "motorist" is not actually the stupid, self obsessed cretin, Some people, and most Bureaucrats assume?

No but the pedestrians have got worse & we are expected to drive to save them from themselves.

 

[2x2camper]

No but the pedestrians have got worse & we are expected to drive to save them from themselves.

Why would you drive to kill them?

 

[jongood]

IMHO one of the biggest hazards on todays roads is people wearing headphones, particularly in urban areas where they wander round in complete oblivion to their surroundings.

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[filopastry]

@PeteH Whilst vehicles and their control systems have improved they are still guided by the Mk1 human inside with reaction times rapidly increasing with age at the same time vision reducing at the same or greater rate whilst all the time one says "I'm a good driver me"

 

[PeteH]

@PeteH Whilst vehicles and their control systems have improved they are still guided by the Mk1 human inside with reaction times rapidly increasing with age at the same time vision reducing at the same or greater rate whilst all the time one says "I'm a good driver me"

No. The responsible person, drives according to their ability and the road and environmental conditions prevailing at any one time. Or if you wish, in simple terms, There will be times when even 30mph is far too fast! under some conditions. It doesn't mean that the posted speed for that road is too high, just that a high proportion of "people" do not have the mental capacity to reason that out.

But of course the Bureaucratic view is that "ALL people need to be controlled". (Another reason why I voted the way I did in 2016) And cannot be trusted to think clearly for themselves.

 

[moulin 87]

But of course the Bureaucratic view is that "ALL people need to be controlled". (Another reason why I voted the way I did in 2016) And cannot be trusted to think clearly for themselves.

Having lived in the EU for the last 15 years, mainly France but also Spain I find the UK to be a very controlled society when I visit or read / listen to the news. Not because of the EU, but purely self inflicted.

The press is controlled by a few people with extreme views who hammer down on anybody who dares to disagree. Similarly striking and demonstrating are controlled by bureaucratic procedures to stifle free speech.

To the more mundane with more and more restrictions on parking, litter 'police', health and safety regulations, etc etc.

Brits have become a nation who love to be controlled, wrapped in a blanket, as long as they're not foreigners doing it...

 

[Emmit]

We're at a 'home from home' 5 van site in Haughton, Staffs (you ALL know the one) and yesterday, while waiting for Son No. 1 to pick us up I was waiting outside the gate which coincides with the start of the 30mph restriction.
There's a high hedge at this point and it occurred to me that a placed camera in a van would clear Staffs debt in about 10mins and the National Debt in about one session.
That's the problem. Some States, France would seem to be the latest are not allowing any latitude in a blatant money making scam.

I would suggest that the vast majority of drivers, even attempting to comply with limits by taking their foot off on seeing the signs will still get caught simply by the momentum of their vehicles.

 

[PeteH]

Brits have become a nation who love to be controlled, wrapped in a blanket, as long as they're not foreigners doing it...

That is because Foreign Blankets, are ALL enveloping, and take no mind of the individual. The vast majority of recent UK law, (the last 40+years) and the more "restrictive" of which are of EUSSR origins. UK Bureaucrat`s have joyfully jumped on that bandwagon, to enhance and create more "shiny bums on seats" and hence the more restrictive the UK has become, Few "home grown" regulations are as restrictive.

In my own field, we had some very sensible safety regulation for many years, which where "modified" under "EU rules" and became a logistical and Bureaucratic nightmare, I finished up doing far more "paperwork" and a lot less actual examinations. In the end it was the "paperwork" that figured to some extent in my decision to retire early

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